Lord_Saigon

Originally Posted by _Pine_

DM/SD scrapper would be a better choice if you are wanting to actually KILL those hard targets. If you just want to be able to survive the hard targets, roll a tank.

Originally Posted by ultrawatt

One of the problem with elec though is that it doesnt have that one really good AoE attack. While fire has FSC, and claws has spin. But thuderstrike is nothing more than a glorified cone and ends up being even WORSE than most cones, for AoE its really ****. And then LR gives you an amazing 10 dps. So unlike almost any powerset elec does an awful job of giving you a good attack chain.

Originally Posted by Amy_Amp

/fire/mu is good enough to carry a crappy AoE primary. If not SS, then Claws works, but again, it's rather difficult to screw up if you have /fire/mu to begin with.

Originally Posted by Amy_Amp

Define farming. Are we talking ticket munching, or PLing others? For PLing, nothing really matches it, but you can get close enough to where it won't matter. Claws, as previously mentioned works. For sheer ticket munching, I would pick Claws over SS just because it's easier to do since you only need a damage aura and Spin versus waiting until 32 to get FS and since you can do it via low level maps, you can do it unslotted.

Originally Posted by je_saist

When in doubt, check the Wiki: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Spines

Spines has no native fear components.

Quills specifically only has a Slow Component.

Originally Posted by El_Danno

Okay, Lord_Saigon, I had a chance to look at your build. I'm gonna be blunt - I don't understand a lot of the slotting choices you made in the build. Grounded and Static Shield seem very overslotted to me, especially Grounded. These powers provide minimal resistance to damage types you're either already well protected against or which are rare. Grounded especially seems badly overslotted since it is an auto power and costs no endurance.

Power Siphon and Hasten are both underslotted - Power Siphon is one of the most important powers in your Primary, but you have very little +tohit in here and have it recharging quite slowly, and Hasten is up only slightly more than 1/2 the time - a risky choice since your main self-heal power is on a pretty long timer without serious +recharge help.

Health and Stamina are also underslotted. You had concerns about end use in the build I posted - however, with all toggles running except Super Speed and Sprint, my build had a total end consumption of 1.97/s and a recovery of 3.07/s, leaving me with 1.1/s to use. Yours (without Super Speed, Sprint and Power Surge)has a consumption of 1.61/s and a recovery of 2.41/s, leaving you with only 0.8/s to use - this means your build will run out of end long before mine. Putting more investment into +recovery in your build, either through a Numi +recovery/+regen proc or more slots in Stamina (or both!) would help you quite a bit.

What has me more confused than anything else is your decision to slot Thunderstrikes in your ranged attacks, but limit them to 5 slots each. If you were going for better E/NE defense, then expanding each of these to 6 slots or limiting them to 3 slots of Thunderstrike with a couple of slots left for Frankenslotting Devastations would make far more sense to me. Personally, I'd rather see sets of Decimation in here, as additional E/NE defense doesn't do alot for this power combo, but +recharge, as stated above, can really help keep you on your feet by getting Energize up more often.

I'm also confused as to why you slotted Mocking Beratements in Power Sink. This is an end drain power and is most useful to you slotted up as such, especially considering your build's high end consumption. That notwithstanding, considering the sheer amount of end drain Elec Armor can produce if Power Sink and Lightning Field are slotted properly, this can be considered a great mitigation and soft control power. It's hard for mobs to do anything to you if they don't have endurance, after all!

I can tell you're trying to build for enhanced defense across the board, but honestly, with Elec Armor, that's just not a totally feasible thing to do. It's why I aimed for only 32.5% S/L defense and pretty much ignored everything else about defense. This allows me to reach the S/L defense softcap with a single small purple insp. I generally carry around at least 8 small purples in case I get into bad situations, but even then, powers such as Power Sink and Energize come into play much more often for keeping me on my feet.

I hope this critique has been helpful to you - I'm not trying to come across as a jerk, I honestly want your build to be successful, and I like the power choices you made, just not the slotting choices.

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

+1 Nilhilii

Look, there has been a lot of work on the scrapper and brute boards on the performance of KM. This guy drops in and throws down a love bomb on some powerset combo without empirical support. Obviously the number crunchers who have done all the work are going to get miffed.

Nihillii could have said nothing and let the OP's post stand -- but that probably wouldn't have been fair to pre-Freedom folks who read it and get the wrong impression. I'm sure the OP loves his KM. Nihilii is just pointing out that true top performance comes from other sets.

Originally Posted by Deacon_NA

I'm running out of endurance just reading that 1.3 end/second cost.

And no, those don't scale with level. I wouldn't say those numbers are weak, they're less than MM (and I would hope so given how the MM version works) but when added to the other debuffs, is quite potent.

Not sold on making one though, after 2 /poison MMs...

Originally Posted by McCharraigin

Lisa eyes this, blinks, and broke it up into chunks....and is still a trifle confused.

I guess what he is saying is everyone has a different perception as to what is best. A clutz and a person with fine coordination will experience a powerset in two different ways.

KM/Elec/Fire might ooze uberness for you, but may not to someone else who has different skill levels.

Putting out numbers to support your claims is more informative then "This is Uber"

Unless you are one for whom "Math Is Hard" in that case cited numbers will mean nothing, and "This is "UBER" means everything.

What else did I get out of this...oh yes, A skilled person can take a glass cannon powerset and solo Hamidon with it, while a clutz can take your UBER KM/Elec/Fire and get felled by a Hellion.

I might be wrong, but this is what I got out of this post.

And Nihilii, you have posted a long block of text, one of the longest, and most confusing, I have seen. You cannot yell at others for doing the same now.

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

Unfortunately what I saw of Poison on the test server today didn't especially impress me. It might still change. The AoE added to Poison's single target debuff powers is just 8ft radius. the PBAoE power looks somewhat serviceable but I dont know many Plant trollers who hang out at 15ft radii from enemies.

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

I got a screenshot of the Corruptor version, but due to a bug wasn't able to look at the values on a Controller.

Originally Posted by joebartender

I am not sure what your trying to say here. Mind/ is already a dom primary. It is hard to get more dominator esq than that. The set is exactly the same for doms as it is for trollers.

As for /TM if that was what you had meant instead of mind. One of the cornerstone abilities of the set is a pbaoe toggle debuff that pretty much means your going to be in melee most of the time to get the most out of your powers.

Originally Posted by Nihilii

I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.