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That's the problem...they're sending mixed messages. "These Trials are extremely tough, and require expert coordination and tactics. So we set up the LFG tab that tosses casual players together in minimum-sized PuGs. Good luck!" |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Actually they said they want the content to be accessed by many players as possible that wanted to advance.
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99458: The Unbearable Being of Lightness
191775: How the Other Half Lives
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Quote:
No, you don't "have" to do anything.|
Originally Posted by Miss Chief
So now I have to take Weave and combat jumping to make the trial survivable and fill my tray exclusively with purples?
I also hate to tell you this, but when you run invinc you won't just have one bad guy in range, you're likely to be hitting double figures. All with damage types you're weak against. And who all are likely to use ranged attacks to do it. |
You don't "have" to run incarnate trials. You don't "have" to post threads like this that make you sound like an overly entitled 3 year old. You don't even "have" to play this game or any game for that matter.
Are you like this in game? If you die randomly during one of the trials, do you then spend the next 10-15 minutes complaining about it in team chat? Do you just wait to die once so you can complain and make sure everyone's attention is on your negativity during the trial? Or do you take a minute or two before the raid starts to ask the raid leader to pair you with a thermal or a sonic or any other support build that might be able to help you?
Of course, you've already proven that it takes less skill at playing this game to fail miserably at it and then complain viciously about it over numerous threads than it is to figure out why you failed and ask teammates, which you have in mass numbers, to lend a hand.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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I am in 100% agreement.|
Originally Posted by JKCarrier
That's the problem...they're sending mixed messages. "These Trials are extremely tough, and require expert coordination and tactics. So we set up the LFG tab that tosses casual players together in minimum-sized PuGs. Good luck!"
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There was a lot of resistance in beta from players being queued up with PUGS to do these trials. It is obvious isn't it? The content isn't easy...
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Eiko, I really do hope you don't consider yourself a "casual" player. That'd be like a millionaire politician running a campaign about how he's just like regular middle class common folk.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
While I'm going to assume you're not stupid and thus realise that time spent posting on forums doesn't automatically translate into time available to play the game, I should also point out that it can take a minute or less to make a short (or maybe a bit more to make a long) forum post, and that you can't really get very much game playing done in that time.
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It's disingenuous at best and outright detrimental to forum discourse at worse.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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This is by design. |
Originally Posted by CaptainWeightWatcher
TBH my fort is hurting on these trials. Low hp and no resists coupled with the higher to hti chance makes me consume inpirations faster and cant really manage them when i have to run 4 sturdies to be able to withstand some of the damage(lambda)
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End game is about making all your work to level cap pointless and you have to rebuild your character with incarnate powers to grow strong enough...eventually.
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No, Incarnate Content are trials that aren't likely to be beaten first time out by random teams and that's messing with everyone's head.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
No one wants to admit it but I will.
Incarnate content is a "gear reset" to level the playing field between SO builds and IO builds. Problem is making both SO builds and IO builds feel mediocre sends mixed messages about the future direction. |
Every issue people have with the enemies were programmed that way to take future Incarnate abilities, one's that we can unlock since yesterday, into consideration. The fact that so many teams failed yesterday mixed with the "casual" players on this forum who were going to hate the trials based entirely on them existing have created a mini-panic of hyperbole and dread.
Meanwhile, people who understood the design of the trials already have their Interface or Destiny slots unlocked.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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That and, if they were easy, you'd see people less likely to keep running them like you do on a normal night around Tin Mage or Apex if neither is the Strike Target.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
This is by design.
End game is about making all your work to level cap pointless and you have to rebuild your character with incarnate powers to grow strong enough...eventually. |
Compare and contrast: Yesterday I did both the new Task Force and Strike Force. I have to do them one more time each to help my supergroup mates get the badge... then I'm pretty much done with them unless they are strike targets.
The Incarnate Trials would be the same for many players if they were easily beaten by a team of random players first go.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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They make it fair by making IO and SO builds feeling mediocre. The carrot is that you have to chase incarnate content to feel normal, and then eventually super powered again.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If that were true, I'd call utter BS on it.
I see no way to make it 'fair' against IO builds without doubly penalising SO builds. I dread to think what the raids woulda been like if Alpha wasn't IO'd to the hilt... |
My question for those that are having a hard time staying alive:
What the hell is the rest of your team doing?
If you're not coordinated, you won't win. It's not any simpler than that.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
My question for those that are having a hard time staying alive:
What the hell difference does it make? "Dying" in this game has such an insignificant penalty that it seems kind of silly to me to get all worked up about it. I mean, for crying out loud, you're level 50 already. Is it going to make getting to level 51 that much slower? Oh yeah, that's right, you can't get to level 51. You have nothing to lose when you "die."
I understand that it can be frustrating to fail at a challenge such as this. But my gosh, man, I think it's even sadder that there are people in this game who expect to be able to succeed at what has been pitched as the toughest content in this game with one or two runs without faceplanting. Even if you faceplant over and over... So what!!? Get your butt up and do it again! After you log off tonight, that debt will all just magically fade away while you accumulate patrol experience anyway!
And I know I'm beating a dead horse, but if you don't like these trials, I'll say again, so what!!? A lot of other people seem to like them just fine. Do you think that you're the Privileged One, the person that Paragon Studios aims to please, no matter how much other people get bored and/or like things that you don't? I'm just so tired of this entitlement attitude, that the game has to not just be fun for you, but to 100% please you all the time, no exceptions, everyone else be damned.
Now, that's not to say that these new trials are perfect. You know what else wasn't perfect? Issue 1. Also, Issue 2. And you know, Issue 3 had some things that people didn't like, either. Come to think of it, let's see, Issues 4, 5, 6 (Enhancement Diversification!), 7, 8, 9 (End-game loot!), 10, 11, 12... Aw hell, every issue has had its detractors! There seem to be some here who think that unless an issue is 100% perfect, that every single player bar none loves it, they should just go back to the drawing board and start over. With all due respect, if Paragon Studios operated according to your standard of excellence, we'd still be playing the original City of Heroes game that was released in 2004, with maybe a few non-controversial (is there such a thing?) bug fixes.
So seriously, chill out. These trials are winnable. As others have pointed out, you will get your shinies unlocked. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But soon, and for the rest of your life. I will personally guarantee you that in a year, all of this sound and fury will signify nothing. It's likely that you will have forgotten all about your frustration yesterday and today. Hopefully, if you run across this thread at that time, you'll realize how silly it all comes off as.
Edit: And lest you think I'm some sort of "dev fanboy" or some kind of raid zealot, I'm really not. I like the devs, but they've irritated me a few times on occasion. You know, just like almost every other person I've run across in my day. As for end game raids, I really don't care one way or another about them. I haven't even done these "ZOMG THEIR HARD" trials yet, but I'm looking forward to it. I fully expect to "die" many times. I'll probably say something like, "Crap!" when I do, get back up, and go at it again. I probably won't even be on a winning one for a week or two, maybe longer. That's okay, it's not like I'm not going to be playing the game in a month or two and I have to get it right now.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Incidentally, I took my dark armor tank to the BAF. It was ridiculous. I said out loud, "I'm one hell of a tank. I've tanked Recluse and Bobcat. And I'm running away from a robot boss."|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Congratulations Miss Chief, you have figured out that you need to ADAPT.
The same mindless button mashing that has always worked will not anymore. Learn. Adapt. Grow. |
It's not a matter of 'mindless button mashing', or adapting in any way. All our characters have kryptonite -- energy damage and recharge debuffs are mine -- and the new trials are packed full of it. There's no way to adapt one's build or playstyle to handle this new content. The only hope is in coordinated multi-team support, which does not and will never exist in PUG leagues.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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Because my idea of fun is to set goals for myself and attain them. 'Defeating an enemy' is a good goal. 'Committing suicide 100 times' is not. |
Originally Posted by TonyV
My question for those that are having a hard time staying alive:
What the hell difference does it make? "Dying" in this game has such an insignificant penalty that it seems kind of silly to me to get all worked up about it. I mean, for crying out loud, you're level 50 already. Is it going to make getting to level 51 that much slower? Oh yeah, that's right, you can't get to level 51. You have nothing to lose when you "die." |
Content balanced around the concept that characters are able to die over and over again is not fun. Period. It's a bad, bad, bad game design.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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Interresting. I died quite a few times on my IOed out expensive Scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Miss Chief
Congratulations Paragon Studios. You just made one of my Invulnerability Scrappers powers completely pointless, and IMO made her completely piontless too.
Which one? Invincibility. It's pretty much a 'must take' for any invuln character as it provides a good chunk of your Defence and also gives you a nice little to hit boost. Well tonight I ran a lambda trial. And I got creamed repeatedly. Ad I don't mean I died a bit and got annoyed or I died 5 or 6 times. I managed to rack up a full quantity of debt on my level 50 scrapper within 20 minutes. Yes she has tier 4 and yes she has a few sets through her build but she's not softcapped (and I don't see why she should have to be either if the Dev's continue with their 'IO's are optional, we haven't made the game any tougher' mantra) but she was completely useless. Her major points are S+L Resistance which is next to useless thanks to all the fire and energy flying around, she has very little ranged defence which for a melee based character who should be 'in there' shouldn't be a necessity either. Basically she's now completely pointless and incredibly painful to play on the Incarnate trials. I feel like giving up on her and she used to be my favourite character. The trial should be difficult yes, but IMo they've taken it too far. it suits some characters perfectly and practically encourages people to softcap, simple because just about any level of resistance is utterly pointless. Congratz Pragon, you just relegated one of my favourite to 'No i don't want to play her on this, she'll spend more time face down and in the hospital than fighting' league.  |
So did that IOed out Granite tanker I ran with.
What you need are team buffs, and likely getting that Destiny slot unlocked.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Bleeding into the pavement after Marauder and his merry mob of Bosses and LTs curbstomped us in five seconds.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
My question for those that are having a hard time staying alive:
What the hell is the rest of your team doing? If you're not coordinated, you won't win. It's not any simpler than that. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeessssssss.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Except the Romans have base level accuracy and don't spam AoEs like they are going outta fashion, meaning that, while Rommy might get heal buffs off pets, they are still alive to be throwing damage right back in his face at all times.
Romans also don't come +4 as standard, with whole mobs being made of rediculously powerful, AoE spamming Bosses that ca- Ok, no, not true there. Praefects CAN one/two shot me still. But they also obey normal acc laws, making it a lot less likely, whereas Commanders just run up and BAM. Down. And I see no ones bothered to explain why the Artillery is necessary? Thats my main gripe. |
And where before people thought it was challenging, NOW we have... Very Rare Alphas that allow us to be so strong as to make a 3 man ITF readily doable.
And in 3 weeks (probably more like 1 week!), we'll have large groups of people with multiple Incarnate slots filled so as to make the TF MUCH MUCH easier to accomplish. And in a month or 2 we'll have a buncha people with multiple VERY RARE incarnate enhancements slotted, and these TFs might begin to seem even trivial.
And even when you fail the TF, you are still making progress. Does anyone STILL NOT GET THAT?
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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So. Get. Back. Up.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Bleeding into the pavement after Marauder and his merry mob of Bosses and LTs curbstomped us in five seconds.
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Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Really? We needed ITF rewards to really stand a chance at completing the ITF before? "Oh, just get a level shift!" Yeah... so it's no longer "Hey, let's be alt friendly." Bravo. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Exactly. We've tread this same road before.
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We have not "tread the same road before." This is more BS "Raid to get rewards to raid" that WoW and the like do - part of the reason I avoid those to begin with.
My experiences with this crap last night (and looking at the costs if you *don't* raid-to-get-crap-to-raid) has me thinking I should just ignore the system all together... oh, wait, it's hinted that this is because of the "Coming Storm." Hmmm. Wonder what we'll probably need to do *jack* against it, and/or actually see any of that content...
/me wonders if I'm supposed to be Alliance or Horde in this game.
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This is not a good thing, IMHO.
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Originally Posted by galadiman
Yeeeeeeeeeeeessssssss.
And where before people thought it was challenging, NOW we have... Very Rare Alphas that allow us to be so strong as to make a 3 man ITF readily doable. |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Really? We needed ITF rewards to really stand a chance at completing the ITF before? "Oh, just get a level shift!" Yeah... so it's no longer "Hey, let's be alt friendly." Bravo.
We have not "tread the same road before." This is more BS "Raid to get rewards to raid" that WoW and the like do - part of the reason I avoid those to begin with. My experiences with this crap last night (and looking at the costs if you *don't* raid-to-get-crap-to-raid) has me thinking I should just ignore the system all together... oh, wait, it's hinted that this is because of the "Coming Storm." Hmmm. Wonder what we'll probably need to do *jack* against it, and/or actually see any of that content... /me wonders if I'm supposed to be Alliance or Horde in this game. |
I am a blood elf male because I am so beautiful combing my long, elegant hair.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I am a blood elf male because I am so beautiful combing my long, elegant hair.
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Please let that be the hair on your head.
Lamda is not hard with good leadership and a full 16. No one's running it with 8 until they're fully incarnatededed.
You have to do the two trials over and over again to put it on farm status, but also to be able to do the new trials, but with a new gear reset for the new incarnate powers most likely to be added. I think I have seen this end game design before ....about a decade ago...
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What the hell do you think I do?|
Originally Posted by galadiman
So. Get. Back. Up.
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And die again.
And die again.
And again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and bloody again because the team is getting killed off by the huge mob of Battle Orb spamming Bosses and LTs!
We killed the Portals! We killed the other mobs! We take on Marauder and DIE. What the ruddy hell do you suggest, oh font of all bleeding wisdom?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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My main is an Alpha-Slot level shifted MA/SR as well. I DID play - I did a few Lambda Sector trials last night. All were LFG PUGs with 8 members. And, though we failed every attempt, they were TREMENDOUS fun and I'll be online every night this week running them.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
The only level 50 that I bothered unlocking the level shift with is my MA/SR scrapper. I can see how other soft-capped-defense sets can use alternative builds to mitigate these issues, but with everyone saying how the high-level-game is balanced against the soft cap... what should I look at doing with the /SR scrapper... aside from playing it like a nearsighted blaster.
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But be prepared for some disheartening.
I died. I died a lot. I died more than the rest of the team. Even the scaling resistances of my passive defenses had no effect. There's just NO WAY to avoid death (defeat) with only Defenses to protect you. An SR has become a squishy, you may as well run it with your toggles off. (Really, this is serious advice) But don't listen to those bitter SR players that are saying "My entire Secondary has been neutered!" It's not true. Quickness still works fine.
One good thing to come out of it was: I have *NEVER* been at the debt cap with my MA/SR. I can't say that now!
But this is where your team mates come in, with buffs and such. SR's survival will depend on 1) Buffs 2) Surrounding yourself with enough meat (other players) and hoping they get it instead of you or 3) Finding a nice, safe place to rest and watch the rest of your team sweat for you and watch the rewards of their efforts reign down upon you.
The trials are tough for most people right now and it is disheartening for SR. Its not easy becoming a squishy after 6 1/2 years of playing as uberman. But its fun, and fast, and eventually you'll amass enough power where you can blow through this trial fast.
But that day is not today.
So just play, have fun and die a lot. The Debt Cap is a nice guy when you get to know him.
American Dawg, Starblaze, Neanderthal Joe, Shining Dawn, Tokamak Dragon, Stinger Incarnate, Burning Tyger, Dover Tornado, Big Roach, Dark Paladin, Archmage Wylde, Kings Row Hornet, Prancing Deer
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Edgar Nightcraft, Doc Cicada, Chupa Macabre, Dr Forchtenstein, Blood Shrew
TBH my fort is hurting on these trials. Low hp and no resists coupled with the higher to hti chance makes me consume inpirations faster and cant really manage them when i have to run 4 sturdies to be able to withstand some of the damage(lambda)