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50 second Marauder fight? Were the 4 DPS focused builds?
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
8 men Lambda.
Sabotage complete with 10 acids, 10 nades. Marauder dead in 50 seconds. FOUR people on the team got the 10 threads table... (Ironically, I crashed and got an uncommon.) I guarantee you they were here, working their *** off, and doing a fine job. Participation is still borked. |
Frag almighty, just ditch the damn 'participation' junk already. TFs and SFs have worked just fine and dandy for years without interferance from a dumb machine, why the hell implement something like this now, of all times?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Second 8 man Lambda, again 3 of us got the 10 threads table and... hint hint... They were the same players, playing the same toons.
Namely :
Cold/Sonic defender
Fire/Rad corruptor
Fire/SS tanker
(The other person who got the 10 threads table in the first run logged out after the first trial. He was also a fire/rad corr)
The Cold/Son and Fire/Rad took out eight crates, the cold/son kept everyone buffed as well as using Sleet everytime it's up and attacking...
Something is definitely off for these results to happen. These guys ARE participating.
In the hundreds (at least it seems like it, possible exaggeration) of trials I've ran prior to the new patch, I've only ever had the Common option once. I ran two Lambdas back to back this morning and received Common on both.
Not being a Doomsayer, just found it kind of odd.
Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run
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Common is supposed to be more common after the patch than it was (thankfully!). Uncommon was scaled back. Your results are to be expected.
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Originally Posted by blueruckus
In the hundreds (at least it seems like it, possible exaggeration) of trials I've ran prior to the new patch, I've only ever had the Common option once. I ran two Lambdas back to back this morning and received Common on both.
Not being a Doomsayer, just found it kind of odd. |
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Agreed. I would not, however, expect the 10 Threads reward to be popping up so much.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
Common is supposed to be more common after the patch than it was (thankfully!). Uncommon was scaled back. Your results are to be expected.
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A casual read of the Dev posts on the Incarnate Rewards implies that the 10 Thread reward is the "door sitter's" prize. However, they never said explicitly that you can't ever get the 10 Threads reward randomly. They just said you are guaranteed to get it if you are deemed inadequately active.
If they have indeed made the 10 Threads reward a possibility for random reward, then the possibility of getting it may be increased with the reduction of the odds for getting Uncommon drops. If this is indeed what has happened, I will deem this to have been ... ill-advised. Giving people the "door sitter" prize randomly sends incredibly mixed messages, and the evidence I am seeing from both in-game and the forums is that mixed messages quickly piss a lot of players off.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yeah I haven't noticed that big a change either, my melee characters get rares almost every run and my empathy defender gets them not to often but often enough I wouldn't complain. I still have yet to get a very rare on any character and am now over 100 raids.
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If anecdotal statements are true, I agree. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Agreed. I would not, however, expect the 10 Threads reward to be popping up so much.
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I haven't gotten 10 threads yet (including many runs as a storm/ defender, sonic/ defender, dark melee tank), so I can't speak from experience. I haven't played with the new patch yet though, so maybe I will end up getting some tonight.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Sounds like you're not really participating, but speeding through it. How many mobs did you defeat (as a League, not as a character)? *That* is where the participation lies (I would guess), whether that's a good idea or bad idea remains to be seen. (BTW, what did everyone else get? Commons? Uncommons? Rare or Very Rares?)
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
8 men Lambda.
Sabotage complete with 10 acids, 10 nades. Marauder dead in 50 seconds. FOUR people on the team got the 10 threads table... (Ironically, I crashed and got an uncommon.) I guarantee you they were here, working their *** off, and doing a fine job. Participation is still borked. |
Today I have earned as many rares and very rares as I did all the time since i20 launched until yesterday. Something seems to finally be working right.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Fixed? REALLY?
Nothing but uncommons every run after todays patch! This is on my high damage high " PARTICIPATION " scrapper.
Jumped on my tank for a few runs got a 10 threads and a common.
Tried my emp def that I never got anything higher than an uncommon and got 10 threads and then 10 threads again on the next run.
Yup its fixed alright!
Scataloni Volt
Scataloni
Scataloni Tank
Scataloni Arrow
Rad Scataloni
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We cleared the entire area, including turrets. We cleaned stuff around the crates and chambers during the sabotage. Standard MO on every Lambda run I've ever been on, be it small scale with friends or 16 men PUGs. Standard MO that gets me and others rares and very rares from time to time, as well as during these runs - for other characters than the ones who got the 10 threads table, of course.| Sounds like you're not really participating, but speeding through it. |
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A casual read of the Dev posts on the Incarnate Rewards implies that the 10 Thread reward is the "door sitter's" prize. However, they never said explicitly that you can't ever get the 10 Threads reward randomly. They just said you are guaranteed to get it if you are deemed inadequately active. If they have indeed made the 10 Threads reward a possibility for random reward, then the possibility of getting it may be increased with the reduction of the odds for getting Uncommon drops. If this is indeed what has happened, I will deem this to have been ... ill-advised. Giving people the "door sitter" prize randomly sends incredibly mixed messages, and the evidence I am seeing from both in-game and the forums is that mixed messages quickly piss a lot of players off. |
As it is, for better or worse, being told there is a participation system and getting what is supposed to be the lowest prize sort of feels like the game is telling you "you suck", which feels unfair after steamrolling a trial, with teammates getting rares and very rares. I'm not even the guy who got the 10 threads table and it irked me so much I had to post about it.
We just ran a Lambda with seven people (don't ask). Did a typical job: cleared 100% on the streets, courtyard, guns, usual run through for the 'nades and then plowed Marauder.
Three of us got threads (including myself)
Maybe it's an unexpected issue with smaller league sizes. Just trying to get all the information. As for my small part, I've ran one BAF on a full team with a tanker and got an uncommon.
6 Runs for me on my defender...6 uncommons. Sigh...at least they can be downgraded now.
Co-Founder: Hand of Justice, Champion Server
Currently published arcs:
1) Azuria's Difficulties (arc: 55639) - Ver 1.2
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According to the devs, there's a single bar to meet for participation; if you reach that point, you get components, but the rarity of the components you get is completely random. In other words: you only have the power to avoid the booby prize; nothing you do will give you a better chance at rares.
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Originally Posted by Duneman
Nothing but uncommons every run after todays patch! This is on my high damage high " PARTICIPATION " scrapper.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Yeah, I hope it gets fixed. I actually like the change of pace with small teams but no one's going to run them if half the team gets the Leech Prize.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Maybe it's an unexpected issue with smaller league sizes. Just trying to get all the information.
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I still don't believe that's been clearly stated. Something like that was stated, and then something else was said that can be seen as contradicting it. Requests for further clarification have not yet been answered.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
According to the devs, there's a single bar to meet for participation; if you reach that point, you get components, but the rarity of the components you get is completely random. In other words: you only have the power to avoid the booby prize; nothing you do will give you a better chance at rares.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I believe the quote your referencing was clearly stated by one of the senior designers (Berionyx). |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I still don't believe that's been clearly stated. Something like that was stated, and then something else was said that can be seen as contradicting it. Requests for further clarification have not yet been answered.
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Basically: The more you participate, the higher tier table you gain access to, at the end, you randomly receive one of the tables up to the tier you've opened that trial. So if you 'participate' alot, than you might have the ability to get a Very Rare, but you are also much more likely (since it sounds like the tables are weighted) to get the other more common results. Those that don't participate get no chance to access the higher tiers when their random is rolled.
As for what 'participation' is...
They say it's definitely not
*Damage Points Done
*Healing Points Done
*Randomly Clicking Powers
*Tagging enemies
Also they say leadership is rewarded to some extent because they expect leaders to pause now and then to give direction.
I would assume some issue with this 8 man Lambda, is that participation VERY LIKELY has something to do with time spent in proximity of your league, less people = less points.
I'd assume objective killing and enemy killing (not tagging) have something to do with it. Perhaps it's even awarding chatting, it's really hard to say since this whole randomness value exists so heavily.
I will say, in my experience, heavy pseudopet users do NOT seem to be getting correct participation points. I have done 10-15 runs with my dual rainer (fire/cold) and not received higher than an uncommon (often common) drop. I then logged my scrapper on and got 2 rares and a very rare in a row.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
I ran Leagues for about 7 hours straight after dinner. I couldn't tell you how many. I saw no reports of 10 threads tables, but my friend the MM, previously consigned to Commons and Uncommons exclusively over at least dozens of runs, picked up a Very Rare. I also got my first ever Very Rare on a Lambda, but that might just have been my turn at the RNG for that one. It did seem like my rewards were more distributed than before the patch.
I'd say ask Golden Girl, since she was there for a number of them, but even I know how unlikely it is for anyone to believe her on here. I actually made a joke about it when I invited her to the League. "I had to invite GG. We can pretend like it's the forums and tell her she's wrong about everything."
Edit: Neglected to mention sizes. Lambdas were full, or at least no lower than 14 members. BAFs were in the 16-18 range. I call them BAF Lites. I'm hoping the term catches on.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
3 Runs on my Merc/Dark MM (Each run was a full league):
Lambda #1 Had an AFK while street sweeping - Common Component
Lambda #2 Rare Component
BAF Run Uncommon
2 Runs on My Rad/Rad Corr(Full League)
BAF #1 Common
BAF #2 Uncommon
One Theory on why you are getting 10 Threads, is because you don't have enough teammates to carry your participation over the threshold of the Reward Tables. Try getting a Larger League.
@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
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If this is true then it's horrible design. The trial can be done with 8, it should reward properly with 8, especially since in a smaller league each individual needs to participate more.
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
One Theory on why you are getting 10 Threads, is because you don't have enough teammates to carry your participation over the threshold of the Reward Tables. Try getting a Larger League.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I'm starting to think, that if there's something wrong, that it is related to specific characters or even players and not necessarily ATs/power sets.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Second 8 man Lambda, again 3 of us got the 10 threads table and... hint hint... They were the same players, playing the same toons.
Namely : Cold/Sonic defender Fire/Rad corruptor Fire/SS tanker (The other person who got the 10 threads table in the first run logged out after the first trial. He was also a fire/rad corr) The Cold/Son and Fire/Rad took out eight crates, the cold/son kept everyone buffed as well as using Sleet everytime it's up and attacking... Something is definitely off for these results to happen. These guys ARE participating. |
One of my brothers plays a Fire/SS tanker, and my other a SS/Fire brute and they both get plenty of high end salvage (and a lot more low stuff as well), and never the 10 threads.
I now enough people playing mostly support characters (myself included, corruptors mostly) and none of them are really lacking in usefull reward drops either.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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If each has to particiapte more, then their individual performamce should carry them.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
If this is true then it's horrible design. The trial can be done with 8, it should reward properly with 8, especially since in a smaller league each individual needs to participate more.
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@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
8 men Lambda.
Sabotage complete with 10 acids, 10 nades.
Marauder dead in 50 seconds.
FOUR people on the team got the 10 threads table...
(Ironically, I crashed and got an uncommon.)
I guarantee you they were here, working their *** off, and doing a fine job. Participation is still borked.