Did you run your lambdas 4/4 or 8 on the same team?
8 on the same team multiple times, leading to both kinds of results (no threads table / threads table), save for one occurance when we were 9 due to queue.
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But is contradicted by the observed fact of people on the same league getting wildly divergent reward tables.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
And he then stated that the random table (particularly the Very Rare drop) can be weighted by certain league-performance standards. Which is completely non-contradictory to the first statement.
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How on earth do they even measure participation them, especially since what constitutes "participation" varies so wildly across ATs?|
Originally Posted by Katten
As for what 'participation' is...
They say it's definitely not *Damage Points Done *Healing Points Done *Randomly Clicking Powers *Tagging enemies Also they say leadership is rewarded to some extent because they expect leaders to pause now and then to give direction. |
IMHO, the random table should work on a curve, so that, say, 1 piece of Very Rare is always dropped on a 16 Lam team. No more, no less, and if you have gotten a VR drop in the past 48 hours, you cannot get another. 2 Rares, 4 Uncommons, 8 Commons, and 1 thread bundle, the Dunce prize, assuming everyone meets minimum "participation" requirements. Smaller teams are rewarded top-down.
I totally agree with the extra reward for leadership, since that is largely a thankless job.
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This is ri-gosh-dang-diculous. Thank you for posting.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
8 men Lambda.
Sabotage complete with 10 acids, 10 nades. Marauder dead in 50 seconds. FOUR people on the team got the 10 threads table... (Ironically, I crashed and got an uncommon.) I guarantee you they were here, working their *** off, and doing a fine job. Participation is still borked. |
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Ummm... no it isn't. Each person gets their own independently random roll (as evidenced when Baronyx said that other players have no effect on your table, other than the league success = more chance of VR thing). With the chances altered by the league success parameter. Grabbing numbers out of my backside (and making them probably higher than reality for ease of visualization), if the chance of a VR normally is 2^-4 (1/16), but the league success ups it by some change in the exponent, maybe to 2^-3 (1/8) or 2^-2 (1/4), you can still get wildly divergent tables on everyone in the league. If you do 24 independent draws at 1/16 probability, the chances of everyone getting that VR is (2^-2)^24, which is 2^-48. Which is obscenely low. Even if it were a 1/2 probability (2^-1), 2^-24 is still low probability.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
But is contradicted by the observed fact of people on the same league getting wildly divergent reward tables.
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On a team of 24, even if it were a 90% chance drop, the chance of everyone getting that same drop is .9^24, which is (9x10^-1)^24, (9^24)x(10^-24), which comes out just under 8%.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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For those who want to know, the 10 threads is part of the random reward table.
I was on my tank last night, lead a Lambda, lead the teams into each mob, defeated plenty, got 13 threads, held aggro on everything, lead my team through the warehouse, held aggro in there. I initiated every attack on each group.
We cleared the streets, we cleared the turrets, we cleared the inner court yard. At the end of everything I got a 10 thread reward table. I never went afk during the entire raid. So yes, you can get the 10 threads in the reward table.
It was my first "you suck" reward I've ever gotten, I wasn't to happy about it, but what can ya do?
As for random, I doubt it's working correctly. On my storm defender last night I ran 8 BAFs each rewarded me with a uncommon. Doesn't seem random to me.
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If it is an actual reward for the trials, this needs to be changed. Because that is as good as saying 'you all suck and you have bad luck.'
Only the trials get to give you a razzie award? When every other single trial and task/strike force gives you a pop-up that gives you at least the option of Merits or Alpha component?
That is incredibly broken *stupid* in design. And I don't state that lightly.
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before the patch i had a toon with more than 5 of each uncommon that i eventually had to break down into 8 threads each to buy some commons(so more than 2 uncommons to make one common...). if i wasnt already done slotting out my mains i'd be slightly annoyed as to the timing of this change.|
Originally Posted by Aramar
6 Runs for me on my defender...6 uncommons. Sigh...at least they can be downgraded now.
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im glad i got what i wanted before this patch, so far ive gotten threads and commons twice each when before i only got a common once(in enough runs to get two toons all tier 3-4s plus having alot of leftovers).
It looks like the real question everyone wants answered in this thread is: "What exactly do we need to do to get the best rewards consistently." I have a feeling the devs didn't intend on creating a system that can be "played" that way.
Perhaps the primary issue we are dealing with now is our lack of understanding what 'random' really means?
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But that doesn't change the fact that some people/characters just do not get commons. Ever. If the roll is being adjusted by the league success, these people must be consistently in leagues that are performing above some threshold that completely eliminates commons as a drop possibility - except that other people in the league get them repeatedly. The more that happens, the more and more statistically unlikely it becomes that pure randomness is causing the different behaviors. |
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Ummm... no it isn't. Each person gets their own independently random roll (as evidenced when Baronyx said that other players have no effect on your table, other than the league success = more chance of VR thing). With the chances altered by the league success parameter. Grabbing numbers out of my backside (and making them probably higher than reality for ease of visualization), if the chance of a VR normally is 2^-4 (1/16), but the league success ups it by some change in the exponent, maybe to 2^-3 (1/8) or 2^-2 (1/4), you can still get wildly divergent tables on everyone in the league. If you do 24 independent draws at 1/16 probability, the chances of everyone getting that VR is (2^-2)^24, which is 2^-48. Which is obscenely low. Even if it were a 1/2 probability (2^-1), 2^-24 is still low probability.
On a team of 24, even if it were a 90% chance drop, the chance of everyone getting that same drop is .9^24, which is (9x10^-1)^24, (9^24)x(10^-24), which comes out just under 8%. |
You're basically talking about why people do get higher results, but not about why some people don't get certain results at all.
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No, it doesn't work that way. If you got the Uncommon or Rare or Very Rare table, you were also QUALIFIED for the Common table. Your performance can't raise you 'above' the Common table.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
But that doesn't change the fact that some people/characters just do not get commons. Ever. If the roll is being adjusted by the league success, these people must be consistently in leagues that are performing above some threshold that completely eliminates commons as a drop possibility
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And, technically, even if "some people/characters just do not get commons. Ever." is completely true, it doesn't prove anything. Out of the thousands of people running the trials, having some people never get a specific table is EXPECTED. Also keep in mind that the rewards were borked until just this past Tuesday.
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I still believe that the rewards are extremely broken or will appear to be extremely broken by much of the player base until they either:
1. Get rid of the participation code. Really, what is the point anyway? Let the leaders kick leaches. I have a sneaky suspicion that much of the lag in trials may be attributable to it. Lets see, we can have a horribly complicated, buggy, non-transparent, lag-inducing participation system that provides little to no benefit or we could go with the elegant, fair solution and do nothing...which would you choose?
2. Make the participation code transparent. At the very least, have a message like "You've qualified for up to Rare components based on participation" so that one can tell whether the problem is just an unlucky random number streak or based on some buggy participation code. I bet such a message would show all sorts of major problems with the current participation implementation.
Also, adding some type of streak breaker would go a long way towards making people happier. At least once every 10 successful runs one should get a rare and at least once every 20 successful runs one should get a very rare, if they haven't already.
I had my first reports of Threads rewards come up just a bit ago. 2 of the 16 on our BAF reported them. A Mastermind and a Dominator. I know they were active during it, but the game seemed to differ on that. If this system is penalizing them with the inactivity reward, it is in error. If the system brings up a 10 threads reward as a possible outcome of participation, then at least that part of the system is broken.
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