Ice/ice is a gimp combo ?

Hello,
I have been playing for a while with my Ice dom and I have hear around, that ice/ice dom are a poor combination. Mainly b/c they don't get much benefit from Domination and are melee oriented.

What is the true opinion in general about ice dom?

They are worth to perma dom?

I was recently told that ice/ice doms are gimped because ice damage is lower than the other choices. I rolled one just to see, and yes, damage is a little lower, but its far, far, FAR from gimped. Ive had several doms that stayed in melee, so the melee powers in ice arent the problem. That toon was also my first toon i took thru the new incarnate trials and was ALOT of fun. He's tier 3 everything atm. Also, it was fairly easy to build perma-dom goin ice/ice and it wasnt that expensive. My global rech is 186% with hasten i believe, cant check, servers just went down.

On a side note, recently ive tinkered with several powersets/powerset combos that were supposed to be gimped......
After finding 3 'gimped' toons that i enjoy alot I look at it like this....
Find something you like and play it, if you enjoy it, opinions be damned...



Also, player>AT and pwerset choices.


Spyke

Permadom is pretty much always worth it if solely for the full endurance refill every 85ish seconds and the blanket protection from all CC.

The damage of ice powers is from the -spd/rech debuffs they inflict. That said, you could make an Ice^3 dom (take ice mastery for the 3) then build for perma dom and softcapped s/l def and you could be a pretty powerful dominator. I'll take a whack at a build sometime to see what I can come up with.

On the blaster---dominator---controller scale, Ice/Ice leans more towards the blaster side of things. It is by no means weak, its just too jack of all trades to shine in one particular area.

the reputation of ice/ice as bad is not deserved. It comes from two things: 1. ice/ has less hard controls than other primaries and doesn't really have a great every-spawn anti-alpha power. So many ice/ doms die more often when they're learning their character. /ice doesn't do #1 the highest damage. therefore to many people it is gimped.

realistically, that's a load of crap on both counts. ice/ is very solid, just needs to be more careful than other sets. /ice is not #1 for damage but it's not the bottom either (that would be /thorn as far as I know).

I partner with a buddy's ice/ice all the time and he can solo +2/x8 romans. Hell he almost solo'd the second mission of a 6-player ITF when the other 5 of us were goofing off on skype and not paying attention. We only got in on the last 3 cycsts and ambushes once we saw how far he'd gotten.

Forgive my limited knowledge, but as an ice dom for 12 levels I had no problems. You can't completely debilitate people like other pools or do high damage, but once you hit something, chances are it wont recover and its painy-hurt moves won't recharge fast enough again as long as you spec for max slow and such.

Again, only 12 levels and I switched to earth-fire for aesthetic purposes. I still enjoyed ice a lot when I had it. Not designed for raw pain - that might just be fire - but very good at killing recharge and such. Cold forces everyone into slow motion, IMO, and when on the receiving end, it's power is obvious. Trying to fight an AV moving at half the speed of cold molasses with crippled -recharge...... yeah.

I dont particularly care for it eventhough it fits the concept for one of my doms perfectly. The damage is too low for the end costs. It just plays clunky to me almost like electric once they butchered the damage that set had. The good powers at the end definately are not worth waiting for. What Iwould love to see is to make that ice toggle the set gets give the -damage that blasters and tanks get. I would say it would be fair compensation for the lower damage.

Are the endurance cost numbers for powers in Mids accurate? They look rather ridiculous for Icy Assault. 20 end to use ISC? sheesh.

This is what I put together. Softcapped S/L and permadom with a melee playstyle.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Icy Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(42)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Range-I(A)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Ice Sword Circle -- Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(5), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(5), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Armgdn-Dam%(34)
Level 6: Frostbite -- Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(7), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Ragnrk-Dmg(23), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(34), GravAnch-Hold%(43)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(15), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A), Clrty-EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf%(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(21), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(21), Pplx-EndRdx/Conf(23), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(37)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam(46), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Glacier -- UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(29), UbrkCons-Dam%(43)
Level 28: Chilling Embrace -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(29), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 30: Flash Freeze -- FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(31), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(31), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(31), FtnHyp-Plct%(50)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33)
Level 35: Ice Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Bitter Ice Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apoc-Dmg(39), Apoc-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Sleet -- UndDef-Rchg/EndRdx(A), UndDef-Rchg(42), LdyGrey-Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Cardiac Total Radial Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(13)

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1443;679;1358;HEX;|
|78DA65935B4F1A511485CFCC801444014101C10B17CB45E4522F8D97A66DBCB4249|
|A688DD5DA0733D189D258204093FAD6FFD3A7FE88A60F7D6DD3FE09ABA9CF2DDDB3|
|F601A66102F90E6BAF73CE9E75383BEF37DC427C782C14CFFAA5DE6C9E6CD4DE56A|
|A7AABD6B0EFE8E79553E110424C74C593F55AB5D5A85DE6CBA746676CA93E6D36F5|
|77972DAA5E75C6BE72F5C268185512E5C0B55BA305F6EB8671E6C670DBD0EB95EAF|
|9107E6C55CE2F5AF4CBD3299D198DE645A53EBE59AF9C62DB1DBDD9321A57BD4E43|
|D4628EBE8B9A904FDB2EBEA9D4B750BF03AE9F80F707909A204B4964187FD5EE2C2|
|1B290DA24292CD9945D425CA87B80EB0530B20FC4DEC02E347C60D7565453B2AD32|
|9681913520F6085822AF5DB6695F8034B0C85802C61EB07D1EC81E00713A08079A6|
|AAB8E59EC7BEF3F8C91C1290DCE511A84C47040312BA53FE6198A65DA7790F75506|
|798E9B91A0A943B232E4C4762507A0D21C8FAC78D8EC652834C7C715CDC7191538A|
|3026754E08C1ED20A7E6ECBE6D7B168E023DA0A7C02C6AE81E41DA0D1B2A3D23E1A|
|54CCBE93938494C8C680B9382301D8C81E64BB16E4970E79B15088DF3DE30756A98|
|BB03CA2F016BA187FC6D804A2CF39EC329F1BD92332CB08771BE56E5331BCFD8A66|
|76C6EB4D1C61CEE42BC621E398637C0DAC917D4A8635750369FA37E38E710BD8353|
|3325E36CEA12638D404879AE05093FCC71B20FB8CB4CFE4B1C2FD02A3C8C801A912|
|10A2F34AB35D4D7F8694F902CC7D052264989569CE729A394E33C769E6384D1FA59|
|E975726CFBE304D2D4AA9984477519BE562B5E9117153E1F5DBD9BE6AB14F29F529|
|F37DCA429FB2DDA7ECDABAF75928509CDEEE956D5FBBA8AAC8EA1C5ABFE9498AF21|
|2EF3C7C00FCB29AD330DF5ACDD37CAF187B2E53E35D0E2DE323CBF8D832EE3D4FFC|
|345FAAFF0023A1EDC5|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Ice/Ice shouldn't be that much worse or better than my Ice/Fire, who I enjoy very much. You've basically just swapped out Power Boost with Fiery Embrace. Some people would say Ice has fewer powers to Power Boost, so its not as useful. But I think that argument works both ways. Because Ice has few powers to Power Boost, you really want Glacier to last when it hits.

Of all the various AoE holds, Glacier is my favorite. It has a 10ft larger radius than sets with ranged holds and animates fairly quickly. But my favorite thing about it is how obvious the graphic is. It's very, very easy for you and your teammates to see who you hit and who is still a threat

ive never been able to get an ice dom out of its 30's ( mabey cuz i dont slot anything worth while till 47)
the end cost on those things are brutal tho
and i dont much care for jack frost either

This is My Melee Dom Builds, Cap Sm/LT def I couldn't get him more Def on Enrg or Dark but i think is pretty good, any suggestion?

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93


http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Aisuko: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Icy Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
• (3) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
• (3) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
• (5) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold

• (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
• (7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
• (7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
• (9) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (42) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (15) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (15) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (17) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge
• (5) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
• (11) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
• (11) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
• (13) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
• (19) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize

• (A) Obliteration - Damage
• (13) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
• (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
• (37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

• (A) Coercive Persuasion - Confused
• (17) Coercive Persuasion - Contagious Confusion
• (21) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge
• (21) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge
• (29) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge
• (31) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance

• (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
• (25) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
• (25) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
• (34) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (39) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (19) Recharge Reduction IO

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (46) Recharge Reduction IO
• (46) Recharge Reduction IO

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (23) Recharge Reduction IO
• (23) Recharge Reduction IO

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (31) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection

• (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
• (27) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
• (27) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
• (29) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

• (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
• (39) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
• (40) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (40) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (42) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO

• (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
• (45) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
• (45) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
• (45) Doctored Wounds - Heal
• (46) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge

• (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (48) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
• (48) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
• (48) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
• (50) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

• (A) Accuracy IO

• (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth

• (A) Healing IO

• (A) Flight Speed IO

• (A) Healing IO

• (A) Jumping IO

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (42) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (43) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy

softcapped s/l will protect you from a vast majority of attacks ingame. your mezzes should help to mitigate the rest. if you're going to build for a melee playstyle there's no need to take ice blast or slot up ice bolt. bitter ice blast is ok because it's a heavy hitter.

but the slotting for other defense types is really hurting your endbar. you've got 2.24end/sec from just running all of your toggles. you don't have enough recharge to make domination come up fast enough to refill when you need it so your attacks that cost more than they probably should are going to leave you tired quite consistently.

another big issue is that your build isn't permadom. you'll get 1-2 cycles out of it before you have to start from scratch. admittedly, while playing around with the build i made i realize it's a bit hard to build +def and rech to have permadom without resorting to purples.

then there's the lack of sleet, which is the main reason (outside of theme) that doms go for ice mastery.

So the build needs to be tweaked a bit more. shoot for about 90% global recharge first. then build up as much defense as possible. 45% isn't completely necessary as i have an arch/dev blaster running 43% ranged and i still rarely get hit. if you can get 33-40% s/l defense you'd still be in good shape and if you really need that extra defense, that what lucks are there for.

I can think of nothing in the game that is actually gimp.

Min/maxer like to nit-pick specific situations or combos that do not reach whatever lofty combination is in vogue or at the top of their definition is all. That morphs into gimp labels.

My grav/ice if fun (how can whacking someone in the head with a giant icicle not be?). I imagine ice/ice is also.

Thoughts from someone with an ice/thorn, ice/psi & elec/ice @ 50:

I would say ice/ is the second weakest control set available to dominators (grav/ is at the bottom) BUT that does not mean it is "actually" weak, just less powerful than the others.

The negatives:
*Requirement to be in melee range to maximize AA & Glacier. [Can also be view as a positive!]
*Jack may be the worst dom pet right now.
*Anti-synergy between Frostbite & Ice Slick: This one is a killer. I cannot believe it has lasted this long without a change. [Using Frostbite to lock a group in place prevents the KD from Ice Slick].
*Flash Freeze is pretty horrible. In addition to being a sleep, for some reason it does a TINY bit of damage (I'm guessing this was some kind of "theme" element in the design) so you can't even stack it like Mass Hypnosis. Take the damage out of this and set the recharge to 45s, like Mass Hyp, and you'd have a power that at least has some uses (AVs).
*IIRC, Glacier requires you to be on the ground, or very close to it, which makes it annoying for folks to who stay in hover.
*Shiver is a little bit lacking. It's not horrible, but... it's lacking something. Maybe just adding -fly & -jump to it would be enough to add another niche usage to it.


The positives:
*AA is a lot of fun! You can stack procs in it if that's your thing or use the purple set in it (this is what I do) - the proc makes it a lot stronger.
*Ice Slick is one of the most useful & powerful controls in the game. This is the set defining power, IMHO. One of the best control powers to have if you want to play a dom that focuses on melee. And, surprise, it comes in the same set as AA - another of the best powers for a melee dom to have!
*The hold and immob graphics are very clear, without being obstructing (like the earth ones can be).
*The powers color customize pretty well (EXCEPT that they limit you to "ice colors"...which drives me crazy!).

The slows in ice/ & /icy synergnize very well. Running both slow auras is awesome. -135% unslotted - the cap, I think, is -90% - so you hit that there with room to spare should they have debuff resist of some sort. Normally, 1 SO in either would get you there, but this way you don't have to slot a slow - you can throw an end red in CE and the purple set in AA (or 5 + end red or extra proc).

/icy in general is a solid set. There is nothing bad there - no Greater Ice Sword shenanigans like the tankers get stuck with.

If ice/ice has issues, they come from the primary. /ice is fine - doesn't really do anything especially outstanding, but it's more than serviceable. Ice/, on the other hand, has definite problems. However, they aren't the problems a lot of people think.

Being melee oriented is not a problem - heck, most doms want to be there anyway to make use of their high damage melee attacks! Frostbite negating ice slick isn't a big problem, because you don't need to use them both at the same time (in the vast majority of situations, all your slows are going to keep them on the slick anyway). Not benefiting very much from dom is somewhat of an issue, but given that ice's soft controls already a) have very long durations or are toggles, and b) affect bosses the same as minions, it doesn't *need* it as much anyway. The mez protection and end refill are nice, for sure, but honestly I find the break from the 'must perma at all costs' type of set refreshing. Jack is nothing special, for sure, but he's no deal-breaker either.

The actual problems with ice/ are the lack of any decent alpha absorbing power and the lack of good *hard* control. Ice has oodles of soft control, but outside of glacier it doesn't have any way to completely negate damage from a spawn. That by itself isn't necessarily the end of the world as long as your mitigation can keep up with whatever damage does get through, but then you factor in the lack of alpha control and it gets worrying. Overall, while it does have strengths in unconventional control that isn't as easily negated as some, ice just lets through way more damage than a control set ought to. While this is most noticeable solo, it can be a problem on teams too if you're running into anything more challenging than usual. You may be able to paper over the set's mitigation woes with softcapped S/L def and permadom (especially since high defense is perfect for allowing regen to keep up with occasional hits), that doesn't mean that those problems don't exist.

To fix ice, I'd look at flash freeze. An easy change would simply be to remove the useless tick of damage, lower the recharge, and increase the range to give ice a reliable alpha absorber (at least solo). You could even do something a bit more drastic and give the power some sort of ongoing effect after the sleep is broken to make it more attractive for teams.

Ice slick is the only thing that seems pretty attractive...Ice needs to be reworked. I dont see why people would roll a ice dom nowadays when Earth lives. I wouldnt say its gimped, because anything can be great in the right hands, its just all about how much effort it takes for your toon to be great, and Ice/Ice needs alot.

Ice is fine. The playstyle is less obvious than some sets but it is not more or less powerful than Earth or Electric.

IMO the worst thing that ever happened to Ice Control was the advice that propogated for years that Arctic Air can be replaced by Shiver. If you try to use Ice Slick and Shiver in place of AA you will definitely have a frustrating experience. However if you embrace the set for its actual strengths it is a very good performer, especially after IOs.

IMO the single most important thing to maximize in an Ice Control build is enough Recharge to perma some form of mezz protection. On Controllers that means taking Indom Will, and on Doms either doing that or going perma dom. Beyond that, on my Doms I have aimed for Ranged defense with supporting Slash/Lethal Resistance. Sneaking in a self-heal can also be very helpful.

It it needs IOs, ranged defense, extra resistance, perma mez protection and a self heal, then it's not fine, it just means that you can compensate for its weakness. No control AT should need that much help with mitigation. I agree that skipping AA is nuts, and people doing that definitely contributes to the set's poor reputation, but that doesn't mean it's fine.

I play an Ice/Icy as my main and have never felt gimped. It really is a "Jack of all Trades" combo; I can do just about everything, but in exchange for that I don't reach the peaks in any one area that another set might. I've done things like tank ITFs and solo Rikti Pylons with no temps/insps (prior to I20's new Incarnate abilities). Other Doms have done that, likely with less investment and greater ease, but I personally can't call a combo that lets me do that "gimp".

I think /Icy is perfect the way it is, if kind of end heavy. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing some tweaks to Shiver, Flash Freeze and (maybe) Jack Frost though. Those powers, to me, are the weak points of the set. None of them are bad per se; they just end up being overkill or don't help Ice Control shine.

As it stands you can basically skip Shiver if you take AA. What if Shiver had a secondary effect? Say -damage (like Chilling Embrace), -regen and/or -special (like Benumb), or had some mez capability? Perhaps it could be given a Fear component with a different animation. "You chill your enemies to the core, causing them to stop and tremble from the intense cold."

For Flash Freeze, I like the above suggestions. Remove the damage and delay, adjust the recharge and potentially the range. Leave it so that it generates aggro, but then it could be stacked.

Something about Jack Frost irks me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Like Ice/ itself he's a jack of all trades, but he just feels very "meh" to me. He draws a lot of aggro but isn't equipped well enough to survive it, his damage is nice but not great, though he does contribute to your mez ability. I think I'd like him more if he was either more survivable at the cost of some damage, or was made into a ranged pet that focused on damage/control. That's more a personal preference thing though.