City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

KM/Elec/Fire oozes uberness

BeornAgain

By BeornAgain,
Posted on: 2011-08-10 10:21 in Brutes

 

Posted

KM elec is suprisingly good. It does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do. Farm, tank Tf's, trials. The combo is pretty complete, the only hole is knockback and I rarely jump or get caught in the air at all so thats not even that bad. Get yourself ION judgement, elemental lore, rebirth destiny and reactive interface and your set. I understand SS is the prime primary and fire not too far behind and theres some false consensus that KM sucks for Brutes and I just have to disagree with that.

I would like to see a boost in 'Burst's' damage however, but overall KM/Elec is very good. I can post my build later if anyone is interested.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta View Post
sounds good, however, with invul, you can really cram alot of defense into it, it would be suprising if you can do that on elec, im interested in this build of yours
I'm at work now so I cant view your build nor post mine, and as good as Invul is, it doesnt have a damage aura like elec. So when it comes down to the farming aspec I think its better. Invul has a ton of s/l resist but thats about it. If I remember correctly I have 36% defense to smashing lethal. Alot of people gimp the crap out of their build pushing for 45% but its not really worth it. I rather pop a purple if needed for the few situations I need more defense than gimp myself in every situation just for 9% of defense. If I wanted to spend 2 billion to get that other +3 defense proc that isnt steadfast (I forget the name) I could have 39%.

I dont think Elec gets its props since its buff...Is it Invul or Willpower? no but it outshines those 2 in certain aspects of content and I really dont think it gets it just do for that.

 

Posted

A friend of mine runs KM/Elec/Fire w. Ion Judgement and he absolutely rips through things. He has barely any IO sets and at the moment just uses mostly standard IOs. I am constantly amazed at his damage output.
I run an Invul/SS tank and I'm all IO sets and the difference between what him and I can drop is staggering.

 

Posted

I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.
You got some uber on your shirt.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.
I'm staring at this, wondering if there's a 3D image hidden within the text. Just waiting for it to pop out at me.

SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.
Sorry bro....I just have to skim this because look how its structured. Sorry I interrupted your willpower/stone/invul lovefest. Sorry I play, enjoy and praise other combo's. Shouldnt have did that -_-. You can "crunch" all the numbers you like, Crunching numbers and actually PLAYING a lvl 50 IO'd, incarnate laced toon is very different than popping open your pez dispenser and fiddling with your pocket calculator. You yourself just said you can push any combo to do pretty cool things, so I dont understand whats with the hostile post. Is it because I didn't post numbers to support my personal experiance to please you?. Is it because my toon isnt SS/FA or DM/INV?. I dunno man what is it? I didnt know praising your build was a crime.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good).

I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes.

There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball.

Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help?

Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women...

Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better.

Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense.

Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs.

All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters!

Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some.

Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further.

Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.
Lisa eyes this, blinks, and broke it up into chunks....and is still a trifle confused.

I guess what he is saying is everyone has a different perception as to what is best. A clutz and a person with fine coordination will experience a powerset in two different ways.

KM/Elec/Fire might ooze uberness for you, but may not to someone else who has different skill levels.

Putting out numbers to support your claims is more informative then "This is Uber"

Unless you are one for whom "Math Is Hard" in that case cited numbers will mean nothing, and "This is "UBER" means everything.

What else did I get out of this...oh yes, A skilled person can take a glass cannon powerset and solo Hamidon with it, while a clutz can take your UBER KM/Elec/Fire and get felled by a Hellion.

I might be wrong, but this is what I got out of this post.

And Nihilii, you have posted a long block of text, one of the longest, and most confusing, I have seen. You cannot yell at others for doing the same now.

So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.
ALL FEAR THE GIANT WALL OF TEXT!!!!!!

I don't really care for KM. It just feels slow to me with all its hand wavey motions, even though from a numbers stand point it's not bad. Not the best, but not bad.

To Kor-EL, any brute is going to tear through things compared to a tank, especially an Incarnate.

 

Posted

I think a plane flies overhead.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCharraigin View Post
Lisa eyes this, blinks, and broke it up into chunks....and is still a trifle confused.

I guess what he is saying is everyone has a different perception as to what is best. A clutz and a person with fine coordination will experience a powerset in two different ways.

KM/Elec/Fire might ooze uberness for you, but may not to someone else who has different skill levels.

Putting out numbers to support your claims is more informative then "This is Uber"

Unless you are one for whom "Math Is Hard" in that case cited numbers will mean nothing, and "This is "UBER" means everything.

What else did I get out of this...oh yes, A skilled person can take a glass cannon powerset and solo Hamidon with it, while a clutz can take your UBER KM/Elec/Fire and get felled by a Hellion.

I might be wrong, but this is what I got out of this post.

And Nihilii, you have posted a long block of text, one of the longest, and most confusing, I have seen. You cannot yell at others for doing the same now.
Ha well this is better. Anyway my post was just praising a combo that "I" find fun. Whether a person who plays a SS/FA finds it fun isnt my concern. If I crunched numbers I may not have rolled my KM/Elec/Fire, glad thing I didnt because I find my toon very awesome. All I said was KM/Elec can do somethings willpwer/invul can and he acts like I said its better lol!, You would think I insulted his family or something.

 

Posted

Yeah, so...

Trying to get this thread back on track, I've found that KM/Elec is a ton of fun to play, even if it isn't the best possble combo in terms of the numbers. Here's my build, or at least what I'm planning for 50 when I get there. It's got 32.5% S/L Defense so I can pop a single small purple and be at the softcap, and 90% energy resist, which is awesome for the endgame content. It's also perma-hasten and only 1.8 seconds off of perma-energize. Plus the Mu Mastery adds a much-needed dose of AoE to the build. I'm currently sitting at level 46, and even without alot of the level 50 IO sets in, this build hits like a Mack truck and is quite survivable, especially after end-draining everything around with a well-timed Power Sink.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Motor Drive: Level 50 Technology Brute
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Body Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg(9)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Smashing Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg(13)
Level 4: Lightning Field -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(15), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Armgdn-Dam%(17)
Level 6: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam(21)
Level 8: Power Siphon -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(21), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-Rchg(23), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Static Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 18: Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(33)
Level 20: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(25)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(27), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(27), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(29), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(29), Mocking-Rchg(31)
Level 28: Energize -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(34), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal(36), Dct'dW-Rchg(36)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam(46), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg(39)
Level 35: Power Sink -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(40), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(40), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 41: Mu Lightning -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Ragnrk-Knock%(46)
Level 47: Electrifying Fences -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(48), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(48), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(48), GravAnch-Hold%(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43), P'Shift-EndMod(50)



Code: 
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Posted

El dano I'll post my build when I get home, meant to yesterday but I had woman aggro. From a glance I can say static and manuevers seem underslotted. Not for bonus's but for your end usage. I guess you feel that you can do it because PS would be back up before end becomes a problem? Looks ok but I'll show you mine so we can compare later on.

 

Posted

I dont know why anyone should get upset over the OP. He simply said (over simplified) 'I love the set/combo and for me its awesome'
Its about fun, and the OP is clearly stating he is having it.

If you are the type of player that is a min/max player, you aren't going to just read this one thread and say 'that's the set for me!' If you do, then you arent a min/max player. Those types of players actually do research on there numbers.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon View Post
El dano I'll post my build when I get home, meant to yesterday but I had woman aggro. From a glance I can say static and manuevers seem underslotted. Not for bonus's but for your end usage. I guess you feel that you can do it because PS would be back up before end becomes a problem? Looks ok but I'll show you mine so we can compare later on.
Cool. I'll tell you that end really isn't a problem because of PS. All I need is a mob or 2 near me every 17 seconds and voila... full end! Even getting hit by end drainers like Malta Sappers, this build has almost no end problems. The only times I've run out of end are when I've stopped paying attention to the blue bar, so not the build's fault at all. Besides, slotting static and maneuvers for more end reduction doesn't do a heck of a lot for end savings, considering lightning field has the same end cost as maneuvers even purpled out like it is. Moving some slots around, canning the Kismet +6 tohit to put a LotG Def/End in Maneuvers and switching the LotG Defense in Weave to a Def/End yields an additional 0.15 end/sec while keeping defense levels where they currently sit. Not really worth it for the loss in global accuracy, at least in my mind.

Anyways, I'll look forward to checking out your build later on.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
I've crunched the numbers and played extensively KM multiple times on either AT to 50, including mirror combos so I can have direct comparisons, as well as detailed my reasoning regarding damage buffs working comparatively worse on brutes than scrappers due to the way the AT itself work, having lower base damage + Fury rather than higher base damage, a thought that seems shared by most if not all knowledgeable folks, but hey, mister random person, I'm glad you can put everyone's concerns about KM's performance at rest with such rock solid arguments as "it does TONS of damage and can basically do alot of things that Invul/Stone/Willpower can do" (which seems like a self-defeating argument to me, as if you're arguing it can do a lot of things, as opposed to all the things, and hasn't anything extra, then it only follows that it is not as good). I could also go on about /fire vs /mu, if going for AoE, or /soul, if going for ST + almost as good AoE + survivability, but it's late and I want to wrap up this run on rant by deploring once again the annoying trend for people to see everything in black and white and confuse relative statements with absolutes. There is a best and there is a worst, that doesn't mean the worst is unplayable ; the worst active NBA player could probably make a fool out of anyone who's reading these forums at basketball. Sure, you can dress it up by claiming everyone is a winner and is awesome, but who does that help? Maybe the feelings of people who care about the performance of their characters, but then wouldn't we be more helpful to these players by giving them the correct information rather than sugarcoated affirments, assertions that are if you ask me quite condescending as really that's the kind of stuff you feed children, and I feel it's safe to assume the vast majority of people on the boards, especially those who are likely to visit the archetype forums, are at least teens and most likely grown men or women... Then comes the second annoying trend, player compares himself with random people on PUGs, sees himself perform better, concludes powerset combo is better. Holy logical leap Batman, have you stopped and considered that this game takes a bit of skill to play? As little as it might be to some people - again, people who treat everything as an absolute, which is especially silly when discussing skill in a MMO as there are, always, a significant amount of the playerbase who plays at a level that is, let's just say, far below what would be required to have any kind of enjoyable experience in most other video games ; as little as it might seem, the point is there is still much room in this game for personal skill to supplement build differences to a point, and comparing oneself to random players just doesn't make sense. Just yesterday I've seen a blaster taking the alpha against Marauder and his cronies in a Lambda while all the brutes and tankers were sitting on their pancakes, twiddling their thumbs. All melee powersets suck! Let's all reroll blasters! Thankfully it doesn't work this way, and thankfully there is room for something beyond just picking up the power build and closing your eyes, although it can feel that way at times after hours, dozens of hours, hundreds of hours playing the game, which is the kind of time during which you could learn a whole new language or professional activity really, so it should come at no surprise that certain things that are not as obvious to more casual players become child's play for some. Bottomline, you can push absolutely every combo in this game to do pretty cool stuff, far above what is actually required for regular play, but some will have an easier time at it, some will be faster, some will be able to push it even further. Hiding that fact behind happy-go-lucky rhetoric doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me, sure there are people who consider anything but the absolute best to be broken and useless and might then try it, but most likely they'll find out at some point that particular combo isn't the thing it was hyped up to be and will end up feeling disappointed. So the lesson here is you can't change people, but you can rant at them and that makes you feel better for a little while, up until facebook and google finally manage to push for our real identity to be tied to our online personas all the time, and the angry masses come to your home and burn your house for daring to say that guys, it could be that, open parenthesis, two plus one point fifty, close parenthesis, times one point fifteen might just be bigger than, open parenthesis, two plus one point sixty plus one point twenty-five, close parenthesis, times zero point seventy-five, and no home means limited internet access, means the end of the world as we know it.

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Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Saigon: Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Body Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), HO:Nucle(9)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Smashing Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), HO:Nucle(37)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Power Siphon -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(43), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 10: Static Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(19), RctvArm-EndRdx(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 20: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(27), RctvArm-EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 26: Focused Burst -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(33), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 28: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(33), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(34), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(34), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 35: Power Sink -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(39), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(39), Mocking-Taunt(39)
Level 38: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Power Surge -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 31.13% Defense(Smashing)
  • 31.13% Defense(Lethal)
  • 3% Defense(Fire)
  • 3% Defense(Cold)
  • 14.25% Defense(Energy)
  • 14.25% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 22.69% Defense(Melee)
  • 8.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 3% Defense(AoE)
  • 1.8% Max End
  • 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
  • 4% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 41% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 40% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 13% FlySpeed
  • 101.2 HP (6.751%) HitPoints
  • 13% JumpHeight
  • 13% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Held) 2.75%
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 13.75%
  • MezResist(Stun) 4.4%
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
  • 6.5% (0.109 End/sec) Recovery
  • 20% (1.252 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 2.835% Resistance(Fire)
  • 2.835% Resistance(Cold)
  • 1.875% Resistance(Negative)
  • 13% RunSpeed

This is my non purp build without incarnates or accolades factored in...converting to my purple one this weekend. Any tips would be welcome. Looking to get more HP without losing my Sm/l def.

 

Posted

I realize that a brute will always outdo tank dps. All I meant by what I said was that I'm amazed by just HOW much. But then again, it could be my infantile understanding of the Incarnate system and what it does for a player.

 

Posted

+1 Nilhilii

Look, there has been a lot of work on the scrapper and brute boards on the performance of KM. This guy drops in and throws down a love bomb on some powerset combo without empirical support. Obviously the number crunchers who have done all the work are going to get miffed.

Nihillii could have said nothing and let the OP's post stand -- but that probably wouldn't have been fair to pre-Freedom folks who read it and get the wrong impression. I'm sure the OP loves his KM. Nihilii is just pointing out that true top performance comes from other sets.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
+1 Nilhilii

Look, there has been a lot of work on the scrapper and brute boards on the performance of KM. This guy drops in and throws down a love bomb on some powerset combo without empirical support. Obviously the number crunchers who have done all the work are going to get miffed.

Nihillii could have said nothing and let the OP's post stand -- but that probably wouldn't have been fair to pre-Freedom folks who read it and get the wrong impression. I'm sure the OP loves his KM. Nihilii is just pointing out that true top performance comes from other sets.
Yes...and they will run to be one of the many of SS/FA's or DM/INV'S and think everything else is inferior. Yep that is fair to them I guess. Seems like only Fotm's are the only things allowed to get praised around here.

 

Posted

I remember looking at the set when it came out. I was like, "hmm get +damage from different attacks. wouldn't pushing rage be easier?"

 

Posted

Bleh, all this number crunching *shudders*. You guys need to realize that A) this isn't World of Warcraft, and B) doing 0.5 more dps than the guy beside you doesn't win you any awards.

Go have fun and quit dumping on the people who just want to express their enjoyment of a power set.

 

Posted

Okay, Lord_Saigon, I had a chance to look at your build. I'm gonna be blunt - I don't understand a lot of the slotting choices you made in the build. Grounded and Static Shield seem very overslotted to me, especially Grounded. These powers provide minimal resistance to damage types you're either already well protected against or which are rare. Grounded especially seems badly overslotted since it is an auto power and costs no endurance.

Power Siphon and Hasten are both underslotted - Power Siphon is one of the most important powers in your Primary, but you have very little +tohit in here and have it recharging quite slowly, and Hasten is up only slightly more than 1/2 the time - a risky choice since your main self-heal power is on a pretty long timer without serious +recharge help.

Health and Stamina are also underslotted. You had concerns about end use in the build I posted - however, with all toggles running except Super Speed and Sprint, my build had a total end consumption of 1.97/s and a recovery of 3.07/s, leaving me with 1.1/s to use. Yours (without Super Speed, Sprint and Power Surge)has a consumption of 1.61/s and a recovery of 2.41/s, leaving you with only 0.8/s to use - this means your build will run out of end long before mine. Putting more investment into +recovery in your build, either through a Numi +recovery/+regen proc and a Miracle +recovery proc in Health or more slots in Stamina (or both!) would help you quite a bit.

What has me more confused than anything else is your decision to slot Thunderstrikes in your ranged attacks, but limit them to 5 slots each. If you were going for better E/NE defense, then expanding each of these to 6 slots or limiting them to 3 slots of Thunderstrike with a couple of slots left for Frankenslotting Devastations would make far more sense to me. Personally, I'd rather see sets of Decimation in here, as additional E/NE defense doesn't do alot for this power combo, but +recharge, as stated above, can really help keep you on your feet by getting Energize up more often.

I'm also confused as to why you slotted Mocking Beratements in Power Sink. This is an end drain power and is most useful to you slotted up as such, especially considering your build's high end consumption. That notwithstanding, considering the sheer amount of end drain Elec Armor can produce if Power Sink and Lightning Field are slotted properly, this can be considered a great mitigation and soft control power. It's hard for mobs to do anything to you if they don't have endurance, after all!

I can tell you're trying to build for enhanced defense across the board, but honestly, with Elec Armor, that's just not a totally feasible thing to do. It's why I aimed for only 32.5% S/L defense and pretty much ignored everything else about defense. This allows me to reach the S/L defense softcap with a single small purple insp. I generally carry around at least 8 small purples in case I get into bad situations, but even then, powers such as Power Sink and Energize come into play much more often for keeping me on my feet.

I hope this critique has been helpful to you - I'm not trying to come across as a jerk, I honestly want your build to be successful, and I like the power choices you made, just not the slotting choices.