I was leaning towards Barrier and the +def/+dam res.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
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Originally Posted by UberRod
I was leaning towards Barrier and the +def/+dam res.
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Totally Barrier, I have it top tiered in beta on a few toons including a fire/mace, it's win.
The only downside is the residual aura might give you a headache if you're squishy towards that type of thing. ;]
On my Invul, I opted for the right hand branch of Rebirth to start.
Why:
I already cap my HP with Dull Pain*
I already cap S/L Resistance with Tough, and cap the other damage types via Unstoppable.
I already cap Defense from IO bonuses.
Regeneration is the untapped layer of mitigation, and additionally, Regeneration gets a lot from being layered over those existing forms of mitigation, especially from high HP.
One of the things Invul lacks, IMO, is an additional heal to bridge the long gaps between Dull Pain. Rebirth provides this. The Regeneration also provides some Psi coverage and helps a little with damage that is say, is un-resistible and untyped.
From the very specific perspective of teaming:
Just about everyone is going to go Barrier.
Destiny is a team buff. If even just one or two of my teammates are popping off their Barrier, I contribute more from being different and I gain the benefits of their Barriers.
Also, it never hurts to occasionally be able to toss a heal at your team.
Lastly, since there's nothing stopping people from having as many Destiny powers as they want, why choose? Barrier can easily be my second Destiny goal.
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It's gonna depend on your build. That's kind of a cop-out answer, but it's the truth.
Rebirth appears to offer the highest numerical benefit over time -- that is, when compared with similar bonuses available elsewhere (through powers and IO bonuses). The Very Rare Rebirth Destiny offers (per Dispari's excellent guide) +1600% regen for the first 10 seconds, +600% for the next 20s, +400% for the next 30s, and +200% for the last 60s (120s total).
If you average that out over 120 seconds, you end up with +433.3% regeneration. That's ignoring Rebirth's up-front heal.
You're gonna have a hard time finding that much regeneration purely from IO bonuses. I'd venture to say that that number is practically impossible to reach from IO bonuses alone. Heck, even if we dismiss the average and just look at the lowest sustainable value (+200% regeneration), that's a massive boost. For an HP-capped Tanker, we're looking at an extra (3534 / 240 ) * 2 = 29.4 HP/sec.
The other Destiny boosts offer useful bonuses, but their bonuses are less apt to be averaged out. For instance, Barrier starts out at a truly immense +90%/+90% Resistance/Defense for the first 7.5% seconds, but then it quickly declines down to +7.5%, and then +5% for the last minute. Basically, Barrier gives you godmode for 10 seconds out of every 120, and a much smaller mini godmode for the next 20 seconds (+32.5% DEF/RES).
The rest of the time, Barrier offers a potentially very useful, but still comparatively small in IO-set terms, bonus. It's not fair to say that Barrier offers the average of its mitigation, because mitigation is proportional.
None of which is to say that Barrier is bad. It's potentially very good. Even the smallest bonus it offers (+5% DEF/RES) can be absolutely crucial for a given build that's knocking on the door of the soft-cap -- or, in an Incarnate Trial context, even for a build that already has the soft cap, because it gets you that much closer to flooring the higher ToHit values in incarnate content. In a team setting, stacked (and preferably staggered) Barriers are likely to be the most powerful single Incarnate ability (with the possible exception of stacked Judgement nukes).
All of the above is just a very long way of saying that it depends, though, which brings us back to where we started. On an individual basis -- which is usually how we evaluate builds here, for good or ill -- Rebirth offers the highest bang for buck, but builds that are already high on healing and low on mitigation should go for Barrier first. Builds that are, for whatever reason, terribly hard-up for endurance recovery will naturally benefit from Ageless. Clarion's the only obvious hard sell here in Tanker land.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
On my Invul, I opted for the right hand branch of Rebirth to start
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One of the reasons I went for Barrier is to use it as mitigation for the Unstoppable crash. It has worked wonderfully in the two trials I have tried it in and I'm thinking about retooling back into an Unstoppable oriented Invul, which I haven't been since I3 or so.
Sir Zane (Lvl 50, Inv/SS/Nrg Tank);Atomic Jake (Lvl 50, Kin/Rad/Elec Defender)
Nikolai (Lvl 50, DM/EA/GW Brute);Raging Stallion (Lvl 50 MA/SR/Weap Scrapper)
Archmage Tristam (Lvl 50 Ill/Son/Psi Controller)
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-g=C800:5
I'm also planning on the Rebirth Radial Route (Heal/Regen) on my Inv Tanker for the extra heal and regen. It'll be awesome if I decide I want/need to solo something a bit harder than usual.
Do you think it's worth going the Heal/Max HP route for a Willpower tank with Rebirth to benefit from the already quite insane regeneration? I'm useless with numbers!
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Does that mean it's +Special doesn't affect Defense sets?
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Originally Posted by Obitus
Clarion's the only obvious hard sell here in Tanker land.
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Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
Off topic, but nice Avatar Fanservice. There a large version of the pic?
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From Dispari's guide, A tier 4 Rebirth Core Epiphany does the following:|
Originally Posted by Fanservice
Do you think it's worth going the Heal/Max HP route for a Willpower tank with Rebirth to benefit from the already quite insane regeneration?
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Rebirth Core Epiphany: 856.72 heal, +374.8 maxHP first 10s, 160.62 next 20s, 107.08 next 30s, 53.54 last 60s (120s total), 60ft radius
So for most of the duration, the +hp is quite small. Without crunching the numbers, I'm pretty sure you'll get more hp/sec regeneration from going for the +regen Radial route, despite the high regeneration you already have.
And the Regen would benefit the team a lot better than the HP. Regen it is then thanks!
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Yes there is! Right here http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5583/fansy.jpg|
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
Off topic, but nice Avatar Fanservice. There a large version of the pic?
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But it's really huge for reasons I'm not too sure of.
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Still an awesome image.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
And the Regen would benefit the team a lot better than the HP. Regen it is then thanks!
Yes there is! Right here http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5583/fansy.jpg But it's really huge for reasons I'm not too sure of. |
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The +Special will work, but it is possible the +defense in Barrier is worth more anyway. I am considering Clarion on my WP/Mace just so I could buff my team with it though, since I have few needs, I may as well help the team. Ageless and Barrier are appealing as well though. Which one has the Resists effects? That is the one I will likely settle on (I think it is Ageless). I haven't given much thought yet for my Fiery tanker, but the +max HP is appealing, though I already have a good heal with HF.
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Originally Posted by Computer
Does that mean it's +Special doesn't affect Defense sets?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Depends on my tank.
My fire/fire/fire will go Barrier, my up n comming inv/ss will go rebirth
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
Im a sucker for theme...
As such I was forced to take Barrier.
Rebirth however I think would have given my tank a bigger bang for buck. But didn't fit the theme of the character.
Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu
Regen Rebirth is great, especially if you took the spiritual alpha.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
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I'm waiting to hear about a 8 man team all with T4 Rebirth Reg. All cycleing thier rebirth... evil
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Regen Rebirth is great, especially if you took the spiritual alpha.
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Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
On my Invul, I opted for the right hand branch of Rebirth to start.
Why: I already cap my HP with Dull Pain* I already cap S/L Resistance with Tough, and cap the other damage types via Unstoppable. I already cap Defense from IO bonuses. Regeneration is the untapped layer of mitigation, and additionally, Regeneration gets a lot from being layered over those existing forms of mitigation, especially from high HP. One of the things Invul lacks, IMO, is an additional heal to bridge the long gaps between Dull Pain. Rebirth provides this. The Regeneration also provides some Psi coverage and helps a little with damage that is say, is un-resistible and untyped. From the very specific perspective of teaming: Just about everyone is going to go Barrier. Destiny is a team buff. If even just one or two of my teammates are popping off their Barrier, I contribute more from being different and I gain the benefits of their Barriers. Also, it never hurts to occasionally be able to toss a heal at your team. Lastly, since there's nothing stopping people from having as many Destiny powers as they want, why choose? Barrier can easily be my second Destiny goal. . |
Bingo!
Rebirth just made Empathy Obsoleto
My Invuln is capped defense to all, cap resist to S/L 40 to Elements and Energies and Perma / Capped Dull Pain and HP. Rebirth just adds way too much to my build not to take it. Your talking about a 1300+ heal on top of what Dull Pain offers, and your regen from the Rebirth gives you almost cap regen if you're running the Very Rare and to top it off, the Spiritual from the Alpha Slot helps this even more.
As a side note, take the Diamagnetic Very Rare which offers a 100% Proc chance for a -tohit which works on all your attack powers, and will stack nice with capped defense, not to mention your Lore Pets should you take any also take advantage of the Diamagnetic.
Follow that up with a Void Judgement power and you are golden. You will be surprised what your Invuln can now do ...hahaha
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Beefcake, are you reading my build? lol This was EXACTLY my thinking. I went Diamagnetic when I team tank for the extra boost to my Invincibility (thinking swap in a Reactive when I solo) and I am working very hard to get to the Tier 3 Right-path Rebirth (Tier 2 right now) for my regen. RA's? Pfft, who needs ya? |
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Bingo!
Rebirth just made Empathy Obsoleto My Invuln is capped defense to all, cap resist to S/L 40 to Elements and Energies and Perma / Capped Dull Pain and HP. Rebirth just adds way too much to my build not to take it. Your talking about a 1300+ heal on top of what Dull Pain offers, and your regen from the Rebirth gives you almost cap regen if you're running the Very Rare and to top it off, the Spiritual from the Alpha Slot helps this even more. As a side note, take the Diamagnetic Very Rare which offers a 100% Proc chance for a -tohit which works on all your attack powers, and will stack nice with capped defense, not to mention your Lore Pets should you take any also take advantage of the Diamagnetic. Follow that up with a Void Judgement power and you are golden. You will be surprised what your Invuln can now do ...hahaha |
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Capped defense on invul? I'd be interested in seeing that build but I'll just ask you next time I see you on otherwise. I tried to build for psi resist/defense, but if you've got that too it would probably be superior.
With my invul/energy I've been rocking the +45% damage alpha, the -regen proc, +regen destiny, and ion and so far have been fairly happy with the situation. The added punch on the judgement and ET is nice, but when (if?) they fix Ion I think going over to the -to hit would be a darn solid way to go. The destiny unlock has certainly made popping unstoppable less of a pain these days, although I found that Eye of the Magus was a suitable anti-crash when used with Gift of the Ancients even before. Now, they're just bonuses.
I have only one T4 destiny, so I can't really give an unbiased objective comparison, but I can say that on my electric/fire
Barrier kicks some very serious [censored]
With big, heavy boots.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
The added regeneration is friggin awesome. I thought of the +hit points... but the continuous regen added more to the build considering how low the added hit point bonus is.
I have reactive and diamagnetic for solo and team builds.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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I'm pretty sure everyone was talking about the old soft cap (45%) instead of the hard cap (225%). The old soft cap is easy. You can old soft cap Invulnerability on a Scrapper with one target in range and without Barrier. This is a rather rough draft, but typed defenses between 53% and 56% with one target in range (68%-70% when surrounded). Psionic wasn't completely neglected, and sits at 26%, though perhaps it could be better.|
Originally Posted by SpaceJew
Capped defense on invul? I'd be interested in seeing that build but I'll just ask you next time I see you on otherwise. I tried to build for psi resist/defense, but if you've got that too it would probably be superior.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Great info...I haven't slotted Destiny on any tanks yet.
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
What kind of census can we come to on these as far as which is best for which sets?
I'm leaning toward always having Ageless as a backup due to the rez ability (squishies might die and tanks can then rez) but for a main power to use I'm thinking the heal/+regen is the best fit for all but WP tanks.
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