Maintaining Limited Size Leagues

Emberblast: 50 Fire/Fire blaster
Jessie Inferno: 50 Fire/SD scrapper
a wizard: 50 Rad/Sonic defender
The Nemesis Plothole: 50 StJ/Reg scrapper

Funny I didn't see it that way. He rattled on about being able to join ANY mission anytime.. Sure as long as you have the same contact you can get the exact same mission that I may be on and possible even enter the same door. But unless the team I am leadeing has less than 8 players and I specifically INVITE you there is no way to join a mission I am running from say Boreas in the RWZ. yeah there is an option in the LFG that says willing to join trial in progress and I suppose IF someone dc'd and a league dropped below the minimum one player MIGHT be invited into that trial.. But how often does that occur? I'd venture to say rarely Of course I am POSITIVE you'll say it happens all the time. Well guess what NOT on Virtue it doesn't.


as usual you miss the point.. I didnt ask how many time have you joined the Q and entered a trial winding up ON A TEAM. I asked you how many time have you.. JUST YOU ... entered the trial solo. No one else was there and you were free to roam around the map? before you start the massive evaluation let me tell you..NEVER because as you and others have already stated there is a set minimum number of players that have to join before the Q will teleport you into a BAF or LAM. NOW .. can you access the Hive or the RWZ as a solo player and go inside? YES. and you can roam around without any mission and do whatever you like.

Fail to see your point here? of course once a league froms everyone has to accept joining the Q to get inside. That's what the count down to 16 or 24 is.. players clicking the green button.


Apples and Oranges Snow. Yeah the LFG allows you to enter the Q solo but before you wind up onm the instance map and start battling Warworks you have been assigned to a team and a league. Sounds to me like grasping at straws to make your point.


I already discussed this above


As mentioned numerous times in this thread there is nothing in the TOS that states a team leader can't kick any player from any team.. the fact that the option exists to begin with proves that the Devs have no issue with it. To the best of my knowledge the only "TERMS" for running an Incarnate Trial are ..

All players must be 50 levels. From what I have seen and heard this doesn't even require those players to have run Mender Ramiel's arc and opened their Alpha slot. I have seen 50 levels with no Alpha in leagues.

Before entering the event a minimum number of players must join the team/leaque (and before you start up again this refers to the fact that once the Q assigns them to a specific trial they will be on a team once arriving inside the mission.. I have stated several times I KNOW players can join the QUEUE solo)

I don't know of any other terms that need to be met to begin a trial and don't recall seeing any pop up screen saying anything about "League MUST accept any and all players assigned by the LFG even if they don't want them on their team!"

Just because its a TRIAL doesn't mean a leader MUST accept anything he or she doesn't like. the same feature to KICK players exists during trials which, as I already stated, means the Devs and GMs have no issue with this situation. let me TRY to put this another way for you. TF, SF, Trial or regular mission .. you are the team leader and after a short period of time you realize a player that joined your PUG is basically sitting at the door stealing XP, INF, Recipe drops and salvage while the rest of the team actively participates in the mission. Now I am not talking a player that come on chat and says I have a RL phone call BRB and disappears for a bit.. I am talking they basically just sit there doing nothing. Your saying you'd let this player stay on your team mission after mission doing nothing to support the team rather than KICK him the heck out and recruit someone that will help? Or would you boot that player like the rest of us? Now I am NOT saying a player that enters the Q via the LFG is a slacker but if he TEAM leader only wants 14 players on his Lambda run to cut lag and only recruits that many and then by some miracle, since he is already well over the minimum, a 15th player shows up that has hindered the intent that leader had when he only recruited 14. There is nothing in TOS or in these mythical Terms of the Trial you describe that prevents that leader from kicking that player. Why should he keep someone he had no say in recruiting and toss out someone he actually did recruit?

You stated somewhere in this thread that you hoped a leader that kicked players was reported to the GMs and given a time out, so to speak, for his or her actions. I challenge you to TRY that and see how far you get. Since there is nothing in TOS prohibiting a leader from kicking a player or having to even explain WHY they kicked a player if challenged. I doubt you'd even get a GM to come back and reply. At best you might get an email explaining that no action was taken since the TOS was not violated in any way. Your argument is based solely on the rights of an individual player and they have rights its true. But every player has rights not just the ones that are too shy or that can't be bothered to go to the places where leagues are forming and actively join a league. If those players want to ensure they get into a trial all they need to do is hit the RWZ, POCKET D, CIMERORA, STUDIO 55, heck on Virtue we have even had league form up in the MIDNIGHTERS CLUB. ... and respond to the leaders andvertising BAF forming looking for 10 more! There is absolutely nothing stopping any of them from going to one of those places , or any place they like, and starting up their own league.

People like to SUCCEED not FAIL in this game. Joining the Q and being assigned to a random team of players that has no thought process involed in team make up ect. does not lead to a good shot at success. Building a solid league of 2 or 3 teams first and then entering the Q dramatically increases the chance for success which is way this has become the popular way to join these events. That league leader that spent X amount of time recruiting and buiulding as many as three well balanced teams to do a BAF has as much right to have things done the way he wants as any TF. SF or regular mission team leader does.. and JUST as much right to kick any player that doesn't follow instructions or jepordizes the success of the mission.. and no matter what you may think 2 or 3 extra players that were not invited and are now causing added lag is a perfectly legitimate reason since that lag may cause the trial to fail.

THIS. The more realistic thing that would happen. I agree.

hehehe no I thought the Sarcasm was cooked to perfection. BRAVO my compliments to the Chef!

Makes mental note..

1. log on and delete all friends from global and sever lists

2. Post note for team search.. "Willing to accept any invite. Yeah go ahead and blind invite me I have no standards at all."

3. Quit all 4 SGs I belong to and help run. explain to Leaders I can no longer be a part of an elitist organization that discriminates against the downtrodden. Wish them all well and ask that my prestige earned be donated to help catgirls that need a home (Apologizes to all cat girls LOL)

4. Hey what the heck I can earn XP and even Shards now anywhere so why bother ever leaving Atlas Park again. Just join one Sewer team after another and mindlessly kill Vahz, Lost and Hellions forever. If I hang out in PI all the time, or Grandville, someone may get the idea I am against 2 levels

Was that sarcasm to heavy on the sauce? heheh

You mean by putting some bad people in the Behavioral Adjustment Facility?

The question was how many times I entered the map without a Team. I did not have a team before soloing, and I was on a team of one when I finished loading into the map. To use your reasoning, I can't go anywhere without being on a team, even if it is just a team of one.

You can't invite someone to your team while in an incarnate trial.

Well, in beta about two dozen times before the developers put in the lower limits. The lower limit is an artificial limit put in place after the trials were. I'll be the first to admit that it isn't possible at this point though. However your question was if I could enter the map solo, and I did through the LFG system. I can still enter the trials without being on a team. That is the whole point of the LFG system. If you don't like that, I'd suggest that you PM one of the community reps or another redname to see if they'll change the system for you.

I could say the same thing about you. However it is very clear that you don't want a conversation.

The terms that the game will add players from the queue is abundantly clear as the game does it without your permission. Ignorance of the rules do not protect you from them.

That is implicit as the game puts them on your league.

If on a regular mission, I'd boot him after the mission was done. However it is unlikely that I'd ever be in that situation as I seldom do regular missions with people I don't know. I've never had to do that in my 75 months of playing.

On a TF, SF, or non-incarnate trial, it would depend on the person. People I know have gone AFK for large lengths of time. If it was someone I didn't know, I'd let the group decide then if they wanted the player gone, I'd let the player know and remove them from the team. It hasn't happened though, as most people that do come close to that stay outside the mission and get nothing for being AFK. I wouldn't kick 66% of the team for that. Instead I'd quit and find another group.

On an Incarnate trial, I'd let him door sit through the mission for the duration of the trial, I would put him on global ignore, and never invite him back to any league I run. During a trial I can't invite new players to the trial, and given that I'd have to be at the lower limits of the trial to have even the potential of a new player come in it would make zero difference to the trial whether they stay or go.

A non-entity can't hinder anything. At most they can be helpful to the success, at worst they have no effect.

What possible reason would a leader have to toss out someone they actually did recruit? Your hyperbole is funny. If the league leader recruits to a full league, everyone there is invited, if there isn't a full league there isn't any reason to kick someone that was invited.

That is a gross exaggeration, and you know it. Then again, your mind has already been made up on this.

The guy in question kicked two full teams of people off the league. Sixteen players kicked. What was left isn't 2 or 3 teams. That is 4-8 "invited" players depending on how many players entered the trial when it was below the minimum restriction. The developers pretty much said that you must be this tall to enter, and the little brat went in anyways.

Two or three extra players? I've seen, at most, 2 extra players from the queue. As far as two players causing lag, all I can say is that you are exaggerating your case to the point of being entirely ridiculous.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I actually logged. Since at that point that last thing I wanted to do was spend time with more of these people. Life is too short and too full to waste time, and I had already done that once that day.

Personally, I don't care so much about the team lock feature that is being crowed for. I enjoy this game a lot more when I play solo. But if I am "required" to team with the calm, astute, delightful people in this thread in order to progress my character, I would prefer to do it as simply as possible.

The LFG tool seems like an attempt on the devs to offer such of thing. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they intended exactly this thread.

It is still your want. You may have your varied, excellent and valid reasons, but you are not being forced to kick players. It is a choice.
No matter what CAPSLOCK argument you use.

So you're saying that you seldom play with people you don't know but you advocate the LFG system which may force other players to do trials with strangers? Wow...that's shallow.


Not true. Such a player might foil an MO attempt by inactivity. By not contributing they might also cause the trial to fail by lack of time where their contribution might have aided in success.


To me it comes down to people playing they way they want to play. The game was built around this idea. Several of the recent changes (notably the new Diff Sliders) are specifically designed to let players play the way they want.

Part of the problem is how inaccurate the wait times are in the LFG queue. If they accurately reflected how many people were waiting it would be a better indicator. The system can't predict how long the wait in the queue will be because it might go from 1 person listed with an hour estimated wait time to 8 because seven players suddenly join.

A more accurate way would be to list how many are waiting and how long since the first person queued up and the last person. If the difference in times is low and the minimum is nearly met then the player might elect to stay. If the difference is an hour and the last person queued up more than 30 minutes ago then the player might elect not to stay. Either way the player should have this information so he can make an informed choice. The current estimated wait time is useless.

And if I may say Snow you likely make a wonderful lawyer in RL. The way you split hairs over questions and use the letter rather than the intent of conversations is staggering.

I'm simply trying to avoid situations where my SG buddies and I want to run an all-SG event or whatever and we wind up with the odd man. The poor guy might have waited 30 minutes for a Trial and because he wound up on ours he might have missed a chance for one that was open to non-SG members or whatever.

It might also be useful if the Devs tracked how many players queued up for a trial, how long they waited and how many left versus getting into a trial. That way if only a tiny percentage of the playerbase uses the thing they might abandon it or at least not waste more time and resources on it.

No, I said I seldom do regular missions with strangers. I do TFs and trials with people I don't know all the time. Most of my time I do TFs, SFs, and Trials. When I do missions I tend to solo or group with 2-5 players that are my close friends. Nothing shallow, I just consider my regular missions my "quiet time" in the game.

A person not acting is neither contributing or aiding. They are a non-entity. Unless they actively go out of their way to disrupt the trial, then they will have zero effect on a premade league. If they do go out of their way to disrupt the trial, people on the league can file a petition against the offender.

And the developers, by automatically putting people in the queue on teams and forcing teams to use the queue to start the trials, are telling players that they expect players to realize that there isn't such a thing as a private league when it comes to these trials.

I fully agree, but that is a completely separate issue than controlling team size.

I'm a programming and web designer, not a lawyer. However narrowing down a process and reducing things to their basics is, in my opinion, a trait that both programmers and lawyers have.

As far as intent, the people are posting their intent for all to read. Their intent is to have private leagues, either by a lock or by kicking. People are so fixated on that intent that they refuse to see anything positive about the system as it is working.

Try this instead: plan on additional people joining you, if they don't then relax. If they do, treat it as an opportunity to meet someone new and have a potential new SG buddy. There is plenty of other content available if you absolutely must have a SG only event.

I suspect they are tracking that. I wouldn't hold out any hopes of them abandoning it though.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I dont understand your point/smilie.

Are you able to explain?

And let me guess you are such an outstanding player that you didn't ask to be placed on any of the larger teams so you could actually get Incarnate XP and stand a chance at getting a better reward table when the trial ended? So far the duration of the trial you stayed a SOLO one man team. The POINT was regardless of you hitting LFG and entering the queue solo once inside the trial you TEAMED up with people. Unless you just enjoy standing around watching other people have fun!


I'm curiuos do you always twist everything around to make your self look right? Everyone knows you CAN'T invite once inside the trial. Oh and you also can't invite once inside a TF sort of sounds like a same system is in place doesn't it. THE POINT was if I build a team for any purpose.. including just REGULAR MISSION ( so I make it CLEAR ENOUGH . those are ones that don't have anything to do with a TF or any TRIAL). It's my team and I have the right to invite OR not invite anyone I please. And I really hate to rain on your parade but the same is true of a Task Force and a trial (including the Incarnate ones)


Well NEWS FLASH Snow we are not talking about Beta. We are talking in game LIVE as in right now. But you just keep right on clinging to that tiny little thread you have as a life line and claim that you entered the LFG solo and when you arrived in the trial you were a team of one SO you entered the trial SOLO. Now CRASH that was the sound of it breaking. If at least 11 other players on OTHER teams weren't on that same map for the purpose of running a trial for IXP and rewards is there any possible way you could be inside? NO BECAUSE THE BAF TRIAL HAS A LIMIT OF A MINIMUM OF 12 PLAYERS. Oh and frankly if you consider yourself a team of one during an event that requires 12 people to even have a chance at success I am very glad we play on different servers.


Don't think I'll even respond to that one since you don't converse you dictate to anyone that doesn't blindly agree with you what YOU think they should THINK.


And again show me anywhere that these so called terms of your are spelled out by anyone? Even entering the Q screen and clicking on each choice which brings up a brief description all it says is players must be level 50 and a minimum of 12 (BAF) or 8 (LAM) must be available for a trial to begin. WHICH by the way .. except in your mind means it is completely impossible to end up inside a BAF or LAM trial map unless those minimums are met.. you can THINK what you like but your part of an 8 or 12 man team or you are still outside looking in

Interesting so you would boot a player that wasn't holding up his end? Even more interesting since the few here that agree with you seem to view private leagues as elitists and being prejudice yet you almost never in 75 months of play have teamed with anyone but friends. And yet you see no problem in telling the rest of US that we can't decide who we want to team with.

And after the trial was over I'd one star you and and make sure I never teamed with you again for letting a jerk sit at the entrance and grab up IXP, INF and potential salvage and recipe drops while I was out helping take out ADDS, battling AVS, and helping prevent escapees from walking out that same front door. If it was a Lambda I might even quit the trial and find another team. When I am playing a squishy character and getting multiple trips to the hospital trying to find the grenades and acids no way I'd put up with a team mate sitting outside waiting for us to finish and I sure wouldn't team with the leader that let him.


And since when are 1, 2 or however many extra players suddenly showing up inside a mission a NON-ENTITY? They add 1, 2 or whatever more sets of powers being used including auras, ect that produce more lag. They increase the size of the mob spawns on the map which increases the lag. In short.. They increase the lag. Now if the lag didn't exist no one would be TRYING to build smaller leagues to begin with since the MORE ADDS you take out the more threads youo potentially earn, the more IXP you earn, and the better your chances are for a Rare or Very rare drop. And during slow periods where finding 24 players gets hard a team may start with less and gladly accept any add ons the G may send theor way BUT until they fix the lag players are running smaller leagues so they can actually move and PLAY the game. If extra people show up and no one wants them.. They get kicked.


Once again you twist whatever you like aroound .. No Leader I know would kick someone they just recruited and invited to their team and I NEVER said they would. WHICH is why they will always kick the people forced on them by the queue.


And your's is wide open to new fresh ideas. LOL


First I seriously doubt those figures are accurate. More likely the person that wrote that has a flair for exaggeration. One guy kicked 16 people out of a trial? and his reason was so he could play with his friends? So what he planned to tackle Siege and Nightstar together with 4 or 5 players? I refer to them since kicking 16 people off a Lambda is called quitting the trial .... no one would be left inside. AS you have pointed out NUMEROUS times, like anyone that has lead or run a trial isn't alreasy aware, once inside a leader can't invite anyone. So this guy either had a death wish or was so stupid he assumed that the QUEUE was going to invite all his buddies to join him after he made room for them. Now I have had the misfortune of playing with some pretty DUMB leaders in my time but I never found one THAT stupid or totally in the dark.


Well fortunately I have rarely been on a league that had any open slots until the LAG MONSTER struck. as for exaggerating until you move a character from Triumph to Virtue and deal with the lag we get in the RWZ just building a league let alone trying to run one with 20+ players running auras etc Don't tell other people what they know they have seen. I have had times where I can't get a single power to fire and can't even get my character to move much less stop escapees (the worst lag of the entire trial). I have dc'd numerous times do to lag and come back to find i missed an Astral and at the end of the trial because I wasn't there the entire time gotten common drops while others got rares or very rares.

LAG is an issue on these trials and just a bit earlier I was on line and ran a BAF with a team of 18. even with 6 slots unfilled the lag was still awful during the Escapee portion. And all your arguing hasn't convinced a single person here that they don't have the right to run trials, tfs or whatever with however many players they like. From the sounds of that I almost never play with people i don't know line .. you don't even really believe it yourself.

If it was your right, there would be a team lock and the queue wouldn't add people if between the minimum and maximum. So without a team lock, and the game putting people on your league, where is your right to not invite people? Please show me any way, outside of filling a league before entering the queue, to prevent other players from joining.

And I acknowledged that.

And people accuse me of being overly dramatic.

The terms are clear when the game adds players to the trial without the leader's (league or team) interaction.

Show me where I said I never teamed with anyone by my friends. I said I seldom do regular missions. Seldom does not mean "never", and there is plenty of other content besides regular missions. There are Task & Strike Forces, trials (of all types), there is the AE (though I've only done 15 AE missions in the last year). I've been doing 2-8 Incarnate trials a day, I've been doing several WSTs a week (except that first ITF week where I did around 30 of them), a few mothership raids and a CoP Trial. I've not touched a regular mission since Issue 20 launched, and the only solo mission I've done was the intro to the Mortimer Kal SF (and that is hardly what I call a mission). Did I know people during that content? Yes. Did I know everyone in all those TFs and Trials? No.

As far as booting, I'm actually more likely to just quit, but that is effectively booting the offender as they aren't doing missions with me.

You really have a dim view of players. Most players in the incarnate trials aren't leaches. I've had exactly one player testing out the reward tables that door sat. It didn't affect the league in any form. Outside that one time, and everyone during that run was aware of it, I've only had problems with 2 players. Those 2 players ruined multiple MoLambda runs. They've earned a spot on my global ignore list, and I won't invite anyone on that list to a trial.

You were asking about a slacker that did nothing but door sitting. They aren't participating, so they are a non-entity.

You did say:
I didn't have to twist what you said, you wrote it.

I have 12 characters on Virtue. My highest is level 32.

This is why I don't think it is productive for us to talk to each other. You either are deliberately exaggerating what I'm saying or you actually believe I'm saying what I am not. I don't know which it is, but I also don't care enough to continue to respond to you.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

By this logic, it's my right to kick people from my league if they join from the queue, otherwise there wouldn't be a kick button. I guess we are on the same page here.

Certainly.

Emoticons are used to show emotions. The one sticking out it's tongue thusly indicates a cheeky/playful demeanor/blowing a rasberry.

<Gasp!> I saw what you did.

Why even bother pointing this out? Of course they don't want to have a friggin seizure.

I meant what was your point in posting my quote and the other quote.

You seemed to be implying something I had not written about.

What cheeky/playful demeanorish point did you mean?

You should try following from the start of converstations.

... y'know, I just have to point out how *amusing* this is coming from the person who is practically insisting in the other thread that, should we be able to lock leagues, that's all that would ever happen.

And that people who kick do so purely because they're antisocial and/or jerks.

... and those aren't even ALL the instances - from ONE THREAD.

Before telling others they have a dim view of players - best check yourself out. Your view of everyone else, going by what I've quoted here, is absolutely horrible. As grumpy and cynical as I tend to be here, I seem to have FAR more faith in my fellow players in my little toe than you seem to evidence in total.

Did you even LOOK at that thread and realize just how much you were pounding that drum, Snow Globe?

I have to wonder why. Is your teaming experience that horrible that you expect that from everyone you meet? I know my general faith in the playerbase comes from the folks I play with - not just my circle of friends, but expanding out to the people I PUG with, run trials with, the small supergroups and the multi-SG groups like RO and the LoC. There are some jerks, yes - but I've found most of this playerbase worthy of the faith I put in their treatment of each other.

See my Guides and Tutorials

At least I can say that I don't seek to punish other players for using a system as intended. I also don't punish a third party for being diplomatic. Wendy provided a great example of the people wanting a lock. She will not only 1-star and ignore an offending player, but she'll do the same to a leader she feels doesn't act according to her wishes fast enough.

I thought you were trying to avoid comparing viewpoints with me because we don't see eye to eye on this?

I've had countless personal attacks (both in an out of game), a global channel (that I used to be an active mod on) that was useful subverted and degraded to the point that even the GMs are saying "just move to another channel" (they can't do anything because some undisclosed player gave someone else mod status), all for the "fun" of a bunch of players that have mostly moved to another server. However those player's attitudes can be found throughout these threads. Also take a look a Rylas' last few posts in the other thread, is name calling really appropriate?

Most of the people I team with are decent people. They are people that would give up their time to help another player out. However there are enough players in these threads that seem to not want to team with others that it does appear that there will not be many open leagues.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

This isn't comparing viewpoints. This is trying to show you just how negatively you seem to be painting everyone else in game. I really don't know if you're aware of it. Heck, grabbing those quotes, it actually surprised ME to find that many.

I thought you might need to have that - aggressive though this sounds - put in front of your face so you could *see* it, especially with you making that comment.

You *are* biased, badly. Yes, you could say the same thing about me, I suppose, but it looks like what you've gone through in game has badly colored your perception of the rest of the playerbase.

I don't know the whole story about your channel and you getting personal attacks. Hell, you'd probably expect *me,* given my being as headstrong, stubborn and generally grumpy as I tend to be, to be the target of similar things - but I'm not. My global's not obvious, but it's also not hard to find, and given I'm welcomed by (fourm) name on Freedom (RO groups, usually, but often mixed or nearly pure PUG) of all places - a server I tend to cut on more often than not - I have yet to experience any sort of attack. The times I'm on one of my namesakes and someone says something, it's usually nothing more than "hi" or "Oh, the forum guy?"

I could see it, and losing a channel you created, really coloring your view, though. And honestly, it's something I'm sorry to hear. You and I don't see eye to eye, and I don't believe we've ever generally gotten along, but it's not the sort of experience I want to hear of anyone having.

As far as locking, people not wanting to team and such....

There are a *very* few who sound like they don't want to team with others at times - period. I can think of... oh, two. And one of them I *know* hops on teams anyway, just catching snatches of his conversations in one of the global channels on Pinnacle.

The majority of those arguing against you (and Hyperstrike, and Arcanaville... I guess you three are the major ones arguing for status quo here) aren't saying they don't want to team with others. Including me. Some haven't stated a preference at all, honestly. But the majority? An option to lock for the times they want a certain playstyle, that's all. That is not an argument for permanently locking them, or refusing to team with others, or "elitism" or whatever else it may be painted as. I'm arguing for it, and I've just been running on several trials over on Guardian - no kicking, no desire to, and probably 75% of the people there have no idea which character was mine, or for that matter who I am.

All that's being asked for is the ability.

And yes, I *do* believe the playerbase in general will use it responsibly.

(Edit: And I do think you're reading Wendy wrong - but I also get the feeling you're both grating on each other at this point, and backing off is probably the wisest course of action.)

See my Guides and Tutorials

So... it's a "choice" between removing characters with problematic power effects... or forcing some of our other team mates quit themselves, or risk a dangerous seizure. And you're adding "weight" to your side of the discussion by quibbling over my choice of method of emphasis. What are you expecting here, a golf clap?

Sure, it's a choice... a lop-sided and unnecessary one. If we were "obligated" to accept people from LFG being added to the league, the option to kick them would not be there. And the click-through "agreement" that some are so hung up on declaring as some kind of obligation... isn't. It's a notification, nothing more.

In the end, having a league lock function or not will change nothing for me. If, on the rare occasions that we're holding a restricted league, we get people from the LFG, they will be kicked. It will be polite, and inevitable. This doesn't disturb my sense of justice one bit. You can pretend to have the "moral high ground" all you want, but I'll lay good odds that the shoe will be on the other foot for you a lot sooner than it will for me. To wit, you're a lot more likely to eventually want the ability to lock a league a lot sooner than I'll wish I didn't have the ability to kick someone.

Y'know... just for a tangent...

I'm one of those that fought and argued against the dev team for a solid year and a half because of the old Sonic Dispersion graphics, JUST for this reason. They gave me headaches, and I'm not prone to migraines. They would force friends to have to log off for the night - and potentially the next day, staying in a nice dark room and trying to get past their head trying to explode.

The current graphics don't bother me - other than thinking some are ugly. But after that fight, what WERE the devs thinking by putting these in? OK, I argued back when BABs was around - is *nobody* around dealing with power effects from that time, too?

Do we have to go through this fight again? Did they learn nothing from the last time?

See my Guides and Tutorials