On higher population servers I doubt it will be an issue. On lower population servers you will have to do what is done now for some of the taskforces that aren't run regularly. Schedule them on the forums or with your Supergroup/group of friends.
Then, when the new carrot is placed on the stick everyone will want to get their characters ready and prepared for the new shinies and we'll get hit with an influx of people wanting to do the old stuff.
Also, with the server list merge coming, some of the lower pop servers on both sides *might* see an increase in activity. Will trial runs decrease in frequency? Most likely, but not to ghost town levels.
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Whats the definition of Casual we are looking at here?|
Originally Posted by DuceyKins
Right now it is the "honeymoon" stage, simple to get into a BAF or Lambada league. But what happens when the already small player base finally gets their fix of Incarnate stuff? Will the requirements for how many people are needed be turned down a few to accommodate smaller leagues? Or will people that play casually be left in the dust and have only tumbleweeds to accompany them in the new trials?
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I play probably 2-3 hours a night so I know I am not a casual player but allow me to make this observation.
I tend to play each character for about an hour to get one BAF and one Lambda done. This pace has unlocked the double level shift and tier 3 judgment on 2 toons and I will have a few more done this week.
So I am comfortable saying that even an hour a night will get your main done in a week tops. If you get the right drop tables you may shave a day or two off that pace even. If you can only play a few days a week then it might take a month.
Now if your on a low pop server and for some reason are trying to run half a dozen or more alts thru the trials on one hour a night it might be a problem. I think at that point people have to take a step back and see that not all 50's are meant to be made into incarnates.
Global: @Kelig
People are still advertising shardtastic ITFs months after 19 and 19.5. Shouldn't working on Alpha be dead now?
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What's in issue 21? Incarnate content. Issue 22? Incarnate content. Issue 23? Incarnate content. Issue 24? Probably more incarnate content. Issue 25? Not sure, but I'm guessing more incarnate content. Issue 26? It's not that much of a stretch to guess more incarnate content.|
Originally Posted by DuceyKins
Right now it is the "honeymoon" stage, simple to get into a BAF or Lambada league. But what happens when the already small player base finally gets their fix of Incarnate stuff? Will the requirements for how many people are needed be turned down a few to accommodate smaller leagues? Or will people that play casually be left in the dust and have only tumbleweeds to accompany them in the new trials?
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Two or three YEARS from now, when they're done with the unlocks and all tiers of incarnate powers are had by most, maybe this will be a relevant question. But seriously, if you're worried about a hypothetical event two years or more away consider taking meds. Or stopping the meds you're on. One or the other ought to help.
Especially since the devs have spoken about solo ways to get incarnate credit.
Hell, if you're insane and lazy you can grind it all on shards from the wall in cimerora or rikti warzone borea missions. And you can do that right now.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Depends if the new trials are the same as far as rewards go or not. Will Praterian Hamidon and Keyes (next incarnate trials) just add more rewards to collect like new currency and new components. Or will they have threads and the same components. By the time they come out, certain people will burnout from doing constant BAFs and Lambdas. I avoid this by doing one Lamda and one BAF each day for the Empyrean Merits. Should have my first very rare component by the end of the month assuming I am unlucky at getting them through the reward table. If new Incarnate content is available for first timers to unlock the early slots, then it doesn't matter that much if people are having a hard time finding a Lambda or BAF. Besides there is always SGs, channels, and the forums to form one when it dies out.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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Well, shards can be converted into threads. And since you get more shards in an ITF than threads in an incarnate trial... *shrug*
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
People are still advertising shardtastic ITFs months after 19 and 19.5. Shouldn't working on Alpha be dead now?
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-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Well, shards can be converted into threads. And since you get more shards in an ITF than threads in an incarnate trial... *shrug*
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You get more shards in an itf then a incarnate trial? really?
I get about 6-8 shards on a kill everything in our way itf, in an incarnate trial I get about 10 threads and usually between 4-6 astral merits which equal 4 threads each. The math just aint making sense. Not even close.
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My first 3 Lamda trials I got 1 empyrean merit, 1 astral merit and 8 threads. total from all of them combined. I also got 1 shard, which I think was a bug but I'm not going to complain.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
You get more shards in an itf then a incarnate trial? really?
I get about 6-8 shards on a kill everything in our way itf, in an incarnate trial I get about 10 threads and usually between 4-6 astral merits which equal 4 threads each. The math just aint making sense. Not even close. |
My last ITF I got 11 shards plus a component (equivalent of the astral merit).
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Well, shards can be converted into threads. And since you get more shards in an ITF than threads in an incarnate trial... *shrug*
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
You get more shards in an itf then a incarnate trial? really?
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My experience is different.
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I get between 3-4 shards per "shard ITF". I get between 10-28 threads per BAF trial, including Astrals. For me it's a no-brainer.
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That seems very low, even given your only successfully completing one of those trials. Although it is easier to not get astral merits in the lambda trial than in the BAF.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
My first 3 Lamda trials I got 1 empyrean merit, 1 astral merit and 8 threads. total from all of them combined. I also got 1 shard, which I think was a bug but I'm not going to complain.
My last ITF I got 11 shards plus a component (equivalent of the astral merit). |
Personally I generally get between both trials about 3-6 astral merits, 1 empyrean merit, 3-5 threads (they really don't seem to drop often for me), and 1 component reward (usually an uncommon piece). Lambda gives the lower end of astral merits usually and the BAF the higher.
My last ITF shard run got me two whole shards, but sometimes the RNG hates you ya know. Generally I'll get about 6-8 shards and the component from the thing.
I've found it significantly easier to slot the new incarnate powers than it was o fill the alpha slot.
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Don't forget that you also got at least 1 component form it. Also, those Lambdas failed to get all of the temp powers. People are getting better and getting all 20 temp powers is the rule not the exception nowadays which means you get 3 Astral Merits per trial,
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
My first 3 Lamda trials I got 1 empyrean merit, 1 astral merit and 8 threads. total from all of them combined. I also got 1 shard, which I think was a bug but I'm not going to complain.
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Only if you don't have alts to work on.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
People are still advertising shardtastic ITFs months after 19 and 19.5. Shouldn't working on Alpha be dead now?
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Well the ITF has literally thousands of enemies for you to defeat over the course of 4 missions, with a disproportionately large number of them being Bosses and EBs. The trials, on the other hand, are single missions whose minion/lt/boss ratio is closer to normal play. The BAF does provide more bosses, but it also has minions and LTs who don't fight back and hence, i BELIEVE, don't offer rewards outside of iXP.
Of course, maybe it is just perception. I apologize for making my observations sound like facts =)
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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I know for a fact that I've gotten several threads during the tower defense portion of the BAF. Not as sure, but fairly sure I've gotten other salvage and recipes as well.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Well the ITF has literally thousands of enemies for you to defeat over the course of 4 missions, with a disproportionately large number of them being Bosses and EBs. The trials, on the other hand, are single missions whose minion/lt/boss ratio is closer to normal play. The BAF does provide more bosses, but it also has minions and LTs who don't fight back and hence, i BELIEVE, don't offer rewards outside of iXP.
Of course, maybe it is just perception. I apologize for making my observations sound like facts =) |
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I have the e≈act opposite experience.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I've found it significantly easier to slot the new incarnate powers than it was o fill the alpha slot.
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I do have limited playtime but I logged 7 hours on one character last night. That character now has both master badges, a small stockpile of components (but not enough of teh specifically needed items to complete a single power once the slots are open unless I breakdown astrals) 32 threads 4 empyrean merits and 20-somthing high astral merits. She's at 88% BAF experience and 60-ish lamda experience.
The new stuff seems vastly harder. I solo'd the Alpha mission, bought a Grai matter, ran one ITF one Lady Gray and had my slot filled with a common. I'm at about 9 or 10 hours total after almost two weeks and the new ones aren't unlocked yet.
WAAAAAY harder.
Hell, in a month I got 12 characters to level shift on Alphas. In two weeks I have 1 character almost unlocked on judgment slot.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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I think the biggest issue here is the iXP needed to unlock the slot. It feels more repetitive to do the same content half a dozen times to be able to slot anything in the slot. However, once you do get the slot unlocked, you'll have enough incarnate components to slot way more than a common. By the time I got Judgement unlocked, I had enough salvage to slot it with a rare, if I wanted to. (I held on to threads and only made an uncommon.)|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
I have the e≈act opposite experience.
I do have limited playtime but I logged 7 hours on one character last night. That character now has both master badges, a small stockpile of components (but not enough of teh specifically needed items to complete a single power once the slots are open unless I breakdown astrals) 32 threads 4 empyrean merits and 20-somthing high astral merits. She's at 88% BAF experience and 60-ish lamda experience. The new stuff seems vastly harder. I solo'd the Alpha mission, bought a Grai matter, ran one ITF one Lady Gray and had my slot filled with a common. I'm at about 9 or 10 hours total after almost two weeks and the new ones aren't unlocked yet. WAAAAAY harder. Hell, in a month I got 12 characters to level shift on Alphas. In two weeks I have 1 character almost unlocked on judgment slot. |
If the slot had been unlocked through another mechanism, I could have put a common in it after probably 2 trial runs, which is about the same investment as a common alpha. However, since the it takes several more runs to actually be able to slot anything, it feels like it takes longer.
If you're looking at just slotting commons, Alpha is way faster because of the mechanics of the slot, but by the time you get to the rare level, the other slots seem to fill faster.
...I forgot what experience means.
Also, while the devs are saying that Astral and Emp merits will be used for other things in the future, there is no harm in convertin them down now (especially the Astral merits) as it will allow you to get more threads and unlock your boosts much faster.
I play one or two hours per night, when I have the chance to play (RL tends to get in the way sometimes... those pesky BFs!).
Right before I20 I finished Tier 4 on two alphas. And have some 3 others unlocked and slotted at tier 1.
Since I20 started I played only one incarnate toon, and got her to Interface 3 (x2, preparing for Interface 4), Judgement 3, Lore 2 and Destiny 1.
I also leveled a bit two non-fiddies... one from 25 to 29, one from 35 to 40.
That assuming 2 hours per night. A little more on the weekend, but some days on the middle of the week i didnt connected...
It feels to me that its faster than Alpha.
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I suspect this is a big part of it. Even on my completely gimped defender (and I say that not as a dis to defenders but because only about half of his slots have anything in them) I was able to solo the entire alpha arc in under an hour. Another 3 hours of TFs and the alpha was slotted and good to go. As I said, over 10 hours into the trials and still nothing unlocked. I will have to break down astrals to make even a common as I don't have the actual components I need and only have enough threads from drops to craft 1.|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
I think the biggest issue here is the iXP needed to unlock the slot. It feels more repetitive to do the same content half a dozen times to be able to slot anything in the slot. However, once you do get the slot unlocked, you'll have enough incarnate components to slot way more than a common. By the time I got Judgement unlocked, I had enough salvage to slot it with a rare, if I wanted to. (I held on to threads and only made an uncommon.)
If the slot had been unlocked through another mechanism, I could have put a common in it after probably 2 trial runs, which is about the same investment as a common alpha. However, since the it takes several more runs to actually be able to slot anything, it feels like it takes longer. If you're looking at just slotting commons, Alpha is way faster because of the mechanics of the slot, but by the time you get to the rare level, the other slots seem to fill faster. |
I did consume 4 of my threads for exp, but when I saw the conversion rate was about as crappy as buying prestige I decided to skip that for now.
On the other hand, once notice of the week came out I was able to run those over and over and over and over with multiple characters in one day and get each many notices built up. As I have no interest in tie r4 of anything, I broke down all notices after the first and got to my tier 3 extraordinarily fast on all of my 50s. There's no real equivalent for the thread-side of things because even the empyrean merits don't become enough to craft 2-3 components from a single breakdown. If they were worth 60-120 threads it would be the equivalent of the notice breakdown into 6-12 shards. But they're not. And astral breakdowns are a joke. You need more astrals to craft 1 component than you do shards to craft 1 component (5 astral merits compared to 4 shards).
Edit: Please note that I'm not complaining about it taking too long, nor saying that I feel it should be sped up. Just saying that Alpha was much easier.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I think worrying about what might happen 5 months from now is far less productive than doing something today.
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The difference is you can get only 1 notice a week. You can get 1 empiran a day and as many astral merits as your willing to earn. |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
On the other hand, once notice of the week came out I was able to run those over and over and over and over with multiple characters in one day and get each many notices built up. As I have no interest in tie r4 of anything, I broke down all notices after the first and got to my tier 3 extraordinarily fast on all of my 50s. There's no real equivalent for the thread-side of things because even the empyrean merits don't become enough to craft 2-3 components from a single breakdown. If they were worth 60-120 threads it would be the equivalent of the notice breakdown into 6-12 shards. But they're not. And astral breakdowns are a joke. You need more astrals to craft 1 component than you do shards to craft 1 component (5 astral merits compared to 4 shards).
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So 7 empirans a week at 8-10 threads = 56-70 threads. Thats 2 or 3 components a week just like the notices.
Plus I'm averaging 5 astrals from each BAF. So with only 2 runs a night thats another 280 threads a week for over 300 total. Converting is the way to go. Yes, they MIGHT be useful for something next issue or the one after that, but it is much more useful to have your incarnate powers for those months that they are ONLY used to breakdown into threads. Especially the astral merits, the drop rate is way too frequent.
Unlocking the slots takes longer than Alpha, but once that is done everything else is much, much easier.
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Only if you get the rare and very rare reward tables and/or can run the trials every day. At least with the alpha there was an absolutely fool-proof way to get a Notice and it wasn't terribly difficult.|
Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Unlocking the slots takes longer than Alpha, but once that is done everything else is much, much easier.
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Granted, I haven't had a problem getting rare rewards on my 2 incarnates I've done so far but I've heard lots of stories of other people who have given up and are grinding the E-merits needed to craft them.
I asked about the original topic of my SG the other night, where most of them have T4's and T3's in all 5 incarnate slots whereas I have T2's and T3's in three slots. They said "no prob, we'll put together an 8 man lambda and escort the baby incarnates through it to help them"... which warmed my heart but I wonder what kind of reward tables the "baby" will qualify for. Not terribly worried about it but it's something to make you go "hmmmm".
Right now it is the "honeymoon" stage, simple to get into a BAF or Lambada league. But what happens when the already small player base finally gets their fix of Incarnate stuff? Will the requirements for how many people are needed be turned down a few to accommodate smaller leagues? Or will people that play casually be left in the dust and have only tumbleweeds to accompany them in the new trials?