Insanity of moving blue spots while you have powers that root you.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-03-02 07:38 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Dragonkat:|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Actually it only provides a defiance boost for about 10secodns after summoning. I've seen this misconception a few times for both Gun Drone and Trip Mine. The problem is that the summary if you right click on the buff icon shows the bonus during the entire duration but if you check the detailed power display or monitor your damage bonus the defiance boost only lasts a few seconds after casting.
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| I've done the just enough math by eyeballing damage without checking tables to see it's effect, and trust me it makes a difference. |
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| Again see gun drone, which is a huge defiance boost in and of itself if it's alive. (22% or around I think |
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| It does last slightly longer than defiance bonuses are supposed to but AFAIK that's due to the defiance durations being mis-calculated for all interruptible powers. |
To be honest neither of those seems like the right logic to me. Defiance was supposed to be balanced around true cast time, because it was supposed to be normalized around activity: what percentage of the time were you actively using "attacks" (powers other than self buffs really for blasters). Not counting the interruptible part of sniper shots seems wrong because you pay the cast time either way, and not counting the non-interruptible part of Gun Drone (and for that matter Time Bomb and Trip Mine) seem odd.
It may be specifically because the devs felt devices was underperforming and gave those powers special rules, or it could be an error. Either way, I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth on those three.
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There's a related problem that comes up in the controller forums. Treat it as a parable, if you will.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In the game, I don't have a problem making myself useful in Apex with a blaster.
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Many Ice/Storm (or equivalent) controllers will bemoan how Frostbite will negate their Ice Slick, but then they need it to control Tornado KBs. There'll also be less frequent complaints about AA & Hurricane being somewhat mutually exclusive (not really, but that's how the complaints go). I (and most experienced controllers) invariably reply, well, then don't use all the powers together. Learn to figure out what powers go best in what combinations and under what circumstances. Don't expect to use all of your powers, all of the time.
Apex takes it to another level. There are whole power classifications (immobs, anyone? Though I argue for them sometimes--see the scrapper forum) that are taboo on the last fight, and other entire ATs (any melee, it seems) that feel frozen out. Again, my reply is, adapt. If you're a controller and your team doesn't want immobs and holds, don't use them. Use your secondaries, or concentrate on locking down other mobs. If you're a tank w/o Taunt, smack BM w/bruising every 10 sec or so, then keep the swords out of the squishies' hair. And if you're a blaster... well, damn, just shoot the bi...attle maiden.
Or, you know, you can just whine about it as your corpse lays cooling while the rest of the team finishes the TF for you, refusing to hosp because, "I can't do anything useful!" Not saying this about any of the posters, but I'm sure you've seen this behavior in that fight, and it drives me crazy.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I feel plenty useful regardless of having devices, after all I can still use my ST chain between puddle dodging regardless of the other issues. I did "learn" how to dodge them after all. But it doesn't change my opinion on the TF simply not being fun, not as doable on a pug or a team of any AT as it should be, and feeling that its the wrong direction for coh as a game to head.
As for point #2 I was talking about defiance attack chains at that point on common mobs, and how eyeballing just enough damage by using the right attacks in the right order = dead mob over mob with a hp sliver left. Not gun drone.
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I disagree with this slightly Adeon as I've watched the damage ticks when I have dual gun drones out (yay recharge) one will defiance buff the other, and gun drone also carries some damage buffs you have when you cast it till it wears off you (seen this with red insps, though i'll admit i haven't tried it with someone forting me)| Actually it only provides a defiance boost for about 10secodns after summoning. I've seen this misconception a few times for both Gun Drone and Trip Mine. The problem is that the summary if you right click on the buff icon shows the bonus during the entire duration but if you check the detailed power display or monitor your damage bonus the defiance boost only lasts a few seconds after casting. It does last slightly longer than defiance bonuses are supposed to but AFAIK that's due to the defiance durations being mis-calculated for all interruptable powers. |
The defiance as far as I know doesn't wear off till the gun drone icon starts blinking and it's getting ready to splode, least that's what my in game playing has showed. I'll check the combat tabs later tonight (leaving for work now) But if you are right about that one I'll be happy to concede the point.
And I don't joust, always seemed rather silly to try and game the engine that way, and it'd slow down my attack chain.
But I'll try one more time, if I said you have to fight a giant bag of HP and use a temp power to stop his super ability, and he carries a massive aoe that nukes everything around it. That and only that, could you tell the difference between kahn and lambda? just curious.
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That's two question, not one. I answered the first one, by saying that if the tank can't taunt aggro off of you, something must be horribly wrong because taunt's range is 70 feet. Of course, that presumes we're talking about tanks that have taunt.
| How do I adapt on a poor PuG to pulling BM's aggro with what damage I am doing (the one way I did die on TF #2) Because the tank can't get anywhere near her? And what about the tank being basically relegated to the role of tauntbot because she won't come out of a patch? |
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Okay, but why is it not fun for you? I mean, subjective notions of fun aside, from your postings, you seem to be primarily objecting to the fact that you can't use your entire bag of tricks. But that applies to most of the game, except we're mostly oblivious to the fact, and we get away with our mistakes, because most of the challenges in this game are simple and rudimentary. I mean, who cares if you finish a kill most ITF run in 45 min instead of 40, because the controller kept spamming his AoE immob too early, right? Apex just makes these "mistakes" stark.|
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
I feel plenty useful regardless of having devices, after all I can still use my ST chain between puddle dodging regardless of the other issues. I did "learn" how to dodge them after all. But it doesn't change my opinion on the TF simply not being fun, not as doable on a pug or a team of any AT as it should be, and feeling that its the wrong direction for coh as a game to head.
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There are many, many powers we use incorrectly depending on the situation, team makeup, etc, but we do anyway, because we're all too focused on our own individual contributions. Insofar as CoX is a very easy game, I think the truly skilled players are the ones who are the most situationally aware and choose the right action for each situation, not the ones who can solo a pylon in 3 min (that's a different skillset, though).
Apex is currently the biggest extreme of a situation where not everyone can contribute equally or optimally, and it depends on run to run, but if everyone does what they can do, there's zero reason the fight shouldn't go smoothly. If that's not fun for you, well, we differ in opinion, and certainly on whether the game is going in the right direction as a result of it.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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I definitely prefer the BM fight to the warwalker fight. Not that the warwalkers are awful, it's just that BM is a little different, with all the zipping around to avoid the patches and the swords. It makes a nice change of pace.|
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
If tank and spank is bad why do people love the warwalker battles then?
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I think it's cool that the GMs are providing some more variety in the TFs. No doubt there will be some of the new TFs that I won't enjoy as much as others, but as I can pick and choose the content I run, I can play the ones I enjoy more the most, while people who like different things will hopefully get to enjoy those things in other TFs.
How do you feel about Tin Mage II? Is that also taking TFs in the wrong direction? I don't think it's fair to talk about the direction the game is taking without considering the entirety of the new content -- there's a difference between changing the whole tone of the game, and offering players a greater variety in TFs.
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Yeah, I was mis-remembering slightly here. Snipe powers have their defiance bonus based entirely on the non-interruptable portion of the activation time while the Devices powers are based entirely on the interruptable portion.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I dunno. For things like sniper blasts I think defiance is calculated based on the non-interruptible part of the power. So for example sniper blast in the Energy Blast set has the defiance numbers you'd expect from a power with 1.33 cast time: its cast time is actually 4.33 with 3 second interrupt. Gun Drone, on the other hand, has the defiance you'd expect from a six second cast time power, and its 7 second cast 6 seconds interrupt.
To be honest neither of those seems like the right logic to me. Defiance was supposed to be balanced around true cast time, because it was supposed to be normalized around activity: what percentage of the time were you actively using "attacks" (powers other than self buffs really for blasters). Not counting the interruptible part of sniper shots seems wrong because you pay the cast time either way, and not counting the non-interruptible part of Gun Drone (and for that matter Time Bomb and Trip Mine) seem odd. |
This leads to different problems with both types. For snipes the damage bonus is lower than it really should be (going by the idea that defiance is supposed to use cast time) while for the Devices powers the damage bonus is slightly low but the duration is effectively buffed since the timer does not start until the interruptable portion finishes.
Now, personally I think interruptable powers should use a combination effect. The damage bonus should be based on the total cast time but the duration should be based on the non-interruptable portion (in order to preserve the "damage bonus for 7.5s after casting ends" rule). The remaining issue would then be that Time Bomb And Trip Mine are treated as single target powers for damage bonus despite being AoEs. In their current incarnation I don't have a problem with that since Trip Mine in particular is frequently more useful as a pseudo-buildup than as a mine but if the devs ever decrease their casting time (as I think they should) then the bonus would need to be adjusted to be more in-line with thier actual effect.
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I believe you are correct that gun drones inherit any damage buffs on you for the remaining duration (I haven't tested it specifically but I know other pets that do so it seems reasonable). I don't think they are supposed to defiance buff each other but at the same time I'm not willing to rule it out until I've had a chance to test it. I know there is a bug with FFG for Masterminds where you can resummon it to upgrade your pets so it could be that something similar is causing a new gun drone summon to make an existing gun drone re-inherit your damage buffs.|
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
I disagree with this slightly Adeon as I've watched the damage ticks when I have dual gun drones out (yay recharge) one will defiance buff the other, and gun drone also carries some damage buffs you have when you cast it till it wears off you (seen this with red insps, though i'll admit i haven't tried it with someone forting me)
The defiance as far as I know doesn't wear off till the gun drone icon starts blinking and it's getting ready to splode, least that's what my in game playing has showed. I'll check the combat tabs later tonight (leaving for work now) But if you are right about that one I'll be happy to concede the point. |
For the rest all I can say is please do check the combat attributes, I verified it myself a while back so unless there's been a new bug the buff only applies for a short duration.
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It is fair to say you don't like the direction the game is going. I have been there a few times myself. |
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
it's not just my bag of tricks that's impacted by Apex and I20 it's everyones, and I'm not sure i like the way coh is going with how new content is designed.
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It is not fair to assume you speak for everyone. It is quite possible to do the content on pugs. I have not been on a pug that failed it. That doesn't mean that I believe that every single apex run has completed it. I am not blind to that. You can't assume that every single pug has failed it.
If its not your cup of tea, thats okay. That doesn't mean it is broken.
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That's actually what I thought the rule was going to be when they tweaked interruptible powers, then it wasn't. But since it primarily affected /Devices, and /Dev has some problematic issues with defiance, I didn't think it was all that important to redress at the time.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Now, personally I think interruptable powers should use a combination effect. The damage bonus should be based on the total cast time but the duration should be based on the non-interruptable portion (in order to preserve the "damage bonus for 7.5s after casting ends" rule).
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| The remaining issue would then be that Time Bomb And Trip Mine are treated as single target powers for damage bonus despite being AoEs. In their current incarnation I don't have a problem with that since Trip Mine in particular is frequently more useful as a pseudo-buildup than as a mine but if the devs ever decrease their casting time (as I think they should) then the bonus would need to be adjusted to be more in-line with thier actual effect. |
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Honestly...when I was on an Apex team last week on my DP/Elec blaster...i really didn't use my secondary much either. That may perhaps be do to the fact that /electric is rather melee range heavy. 3 melee attacks, pbaoe's in lightning field, thunder clap, and power sink (and technically thunderstrike), and a melee ranged hold.
Unless you're a softcapped blaster (or not...dunno honestly...cuz i'm not) or just plain crazy (guess i really hadn't hit that point yet)...you're really not gonna wanna risk getting into melee range of BM. Most of the pbaoe's you have are either A: totally worthless vs. BM, and/or B: better used on incoming mobs during the fight.
I bounced and bang-banged the entire fight and suffered puddle death one time cuz i wasn't paying attention and walked into it (DUH!)
Really...it boils down to the right tools for the right job. As a general contractor, I have a truck toolboxes and a tool trailer full of tools. I don't use every tool every time for every job. i won't use a hammer to try and put in a screw...i get a screwdriver or a drill. Have nail...THEN grab a hammer.
Sorry it sucks for you, Dragonkat...but hey...such is the way of things sometimes. Personally...i liked the TF and would run it again. With my blaster...that pretty much ignored his secondary the entire time...and had a blast (no pun intended) the entire fight.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Something funny. |
I just wanted to add that after doing this TF for a week with all my toons, it has probably become my second favorite next to the ITF. I had fun every single time with every single toon I tried it with. Didn't ever fail, and never felt useless at any point. I don't understand how anybody can dislike it, to be honest.
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Gimmick?|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Playing the Apex TF over the last day has aquainted me to the insanity of developers dropping spots that move randomly on you while expecting you to use powers that root you.
Then you have the melee players saying well you need to pay attention - all while being stunned by some of the Champions and unable to actually move. Is this the best we can expect? A gimmick to drop instant death is the best thing we can expect for making a challenge? How about adding enemies without status effects but yet with armor on all of them? I did this on an AE mission and everyone loved it. I had a few enemies that had specific hard hitting attacks that would hurt squishies - so the melee learned to handle those - I had some resistant to slows - some resistant to fire. |
I've known so many people who want to actually have to dodge things than rely on the Random Number Generator.
This gives them exactly what they want, and now there are people complaining.
Of course, that should be expected.
Simple answer, if you don't like it, don't run it. Personally, I love the Apex TF.
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Originally Posted by Dragonkat
Recent content just does not seemed to be designed with every AT in mind, it's veering all over towards one end or the other in terms of who it favors, to me this says sloppy design.
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I disagree. IMO the problem is that legacy content was not designed with every AT in mind. It was too predictable. And still is, somewhat, but only because we are still using the same template for AVs that was designed so many years ago.
Here is the historical problem in a nutshell: past AVs have been so uniform in their strengths and vulnerabilities that some powerset combos were able to rise above others, not because they were literally more powerful, but because they responded well to the very limited variety of situations the game had to offer. The fact that there is a "formula" for an "AV killer" should have raised alarms. It's ok for some sets to be generally better at it than others, but if this gets too extreme, and AVs are the only significant barrier to success in Task Forces, it puts a great amount of pressure on powersets to perform or be thrown into the "suck" pile. To rephrase this another way: what other video game do you know where every end boss is as predictable as they are in City of Heroes?*
The shorter version is: There is balance in variety. If there there is no variety, some sets rise to the top as "the best." Changing things around keeps powersets useful for two different but related reasons. 1) It allows some powers to be more useful or less useful in a given real encounter. 2) It stirs up doubt about any particular future encounter yet to be released, and doubt is almost as good as reality in creating need. Didn't need -Recharge this time? Well, maybe next time. But this doesn't happen if every boss is basically just immune to it, and yet never immune to some other debuffs.
Point 2 is the part that min/maxers don't like. They want to be on top all the time. They are missing the point. The point of having thousands of power combinations is none of them are the "best." If any of them do become that way, THAT is what needs to be fixed, not the restoration of the previously favored set to its higher than normal value status.
[*Side Note: Part of this stems from a necessary predictability of Defense values. This game does something that almost no other does: it varies the nature of armor across characters instead of relying almost entirely on either Resistance (as almost all competing MMOs do) or Defense (as table top games like D&D do). In addition it features the longstanding, and at this point more or less unfixable, design flaw that makes 45% defense twice as good as 40%. So the Defense stat as a whole is pretty well locked in.]
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Point 2 is the part that min/maxers don't like. They want to be on top all the time. They are missing the point. The point of having thousands of power combinations is none of them are the "best."
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A concern for a player like myself, min/max powergamer, is when a build/character I have has a large part of it either completely marginalized or made useless for an entire encounter.
And I find melee characters are almost completely marginalized on the Apex TF.
Yeah there are a couple of parts where they can be slightly useful, or instead you could just fill the team with the smarter choice of force multipliers who already dominate this game.
Make no mistake, melee ATs are largely marginalized on the BM fight.
Yes, I (me personally) can hop around, yes I can take pot shots, yes I have two ranged attacks & taunt on my Brute, do I die during this encounter? Almost never.
Does it matter? No.
Here's why:
Hopping around like a headless chicken, doing insignificant damage through taking random pot shots at BM or using the one or two ranged attacks you might possibly have is an ineffective waste of a team slot.I, or any other player whether they will admit it or not, could be wildly more effective playing nearly any ranged AT instead.
So it's one thing for people to want "one" combination to be on top, and quite another for people to be annoyed when an entire TYPE of AT (and not just 1 AT) is rendered pointless for an entire bossfight.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
And I find ________________ are almost completely marginalized on the Apex TF.
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Changed your statement slightly so everyone else can use it as a template. Don't mean to be rude, but can't help but notice that someone has now claimed every single type of character is marginalized by this encounter, from Controllers and Dominators ("I can't mezz the swords?") to Blasters ("I'm being chased by enemies with mezzes?") to melees, to, probably Gravity/Empathy/Ice Controllers with two travel powers, no Hasten, and their aura colored blue. It is quite the interesting encounter that manages to make everyone "marginalized."
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I remember the massive initial outcry from MMs that Apex was completely anti-MM and even went further to state that if this was the type of design, then MM's would be marginalized for a majority of Incarnate content.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Changed your statement slightly so everyone else can use it as a template. Don't mean to be rude, but can't help but notice that someone has now claimed every single type of character is marginalized by this encounter, from Controllers and Dominators ("I can't mezz the swords?") to Blasters ("I'm being chased by enemies with mezzes?") to melees, to, probably Gravity/Empathy/Ice Controllers with two travel powers, no Hasten, and their aura colored blue. It is quite the interesting encounter that manages to make everyone "marginalized."
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I'm sure some of them are still saying that, regardless of how others have adapted.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Just because some people are bad players doesn't suddenly invalidate what I said.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Changed your statement slightly so everyone else can use it as a template. Don't mean to be rude, but can't help but notice that someone has now claimed every single type of character is marginalized by this encounter,
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Controllers and Dominators ("I can't mezz the swords?")
Controllers bring buffs/debuffs (hint: these are important), and BMs Warriors are mezzable.Blasters ("I'm being chased by enemies with mezzes?")
Dominators, can also control the warriors & they bring significant ranged damage for BM herself (important, in case you were wondering).
If you're a blaster and suddenly finding this an issue, and are not spending your energies on bringing a world of hurt from a distance - then you need to find a new AT. Your ranged damage is highly valuable in this encounter.Gravity/Empathy/Ice Controllers
Can't speak for Gravity or Ice, I don't have experience playing either of those. But Empathy is easily one of the best buffing sets in this encounter. When your entire team can no longer rely on their defenses and resistances, the only thing left they can hope for is healing, regen and HP. (Yes you can carry greens, but empathy grants a level of forgiveness for those few "oops I stepped in blue" mistakes.)I'll let you tell me why after having at most 1 taunt-bot capable of not sucking, any melee AT makes a better choice over any ranged damage dealer/buffer/debuffer in this encounter.
And just so I can preemptively address any moron with "lrn2play" at the ready:
3 Runs back to back on 3 different ATs (Brute, Corr, Fort), 1 Death total on all 3 runs, 3 Mo Badges Earned - Total of 90 minutes for all 3 runs.
I'm not saying this encounter is hard, I'm saying that it's stupid.
Brutes, Tankers, Scrappers ("Hopping around like a headless chicken, doing insignificant damage through taking random pot shots at BM or using the one or two ranged attacks you might possibly have is an ineffective waste of a team slot.")
Brutes, Tankers, and Scrappers bring aggro control (hint: this is important), and BMs Warriors and swords can be punched, smashed, sliced, and taunted so they are not chasing the buffers/ranged damage dealers. It can also be useful in the sewers as well as fighting vs. clocks and warwalkers.This is especially useful on a Brute, because having aggro keeps the damage up (maintaining Fury just fighting BM is pretty damn impossible). Most squishies I play with are not Sm/Le capped who can just blithely ignore the swords and warriors. Fortunately for me, most armored ATs I play with are quite skilled at keeping most of the swords and warriors focused on them. Use the secondary function of your AT (primary function if a tanker) and gather up some damn aggro. The difference between an armored toon who focuses on the chaos (and makes it less chaotic) and one who simply blinds themselves to all but the AV is quite remarkable, IME, on the Apex TF. The vast majority of any deaths I have in the Apex are from swords and warriors in runs where the brutes, tankers and scrappers think the AV is the only thing on the map to be concerned with.
It is nice to have two of them, although I freely admit that after that, the Apex does indeed reward range damage (which is NOT the same thing as totally marginalizing melee focused damage).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'll let you tell me why after having at most 1 taunt-bot capable of not sucking, any melee AT makes a better choice over any ranged damage dealer/buffer/debuffer in this encounter.
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Because every "melee AT" has a ranged blast available to them in their epics. If they chose not to take it because it "wasn't useful" I guess they turned out to be wrong. My Scrapper with the Fire APP has no problems whatsoever. And that useless Rise of the Phoenix power even if gives her a significant advantage.
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Real easy.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'll let you tell me why after having at most 1 taunt-bot capable of not sucking, any melee AT makes a better choice over any ranged damage dealer/buffer/debuffer in this encounter.
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Melees have self-defense.
You're up against a powerful level 54 AV, two sets of infinitely spawning level 54 enemies (with debuffs), and a patch that kills you instantly. It's a hectic fight, with stuff going on constantly. There are enemies everywhere, damage everywhere. People have to keep moving, and aren't all going the same way. There's damage coming in from all sides. You aren't always near the buffer and healer. You aren't always in range to get Mind Link or RA. Maybe the rezzer died.
Melees can go punch some people when BM isn't accessible and thin out the herd. They can kill a few of the bosses stabbing the Blaster. Melees don't have to hug the buffer. They don't have to run away from sword ambushes. They don't get one-shotted by BM or her friends.
Melees don't need babysitting.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I only recently started playing again, but I really liked the way Apex was done. The puddles really weren't that hard to avoid, and I never really struggled being able to attack as melee (ok it's annoying if BM stands in the patches, but I found it to be fairly rare). Our stone tanker in the group also did not struggle one bit with patches, and they're the ones who would probably suffer the worst from something like this.
Personally, I much prefer implementations like this, mechanics that are very avoidable, but very punishing if not avoided, over some of the other devastating mechanics in the game. I'd much rather have to dodge blue puddles or die than get hit by auto hit debuffs that completely wreck any chance my character has of being useful until the debuff fades.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Brutes, Tankers, Scrappers ("Hopping around like a headless chicken, doing insignificant damage through taking random pot shots at BM or using the one or two ranged attacks you might possibly have is an ineffective waste of a team slot.")
Brutes, Tankers, and Scrappers bring aggro control (hint: this is important), and BMs Warriors and swords can be punched, smashed, sliced, and taunted so they are not chasing the buffers/ranged damage dealers. It can also be useful in the sewers as well as fighting vs. clocks and warwalkers. |
Because I've basically already covered this and the rest of your post, I'll just quote myself.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'll let you tell me why after having at most 1 taunt-bot capable of not sucking, any melee AT makes a better choice over any ranged damage dealer/buffer/debuffer in this encounter.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Fortunately for me, most armored ATs I play with are quite skilled at keeping most of the swords and warriors focused on them. Use the secondary function of your AT (primary function if a tanker) and gather up some damn aggro.
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Hell, my Fire/Rad Corr is softcapped to SM/L and kept aggro with fireballs, toggles & RoF. It's not hard.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Because every "melee AT" has a ranged blast available to them in their epics. If they chose not to take it because it "wasn't useful" I guess they turned out to be wrong.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Hopping around like a headless chicken, doing insignificant damage through taking random pot shots at BM or using the one or two ranged attacks you might possibly have is an ineffective waste of a team slot.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Real easy.
Melees have self-defense. You're up against a powerful level 54 AV, two sets of infinitely spawning level 54 enemies (with debuffs), and a patch that kills you instantly. It's a hectic fight, with stuff going on constantly. |
The patches aren't a problem, for me at least. I have combat jumping on every character I play.
I'm sure the fight does feel exactly like you describe it for a lot of players.
Does it feel like this to you?
It felt like that to me the first time, and then never again.
Now it's just a fight, with a lot of jumping involved. It's easily timed, and unless you simply have poor mobility, the swords/minions should never be an issue.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Melees can go punch some people when BM isn't accessible and thin out the herd. They can kill a few of the bosses stabbing the Blaster. Melees don't have to hug the buffer. They don't have to run away from sword ambushes. They don't get one-shotted by BM or her friends.
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It went, pretty much the same way it went when I was on my Brute - except my brute spent more time taunting, and doing relatively insignifcant damage to BM - a far cry from the normal unbuffed 240+ DPS he normally does.
A Gloom here, a Dark Oblit there, nothing compared to consistently applied damage of either of my ranged characters along with the suite of team buffs/utility they also bring to the team.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Melees don't need babysitting.
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Who said they did?
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It's good for you if that's the case, and every team you ever take doesn't have any issues with the ambushes and moves as a cohesive unit. You asked why someone would take a melee on the team. I stated my reasons. If you're of the mindset though that melees are useless in this fight then my reasoning for taking them on my teams won't do anything to sway you. If you don't feel like taking melees at all then you don't have to. It's an opinion though, that they aren't of any use, and I'm happy to take them on my Apex.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
It felt like that to me the first time, and then never again.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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In light of your rant, your sig is quite humorous. Is it supposed to be tongue in cheek?