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The problem is that the current system will force some people to wait years before they can participate in that end game. The problem is not that they can't participate tomorrow, or next week, or in three months, but that they may never be able to participate, or will only reach that point so far in the future, and after so much immeasurable and imperceptible progress, that they can't even conceive of reaching that end game, if it's even still available by the time they finish the grind.|
Originally Posted by Fixxer
ANYONE can participate in the end game... the problem is people want the rewards NOW.
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| It's exhausting to repeat this over and over.. your PERCEPTION of how fast you get rewards is your perception. |
My perception is based on math, not desire, intention or perceived entitlement. Outside of teams, players will have only one option for progression through the Incarnate system, and thus eventual participation in the end game, that being shards. Shard-based progression at a rate of 10 per day will permit a player to slot tier 4 boosts in all of the next 4 Incarnate slots... 2.3 years from the day I20 goes live. Before you accuse anyone else of having skewed perception, think about that.
If you would like a demonstration of how unrelated to perception this really is, start a new character and turn off XP at level 1. For every 1000 minions, or 150 lieutenants, or 50 bosses, turn on XP for one defeat, then turn it off again and leave it off for the next 1000 minions, 150 lieutenants or 50 bosses. That's what shard-based progression in the Incarnate system will be as it stands now.
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| And one more time: NO ONE is making you do incarnate stuff to enjoy your toons. If you have enjoyed them for the past 6+ years what has changed.. oh yeah.. your desire to be UBER/LEET/etc... |
Please don't talk down to other players for not being satisfied with being told, "Just play, maybe if you get there before the game is shut down permanently, you might get to experience it". It's less likely that they're disgruntled because they're power-gaming psychos who care only about IWIN buttons and much more likely because they simply don't like the prospect of several Issues and years going by with no way for them to access anything therein, or having to grind constantly for months just to feel like they're beginning to progress beyond 50 (which is the whole point of the Incarnate system and end-game, progression).
You are correct, no-one is forcing anyone else to go through the Incarnate system. However, it was presented as a method of progressing beyond 50 for everyone. No-one had to twist your arm to entice you to level up your favorite characters, did they? You leveled them up because you enjoyed playing them. No-one is holding a gun to our heads and demanding that we access the post-50 progression "or else *click*", but we want to in the same way and for the same reasons, because it represents growth and expansion for our favorite characters, further reason and purpose for them and more "stuff" to do with them.
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| Keeping up with the Jones' is always a frustrating race in ANYTHING you do in life (even in a casual game). |
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Actually, it was originally designed to mimic most of the conventional rules of MMOs of the day. Cryptic got incredibly lucky in that they missed almost all of their goals and ended up with a game that was casual friendly by sheer coincidence and that turned out not to be the disaster most MMO designers thought it would be at the time.|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I never said that this game was designed for my specific personal preferences. However, and I think you will agree, this game was originally designed towards the casual gamer. Not the elite power gamer.
I do not see the "end game" being anything near casual friendly. |
It has never deliberately *aimed* at "casual players" directly, from birth to two minutes ago. What it has tried to do is to be "casual friendly" which means the game isn't designed to appeal to them first and foremost, but is designed with the intent to give casual players as much access to as much of the game as is possible without compromising its design. Purple recipes, for example, are not casual friendly in and of themselves. But the invention system is, at least as I define casual-friendly. The fact that it contains elements that are not casual friendly is evidence of this game's design intent: it tries to give casual players access to most of the game, but there will always be things outside their reach, deliberately, because there will always be things for non-casual or hardcore players to pursue as well. One group isn't preeminent over the other.
The end game is very casual friendly to this point. Its not as accessible as the rest of the game, but that's not fundamentally different from saying level 45-50 is less accessible to a casual player than levels 25-30. The deeper the progress becomes, the higher the performance levels reach, the less relatively accessible to casual players the game will likely become. That is inevitable. But right now a casual player that teams can max out Alpha with less effort than it takes the average MMO player in other MMOs to find the end game much less progress in it.
If you don't team, it can be less accessible. If you spend very little time playing, it can also be less accessible. But anyone who thinks this game was specifically targeted at soloing players with heavy time constraints is not being realistic. I have sympathy for players in that situation, but I do not extend that sympathy to accepting the notion that this game's current design is predicated on the assumption that time constrained soloers are required to have access to all in-game rewards and progressional paths at rapid earning rates. This game tries to be solo-friendly. It tries to be casual friendly. It does not and in my opinion should not be bounded by the reward earning rates of the slowest possible players that can possibly exist by virtue of eliminating all but the slowest possible earning paths and then playing them for the minimum amount of credible playtime.
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I read your whole post with a vague sense of confusion, which I finally nailed down to this concept here.|
Originally Posted by Luminara
Outside of teams, players will have only one option for progression through the Incarnate system, and thus eventual participation in the end game, that being shards.
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I *think* that you're talking about 'the end game' and 'progress through the incarnate system' as though they're two different things. Is there some dev source for this that I haven't seen? Is there any indication that there is an end game system envisaged *beyond* progress through the incarnate levels? I'd kind of assumed -- and never noticed any statements to contradict -- that the end game we were getting *was* the incarnate trials that give progress through the incarnate levels. Is is actually the case that the trials are just a gateway, and there's going to be another chunk of content beyond that?
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Thank you for posting this.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...But right now a casual player that teams can max out Alpha with less effort than it takes the average MMO player in other MMOs to find the end game much less progress in it.
If you don't team, it can be less accessible. If you spend very little time playing, it can also be less accessible. But anyone who thinks this game was specifically targeted at soloing players with heavy time constraints is not being realistic. I have sympathy for players in that situation, but I do not extend that sympathy to accepting the notion that this game's current design is predicated on the assumption that time constrained soloers are required to have access to all in-game rewards and progressional paths at rapid earning rates. This game tries to be solo-friendly. It tries to be casual friendly. It does not and in my opinion should not be bounded by the reward earning rates of the slowest possible players that can possibly exist by virtue of eliminating all but the slowest possible earning paths and then playing them for the minimum amount of credible playtime. |
It put forth the viewpoint I have about both the end game and it's detractors in language that is much more civil than I typically care to use.
In all my years of MMO gaming, I have never understood why someone that limits themselves either through available play time or through being unable/unwilling to participate in certain activities like teaming, expects to get the same return on investment as those that will spend the time and energy to gain the rewards.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
What it comes down to, that some of the posters here have alluded to, is that the devs have done everything they can be expected to do to make the Incarnate system inclusive to everyone.
Every player in the game was given exactly the same opportunity to acquire the items in question as every other player. No one is being excluded by any criteria or factor that the devs have any control over. No one is excluded by AT, powerset, veteran status, SG membership, global channel membership, or badge count. The only things required to participate are an active account and a level 50 character, that's it.
Everyone has the same opportunity as everyone else. Whether you can take advantage of that opportunity is not something the devs need to take into consideration, because your playstyle preference and time availability are A) none of their business, and B) not their problem.
If you cannot participate because you lack the time, or are unwilling to team, then those are problems that are YOURS to solve. You cannot possibly expect the devs to solve a problem that they had nothing to do with the creation of.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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What is standard XP for finishing the ITF? The ITF I just did leveled me from 47-50 netted me well in excess of several million bonus XP. The I 19 announcement specifically stated a "Gift of XP" and double merits, not double XP finishing bonus. |
Originally Posted by Fixxer
And the WSF only gives the double end bonus once per toon (if that is your reference). That is the only difference between a WSF and any other TF. I know a lot of people who ran ITF after ITF to get from 35+ to 50 quicker. But those people also.. actively fight/kill/die etc....
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I had assumed that this Gift of XP was put there to rocket more toons to 50 faster. And I was saying, in my previous post, that I thought this wasn't a great idea.
I can get to from 41 to 50 in only 3 1 hour TFs - is that WAI?
With Incarnate activity available, characters that reach 50 are even less likely to go back and try the 40-50 content they may have rocketed by, because of this "XP Gift".
Sir Zane (Lvl 50, Inv/SS/Nrg Tank);Atomic Jake (Lvl 50, Kin/Rad/Elec Defender)
Nikolai (Lvl 50, DM/EA/GW Brute);Raging Stallion (Lvl 50 MA/SR/Weap Scrapper)
Archmage Tristam (Lvl 50 Ill/Son/Psi Controller)
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-g=C800:5
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Spread out over the course of over two weeks so, yes, it probably is intended.
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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane
I can get to from 41 to 50 in only 3 1 hour TFs - is that WAI?
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The Mentor Project
Honestly, I was focusing heavily on my existing 50s already. I have 10 of them, and I like lavishing on them.
I've said many times before - if I have a 50 at all, it's because I really like playing it. I refuse to PL stuff. I play it from 1-50 through mission content, and I mostly solo while doing so. (I start teaming again once I'm 45+.) That means I don't have anything that's 50 that I didn't really enjoy, because the way I level stuff means that if I didn't enjoy it, I would have stopped long before I got to 50.
As a result, I already spent a lot of time outfitting my existing 50s, and I played them to get them the resources to outfit themselves. All of my 50s are heavily IOd, equipped with things like purples and the occasional PvPIO. As of yesterday, all 10 have a Very Rare Alpha slotted. Achieving this already put a big crimp time allocated to leveling new alts. I19 and I20 aren't changing that, they're just extending it.
I do have an increasing desire to level some new alts, so I will get to it sometime soon. But I will now get to it less soon that I would have without the Incarnate system, because I have new progress to focus on for my existing stable of 50s.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Rest assured, it is just as exhausting to read it over and over from you...|
Originally Posted by Fixxer
ANYONE can participate in the end game... the problem is people want the rewards NOW. It's exhausting to repeat this over and over..
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Originally Posted by Fixxer
your PERCEPTION of how fast you get rewards is your perception. your DESIRE to have it quicker... is a self inflicted frustration. How about adopting the attitude that you will play the game and enjoy your toons.. and when IT (It being incarnate rewards) happens..it happens.
And one more time: NO ONE is making you do incarnate stuff to enjoy your toons. If you have enjoyed them for the past 6+ years what has changed.. oh yeah.. your desire to be UBER/LEET/etc... Keeping up with the Jones' is always a frustrating race in ANYTHING you do in life (even in a casual game). |
If it DOES make a LOT of a difference, like extra levels, let alone ones you cannot be sidekicked to, and what else I20 may bring, and suddenly everyone is twice as cool as you if you don't move along, then playing a lot of characters can become a lot less fun.
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I don't want it know, I just want to be able to get it. I can not find anyone willing to do the Ramiel arc for any toon I WISH to advance . Everyone has moved on. Shards drops are slow , in the time since they stared I've got 8 . Now with Issue 20 coming people will move on to threads and leave eveything else. My point to the Devs is this is not like surfing and riding one wave but satisfying everyones desire to play the content|
Originally Posted by Fixxer
ANYONE can participate in the end game... the problem is people want the rewards NOW. It's exhausting to repeat this over and over.. your PERCEPTION of how fast you get rewards is your perception. your DESIRE to have it quicker... is a self inflicted frustration. How about adopting the attitude that you will play the game and enjoy your toons.. and when IT (It being incarnate rewards) happens..it happens.
And one more time: NO ONE is making you do incarnate stuff to enjoy your toons. If you have enjoyed them for the past 6+ years what has changed.. oh yeah.. your desire to be UBER/LEET/etc... Keeping up with the Jones' is always a frustrating race in ANYTHING you do in life (even in a casual game). |
Oh, and one more time No one says we have to play the same way,and keeping up with the Joneses is a fools game but If the new content is not acccessible to the casual or solo gamer is it just for the hardcore grinders.
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Trouble is, the character progression is locked behind activities that some people do not enjoy. I want to progress my characters farther than just level 50. However, I don't enjoy the activities that allow that progression. You're saying that I should just be happy not progressing? Or that I should grit my teeth and grind away at something that I do not enjoy in order to progress?|
Originally Posted by Fixxer
ANYONE can participate in the end game... the problem is people want the rewards NOW. It's exhausting to repeat this over and over.. your PERCEPTION of how fast you get rewards is your perception. your DESIRE to have it quicker... is a self inflicted frustration. How about adopting the attitude that you will play the game and enjoy your toons.. and when IT (It being incarnate rewards) happens..it happens.
And one more time: NO ONE is making you do incarnate stuff to enjoy your toons. If you have enjoyed them for the past 6+ years what has changed.. oh yeah.. your desire to be UBER/LEET/etc... Keeping up with the Jones' is always a frustrating race in ANYTHING you do in life (even in a casual game). |
I am not trying to keep up with anyone. I only have 3 level 50s. Haven't had any new ones in the last year. If I were trying to keep up with the Jones' I would have at least 15 50s half of which would be purpled out with billions in Inf spilling out of their pockets.
All I would like, is to be able to progress at a reasonable pace. Something less than 5 years to gain an incarnate slot.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, it was originally designed to mimic most of the conventional rules of MMOs of the day. Cryptic got incredibly lucky in that they missed almost all of their goals and ended up with a game that was casual friendly by sheer coincidence and that turned out not to be the disaster most MMO designers thought it would be at the time.
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Of course, they're only human like the rest of us. *
Unfortunately, the character progression after level 50, or the Incarnate stuff, is not casual friendly. Which tells me that the end game is not designed for the casual gamer, but for the hardcore gamer.
* I have a great deal of respect for the Developers.
I just disagree with the new path they seem to be taking the game now.
Yes, this is a new path.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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What server are you on? I'll help you unlock the Alpha slot this evening.
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex
I can not find anyone willing to do the Ramiel arc for any toon I WISH to advance.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Its the alternate reward for players under level 50 who will not get a Notice of the Well for running the WST the first time. Its not specifically intended to "rocket more toons to 50" although that is a side effect for people who use it in that manner. Personally, I've run 30ish and low 40ish characters in WSTs not to specifically rocket them to 50, but just to give them a couple level boost before returning to normal leveling.
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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane
I had assumed that this Gift of XP was put there to rocket more toons to 50 faster.
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I ran the WST ITF on quite a few of my level 35-38 characters. Most got two and a bit levels from it. More a bump than rocketing upwards.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Which is... your choice 
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Honestly, I was focusing heavily on my existing 50s already. I have 10 of them, and I like lavishing on them.
I've said many times before - if I have a 50 at all, it's because I really like playing it. I refuse to PL stuff. I play it from 1-50 through mission content, and I mostly solo while doing so. (I start teaming again once I'm 45+.) That means I don't have anything that's 50 that I didn't really enjoy, because the way I level stuff means that if I didn't enjoy it, I would have stopped long before I got to 50. As a result, I already spent a lot of time outfitting my existing 50s, and I played them to get them the resources to outfit themselves. All of my 50s are heavily IOd, equipped with things like purples and the occasional PvPIO. As of yesterday, all 10 have a Very Rare Alpha slotted. Achieving this already put a big crimp time allocated to leveling new alts. I19 and I20 aren't changing that, they're just extending it. I do have an increasing desire to level some new alts, so I will get to it sometime soon. But I will now get to it less soon that I would have without the Incarnate system, because I have new progress to focus on for my existing stable of 50s. |
If CONTENT is your issue there is a nice little thing in the game that will allow you to experience all the content you want by...disabling your xp.
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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane
What is standard XP for finishing the ITF? The ITF I just did leveled me from 47-50 netted me well in excess of several million bonus XP. The I 19 announcement specifically stated a "Gift of XP" and double merits, not double XP finishing bonus.
I had assumed that this Gift of XP was put there to rocket more toons to 50 faster. And I was saying, in my previous post, that I thought this wasn't a great idea. I can get to from 41 to 50 in only 3 1 hour TFs - is that WAI? With Incarnate activity available, characters that reach 50 are even less likely to go back and try the 40-50 content they may have rocketed by, because of this "XP Gift". |
So your issue is you don't feel cool? Ahh I see.
That in no way is your... perception (sarcasm)
If you want all the bells and whistles you are going to have to make a choice of what you do in game just like everyone else does
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Rest assured, it is just as exhausting to read it over and over from you...
But it depends on how much cooler the Jones' (???) are. As long as they are just a few % better than your basic-IO'd level 50 like it was before (please don't start "But SO's...". All basic level 50 IOs sell for very few hundred K if you can wait, and you make way more than enough money on the way to 50 to afford filling all your slots with them. And whenever I try to sell an SO I found they sell for spit and have 0 bidding. So please. You reach level 50 in no time these days and I don't know anybody who uses SOs then anymore. (And if someone complains the prices at the market are WAY too high but they never sell anything for those high prices and now can't afford IOs I can't help them.)) it doesn't hurt much to just go without that and split your time among several characters. If it DOES make a LOT of a difference, like extra levels, let alone ones you cannot be sidekicked to, and what else I20 may bring, and suddenly everyone is twice as cool as you if you don't move along, then playing a lot of characters can become a lot less fun. |
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Alpha's requirements for participation are so low for an MMO, they barely qualify as being requirements. The requirements for the other announced slots don't even require to succeed in the content that gates them.|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
Unfortunately, the character progression after level 50, or the Incarnate stuff, is not casual friendly. Which tells me that the end game is not designed for the casual gamer, but for the hardcore gamer.
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The only way the end game could be more accessible to casual players would be if incarnate slots were unlocked as a day job.
The highest levels of the system have higher requirements if you have extreme restrictions on gameplay: you don't team, you can't participate in any task forces, you can only play for a minimal amount of time, and your characters cannot solo at higher difficulty settings. Under those circumstances, its *still* possible to get a very rare Alpha, it will just take an extremely long time to do so but you could still make progress towards that goal in increments.
I think it is at least a legitimate question to ask if the time requirements for soloing into the Incarnate system are properly balanced (and I'm not saying they are or are not). But to say the system is not casual friendly is a different matter. It is as accessible as accessible gets without giving it away for free. If the end game is not casual friendly, casual friendly doesn't exist.
Note: this doesn't mean its necessarily appealing to all casual players. It is just accessible to them. Whether it is appealing to all casual players is a matter of taste, not of "friendliness."
You are correct in that the end game is not designed for casual players directly. Neither is the rest of the game. The game, including the end game, is designed for players period, and efforts are made to make it accessible to casual players. This is not a major change in design philosophy. Its a "new path" only in the sense that all game additions are new paths. Adding Kheldians was a new path. Adding inventions was a new path. The end game is a new path in an analogous way. Its as dramatic a change to the game as inventions were, but conversely it wasn't a radical departure from the game's focus and goals. The end game is different than inventions, but kheldians were different from inventions also. That difference is not relevant to the point.
Its important to note the time horizons involved here. They've been working on end game implementation since 2009. They must have had it conceptualized and approved since 2008. They were probably thinking about it when the NC buyout occurred in 2007. Its entirely possible that the core fundamental ideas were being brainstormed before the buyout, as it was reported when the buyout occurred Cryptic ne Paragon Studios already had a list of things they wanted to do if the resources became available. So the notion of an end game probably similar to what we have in broad terms if not in specifics came from the minds of circa 2006-2007 developers. If the devs "changed their minds" about the direction the game was going to go by adding an end game past level 50 that was going to be gated, they changed their minds so long ago virtually the entire game as we know it today comes from that mentality.
If we are on a new path, its really a path we've been on since I9 and the introduction of the invention system. That system introduced both complex gear and a player economy, two changes with far greater impact on casual players than the end game has had to date.
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And I would like to have capes and auras on all my toons at lcl 1 but I have to wait to do BOTH missions at lvl 20 if I want them. So I grit my teeth and do it if I want it on that toon.
I would like to Katie Hannon TF on all of my toons oh.. wait.. I didn't run her arc in the appropriate level on all my toons. So sometimes I hang out in Croatoa and hope that someone will start one so I can get the badge and the hat.
7 of my 50's are tier 3 through running NORMAL every day content. No farming. No WSF. Just missions. And before you even try to say "You are a hardcore gamer." If 10-15 hours a week in game is hardcore gaming... then wow...because that is all I play.
Do I wish the next three slots were easier.. sure. Am I going to complain and complain and whine because I don't wanna do something to progress my toon. Nope. IF I run the new trials so be it. IF I get the next 3 Incarnate slots..so be it. I will continue to play my toons I like, level up toons I am interested in and IF it happens.. well yay for me. I liked my toons before all this Incarnate stuff and will like them until.. well I stop liking them or the game ends LOL! I could care less if someone sits behind their computer 12 hours a day grinding out to get their ultra rares on every incarnate slot.
I am comfortable in saying that the devs are smart enough to notice if not enough people are playing the new content...if not enough people are slotting their incarnates.. and a lot of people are constructively giving feedback AFTER this all goes live that if need be changes in drop rates etc will be made if needed.
I just think all this DOOM is ridiculously funny and after 6 years I guess should be expected whenever something changes in this game.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
Trouble is, the character progression is locked behind activities that some people do not enjoy. I want to progress my characters farther than just level 50. However, I don't enjoy the activities that allow that progression. You're saying that I should just be happy not progressing? Or that I should grit my teeth and grind away at something that I do not enjoy in order to progress?
I am not trying to keep up with anyone. I only have 3 level 50s. Haven't had any new ones in the last year. If I were trying to keep up with the Jones' I would have at least 15 50s half of which would be purpled out with billions in Inf spilling out of their pockets. All I would like, is to be able to progress at a reasonable pace. Something less than 5 years to gain an incarnate slot. I thought that the Developers would learn from the past. My mistake. Of course, they're only human like the rest of us. * Unfortunately, the character progression after level 50, or the Incarnate stuff, is not casual friendly. Which tells me that the end game is not designed for the casual gamer, but for the hardcore gamer. * I have a great deal of respect for the Developers. I just disagree with the new path they seem to be taking the game now. Yes, this is a new path. |
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Honestly, while I've voiced some objections in the past on some of the later stuff.. I'm of the firm opinion that anyone who claims to be UNABLE to get basic alpha slotting (slot unlocked, a single common in it) is either NOT TRYING (this includes stubborn refusal to accept the idea they're doing something wrong, for some folks)..|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Alpha's requirements for participation are so low for an MMO, they barely qualify as being requirements. The requirements for the other announced slots don't even require to succeed in the content that gates them.
The only way the end game could be more accessible to casual players would be if incarnate slots were unlocked as a day job. |
... or is so far into 'special needs' territory that the developers CANNOT cater to them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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It is just as casual friendly as anything else in the game. It has tiers that range from "casual" to "hardcore". |
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
Unfortunately, the character progression after level 50, or the Incarnate stuff, is not casual friendly. Which tells me that the end game is not designed for the casual gamer, but for the hardcore gamer.
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Lets look at another thing that works much the same way: Enhancements
SOs are completely casual.
Generic IOs and some frankenslotting are less casual.
Set IO builds are not really casual.
Fully optimized purpled out builds are hardcore.
Incarnate slotting works the same way, the further you delve into it, the less casual it becomes. As follows:
Common Alpha slot is casual.
Uncommon Alpha slot is less casual.
Rare Alpha slot is not really casual.
Very Rare Alpha slot is hardcore.
Getting all the Incarnate slots to common or uncommon levels is a fairly casual activity, and the effort expended to get there reflects it. When you start getting into the Rare and Very Rare levels, you are leaving the realm of casual play behind and the effort expended reflects that as well.
Saying that the Incarnate system needs to be more casual friendly isn't really any different than saying we should be able to get a fully optimized purpled out build just as easily as buying SOs. It just doesn't work like that, if you want more out of the system you have to put more into it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Beautifully said. One of the best posts I've seen regarding this topic, and I agree completely.
| If you don't team, it can be less accessible. If you spend very little time playing, it can also be less accessible. But anyone who thinks this game was specifically targeted at soloing players with heavy time constraints is not being realistic. I have sympathy for players in that situation, but I do not extend that sympathy to accepting the notion that this game's current design is predicated on the assumption that time constrained soloers are required to have access to all in-game rewards and progressional paths at rapid earning rates. This game tries to be solo-friendly. It tries to be casual friendly. It does not and in my opinion should not be bounded by the reward earning rates of the slowest possible players that can possibly exist by virtue of eliminating all but the slowest possible earning paths and then playing them for the minimum amount of credible playtime. |
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Tracking Down Jack Ketch - ArcID #2701
Cat War! - ArcID #2788
I am a casual, time constrained player. I work evenings, during the prime U.S. playing hours, so my chances to get a full team are smaller. I usually end up running solo about 80-90% of the time. In addition, I have a wife and daughter, whom I spend time with, also limiting my time to play. (Not a bad thing! )
I have 2 50s with rare Alphas slotted, while working towards Very Rares. I have 6 50s with Alphas unlocked with a Common slotted.
Do I expect to get the next 4 slots filled as fast as others? No, but I consider it something to work towards. I've looked at the method for getting into the trials for I20, and it looks like it will be easier to get teams together to run them.
My point? I'm a mostly-solo, time limited player, but I find nothing to object to the way the endgame is shaping up. If I wanted certain accolades (TF Commander, Marshal), I would need a team to get those. Why should Incarnate be any different?
I find your lack of signature disturbing.
"Let them eat cake" was beautifully said too, if not actually by a certain Austrian.
What made this game special was that, with careful character design, the game mechanics flattened out differences between characters played by casual and obsessive players. For the most part, everyone could team together and all be useful. Whether the devs intended this outcome or not, many fans of the game have stayed with it precisely because it exemplified the inclusive atmosphere of the supers genre.
IOs were widely viewed as a marketing move to draw in players from the other MMOs who felt lost without a gear grind. I submit that introducing them was a mistake. A gear-centric "End Game" that further separates the haves and have-nots may not kill the game, but it will subvert what was special and unique about it.
A pity, if not exactly Doom. Good luck with the caste system that arises...
ANYONE can participate in the end game... the problem is people want the rewards NOW. It's exhausting to repeat this over and over.. your PERCEPTION of how fast you get rewards is your perception. your DESIRE to have it quicker... is a self inflicted frustration. How about adopting the attitude that you will play the game and enjoy your toons.. and when IT (It being incarnate rewards) happens..it happens.
And one more time: NO ONE is making you do incarnate stuff to enjoy your toons. If you have enjoyed them for the past 6+ years what has changed.. oh yeah.. your desire to be UBER/LEET/etc... Keeping up with the Jones' is always a frustrating race in ANYTHING you do in life (even in a casual game).
I do not see the "end game" being anything near casual friendly.
Twisted Toon
This, What is the use of having a end game that few can participate in?