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When in doubt, check the Wiki: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Spines|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
I made a spine/fire for farming, however mobs just run away. I'm thinking it's quills because they removed the fear component from burn. If this is the case I have to run to red side to grab the Mu patron, or go back to farming with my Elec/SD.
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Spines has no native fear components.
Quills specifically only has a Slow Component.
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Then why do they scatter? Even in ambush farms, once they get a feel of what I have to offer they run away lol.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
When in doubt, check the Wiki: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Spines
Spines has no native fear components. Quills specifically only has a Slow Component. |
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Enemies have a morale rating: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...96&postcount=7|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Then why do they scatter? Even in ambush farms, once they get a feel of what I have to offer they run away lol.
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Critters run away for one of two reasons: A power or script forces them to or their "grief" flag has been set to true. The Grief flag gets set to true when the enemy's morale breaks. Morale can break because a team mate died too quickly, or because they cannot attack their enemy effectively. So, if a group of softcapped players AoE nuke half a spawn down, the rest are pretty likely to run away -- a bunch of their team just died AND their odds of being able to retaliate are at minimal levels. I'm not saying there isn't a problem; I am giving you, the players, more information regarding how it works internally. You should also know that runners are a part of the game and eliminating that aspect of the game isn't really likely to happen. |
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In short, no taunt aura.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Then why do they scatter? Even in ambush farms, once they get a feel of what I have to offer they run away lol.
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EDIT: /sd has one of the best taunt auras.
This thread could also be titled "Why I won't play Spines/Fire until they port Spines to Brutes".
I believe (from what I've tested) that mobs have code that makes them flee when under the effects of a debuff. Not only do you not have a taunt aura, the the morale is even worse because of the slow debuff.
Until scrappers can get a taunt aura the sets without one are fairly useless.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Might explain why I hear that an SS/Fire Brute is the ultimate farmer.
Of course YMMV.
Debuffs and Damage Over Time effects both cause foes to flee. The effect is kind of ridiculous. I am rather confident that it has become worse over the years than it was originally - indeed I'm not sure original foes ever ran away short of outright terror effects. Now, however, it is ridiculous, IMNSHO.
I can cause a giant monster to run away by inflicting DoTs and/or debuffs on it, all by my lonesome, even when I cannot possibly kill it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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/this|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Debuffs and Damage Over Time effects both cause foes to flee. The effect is kind of ridiculous. I am rather confident that it has become worse over the years than it was originally - indeed I'm not sure original foes ever ran away short of outright terror effects. Now, however, it is ridiculous, IMNSHO.
I can cause a giant monster to run away by inflicting DoTs and/or debuffs on it, all by my lonesome, even when I cannot possibly kill it. |
burn does not have a fear component anymore, but baddies still hate debuff/dmg patches
burn, ice storm, rain of fire, oil slick, burning oil slick, tar patch, and any other DoT or debuff patch will make the baddies go crazy even though there are no fear components, the only counter to the running is taunt
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I'm not trying to refute your point, but actually some of the things you listed do have a fear (or rather, "avoid") component.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
burn, ice storm, rain of fire, oil slick, burning oil slick, tar patch, and any other DoT or debuff patch will make the baddies go crazy even though there are no fear components, the only counter to the running is taunt
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Here's an example
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I'm also of the opinion that some of the powers that have the "avoid" effect should not. It's fine and appropriate in rain powers, but in others it serves no purpose. If I make the mistake of rolling a Storm summoner without an immobilize I will be be unable to use two of my main powers against any KB resistant foe. That includes all PToD EBs. They literally take one shot from Lightning Storm, take off running for the hills, return a minute or two later, get shot one time, and take off again.
What makes me ever more puzzled is I thought damage auras were supposed to be the taunt auras, because on my KM/Elec brute nothing runs, And when I watch SS/Fire brutes, nothing runs (maybe they die before they get a chance too). I'm thinking it's the AT mixed with the things you've said. I long for the days of fury+quills+Blazing aura :-(
And yes... this is a big problem with damage auras on scrappers in general. Wish they would address this because it's a very common complaint.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Brutes have tauntvoke in their attacks as well as a taunt aura someplace in their secondaries.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
What makes me ever more puzzled is I thought damage auras were supposed to be the taunt auras, because on my KM/Elec brute nothing runs, And when I watch SS/Fire brutes, nothing runs (maybe they die before they get a chance too). I'm thinking it's the AT mixed with the things you've said. I long for the days of fury+quills+Blazing aura :-(
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Wasn't Energy Aura the exception to the taunt aura design for Brutes before the recent changes?
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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They do run, but most times they start to run and then the taunt aura and you attacking bring them back so they don't go far. Brutes do get taunts through merely attacking as well, IIRC. Some will flat out run away and then come back, but it's not nearly as bad as what it is on scrappers.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
What makes me ever more puzzled is I thought damage auras were supposed to be the taunt auras, because on my KM/Elec brute nothing runs, And when I watch SS/Fire brutes, nothing runs (maybe they die before they get a chance too). I'm thinking it's the AT mixed with the things you've said. I long for the days of fury+quills+Blazing aura :-(
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There are some mobs whose AI specifically causes them to run even with standard taunt effects on them - the stupid flying longbow are a good example of this, they actually have a power that forces them to move when they are near a PC, I believe it is supposed to make them into a ranged sniper type of character. So even with taunt they will close with you, attack once maybe, then fly way, then close with you, etc. |
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
They do run, but most times they start to run and then the taunt aura and you attacking bring them back so they don't go far. Brutes do get taunts through merely attacking as well, IIRC. Some will flat out run away and then come back, but it's not nearly as bad as what it is on scrappers.
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There are other npc's that have similar AI that can only be partially countered with taunt effects. Tsoo sorcerers and their 'TP away on initial aggro' code and Council/5th column marksmen/galaxies who won't close with you no matter how much you taunt unless you LOS pull them are examples that spring to mind.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Its a case of the brute version specifically having a taunt effect and the scrapper version not having it. If you look at the in game effects for blazing aura on both AT's you can see that the brute version has a 13.6s mag 4 taunt effect, the scrapper version does not. Pretty much all the damage aura's are like this as is the brute version of evasion, which was given a taunt aura when it was ported to brutes. Some scrapper secondaries do have the a similar taunt as brutes though - AOO in shield defense, Invincibility in Invulnerability and RttC in WP all have taunt effects although they tend to be mag 3 vs the brutes mag 4.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
What makes me ever more puzzled is I thought damage auras were supposed to be the taunt auras, because on my KM/Elec brute nothing runs, And when I watch SS/Fire brutes, nothing runs (maybe they die before they get a chance too). I'm thinking it's the AT mixed with the things you've said. I long for the days of fury+quills+Blazing aura :-(
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Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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RttC is especially irksome due to the -tohit debuff causing the "Oh noes I be debuffed" code to kick in and scatter mobs and then the weak taunt not keeping them leashed as tightly as say AAO does. At least in my experience.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
Its a case of the brute version specifically having a taunt effect and the scrapper version not having it. If you look at the in game effects for blazing aura on both AT's you can see that the brute version has a 13.6s mag 4 taunt effect, the scrapper version does not. Pretty much all the damage aura's are like this as is the brute version of evasion, which was given a taunt aura when it was ported to brutes. Some scrapper secondaries do have the a similar taunt as brutes though - AOO in shield defense, Invincibility in Invulnerability and RttC in WP all have taunt effects although they tend to be mag 3 vs the brutes mag 4.
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Overall this issue more than anything else has kept me on Brutes over scrappers. I can't enjoy a melee toon that doesn't get a damage aura and I want that aura to keep things glued to me not cause them to scatter in fear of my awesomeness.
Global: @Kelig
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I clearly remember mobs running away on my spines scrapper back in issue 1. I also remember the glee when I first used impale. Course, now that I think of it, I seem to remember that at least 1 mob in the spawn would run as soon as you started wailing on them anyway.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Debuffs and Damage Over Time effects both cause foes to flee. The effect is kind of ridiculous. I am rather confident that it has become worse over the years than it was originally - indeed I'm not sure original foes ever ran away short of outright terror effects. Now, however, it is ridiculous, IMNSHO.
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The only time I really notice it is when I turn it up past +3. Anything below and the mobs die before they get out of spine burst range.
I made a spine/fire for farming, however mobs just run away. I'm thinking it's quills because they removed the fear component from burn. If this is the case I have to run to red side to grab the Mu patron, or go back to farming with my Elec/SD.