Issue 20 info is up!

Can I have half and half please?

As usual I'm neither outraged or overbrimming with excitement over i20.

I know. Filthy Neutral.

I think there aren't many neutrals like us around here because everyone who's in here's all up and angry about someone else, but a guy like me doesn't really care enough to post anything either way most of the time, heh. Oh well, we can be neutral buddies.

All I know is that my gut says 'maybe'.

The four new incarnate levels we get are judgement, lore, interface and destiny.

The order they unlock are as follows [iirc]

Judgement > Lore
Interface > destiny

Now one trial provides the XP for the one tree and the other trial provides the XP for the other trial. Now when you start the trials and start gaining the incarnate XP it will automatically go towards the first level in the tree [so either judgement or interface depending on the trial your on].
Once that level has become unlocked [The xp bar is full] you can now craft and slot the powers that are in that section IF you so wish. Whether you chose to start crafting them or not however, the next time you get incarnate xp it will automatically go to the next line of the tree [so if you unlocked judgement level it will now go to the lore level] until you have unlocked it also.

Now that you have unlocked both of that side of the tree you can craft and create whichever power in the slot as you want. Want a lore power and not a judgement power? Thats fine you dont need to craft a judgement one and go onto the lore. All that it will take however is you will need to unlock the judgement level to get to the Lore level. Of course since the powers you want are in the judgement slot it will be the first one you can unlock on that side of the tree

Hope that helps.

I'm not overly thrilled with I20, but I'd hardly call it outrage. I was hoping for another round of powerset proliferation to be honest. Since I'm not really all that fond of the Incarnate System that's the sort of thing that would keep me happily churning away on various characters like I've always done.

I may try an Incarnate Trial or two, but if it's as laggy as I suspect it will be, it's not the sort of thing I'll be doing often. I'm also not a big fan of TF's so while I may try the new 20-40 TF's, again it won't be something I'll be doing often.

So for me it's more like Issue 20: Meh?

Welcome to side Filthy Neutral.

Here's your beige flag and low level apathy.

That's more or less where I am. Not really sure when (or if) these things will ever get worked on, but some of the things that would make me really happy include:

*Powerset proliferation
*Further power customization
*New costume pieces and sets, especially if they cover brand new concepts.
*New weapons (pretty please?)
*Backpacks and jetpacks.
*New powersets. Pistols, Demons, Kinetic Melee and Electrical Control were great. How about Dark Control?
*Updates on currently underperforming sets like Devices.

'Course, you can't have all of that stuff in a single Issue, I get that. But I still hope I21 has at least one of these.

*edit*
Oh, and when are we going to get our Apathy Corruptors, damn it!?!

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Wasn't there mention already of you being able to grab a notice of the well solo, in i20 already?

Kinda like how they mentioned shards dropping off every enemy (which wasn't mentioned in the overview).

But again, the point stands. Even if it is slow grueling process, one can do all the soloing they want, it'll just be long and drawn out.

Which, really, I have to ask, why does it matter?

So far, fromt he look of it, these incarnate abilities, while useful at level 50 regular content, isn't really needed, and much more useful at the incarnate content...so it's not like you'll be needing them for much.

I kind of already posted that, probably a couple of pages before, I don't remember. You're right - there really is no point to have a solo option to what is ostensibly a team content gate. I've managed to make peace with that, myself, since there's really no reason to look for "other ways" to earn passage into content you don't want to do to begin with.

I can also see why they'd add a quote-unquote "solo option" just so they could say they have one, and I can see why they'd make it unviable. We're supposed to be playing the Trials, if not to unlock the powers then to use the powers. And that's just fine, really.

Like I said - better to have content you don't want to do than to have content you want to do but can't.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Not really.

It's already been said the Well of the Furies is responsible for opening up the 5 Origins of Power as it is. Now they're just saying it's giving you more power directly.

I'd wave the flag for you, but I'm afraid I'm too apathetic about it.

Oh goodness yes, I totally forgot about one of my bigger wishes: pool power customization. Please Devs, I am begging you, let me set Hasten to a "no graphics" option.

I think we all want that, no matter what sort of player you are.

I to was hoping there'd be some power proliferation/new powers with i20, and the NDA having to be signed it really put some hope in for that.

I don't even care if it's only Power Proliferation for a few ATs, it's not like I'm the type of player who only plays one AT. I'm sure the players who only play one AT would be all feelings hurt and stuff, but the majority I don't think would care.

Yeah, we're aware of it. We didn't like the concept when the Origin of Power arc was introduced, but there was less complaining because it could be handwaved away as the ramblings of people who didn't really know what they were talking about. Now it's become an integral part of lore, and can no longer be handwaved away, since everything going forward is based on it.

It was a bad idea then, and the writers should have listened to all the people who pointed out why it was bad, instead of making it worse.

It's only an AV in the instanced mission, which means it scales down to an EB when solo. It's not an easy EB but it's doable.

Because I think the devs are starting to take the view that many players take: the story is just an excuse to punch things in the face, and isn't as important as the mechanics because people are just going to click past it anyway. It feels like it's being slapped on as an afterthought, as a bone to people who actually care why they're punching stuff in the face. At the same time, I think they're grossly underestimating the standards of the people who do read this stuff. Every time someone posts something like "oh, stupid stuff happens in comics all the time, so it's ok" I cringe, because I fear the devs are listening to them.

It's easier that way. It's much much easier to write for a protagonist you know than one you don't, so they make assumptions and force player characters to become the characters they want to write for.

Honest question and not trying to start an argument, but how do you see them doing this? The Well, Praetoria and the Incarnate powers are being presented as inextricably linked. You can't get the powers without connecting to the well through the Praetorians.

And a more important question is, what makes you think they will? They have yet to remove any of the other silly unnecessary story explanations for gameplay elements, in fact they expand upon them even after being told by the people who critically think about these things beyond stating "it's awesome," "it sucks" or "I don't care." Powerset proliferation didn't need a story explanation, and yet it got one, which was then expanded on. The origins didn't need any more of an in-game explanation than the character creation screen gives you, and yet they were expanded on. The medical teleportation system didn't need any more explanation than "we appropriated Rikti tech to bring heroes back from the brink of death," and yet it got its own arc. What's next? A new story arc explaining how we can change our costumes so fast?

Datamining will tell them that players are flocking to Praetorian pets in droves, either because they don't care about the backstory or RP element or consider the power upgrade worth it, or just because everybody else is doing it. They will be seen as fine. It's notoriously hard to get the devs to change anything once they've decided it's fine.

Ahh, that stinks if the pet is explicitly Praetorian. I was thinking this might be a good way to implement the long-sought after sidekicks, especially if there is progression built in there.

Which is why I said it's a very specific origin. Play on words. Damn my jokes are too out there it seems.

But Praetorians are so uber powerful, so it should make you feel powerful that they are your pets.

I can see why they don't allow for a fully customizable NPC pet, like your sidekick suggestion seems to imply. I don't see why the pet is Praetorian, except that the devs love them and want us to love them too. Frankly, tying a slot called Lore to Praetoria is just dismissive of all the actual Lore that came before, and dismissive of everything else we've done before.

Because they intend to create additional slots beyond the original 10.

The pet is an Essence of the Well, with a ghostly aura, just like the Shadows of the Well we saw in Ramiel's arc.

They're based on Praetorians because:

1. You're fighting Praetorians as you gain this power.

2. The Well is 'siding' with Cole and Praetoria. If you call upon the Well's power for a 'pet', it's current obsession with Cole will 'color' the form of the essence.


While one may envision other types of pets and prefer to have them (e.g., vorpal bunnies), the in-game rationale for Praetorian essences isn't as capricious as it initially sounds.

I am assuming no, because future encounters will probably be designed around the assumption you are using X number of the Incarnate slots.

I blame the past openness of the developers. Now everyone and his or her brother thinks they can change the game by hollering loudly enough.

Everyone.

(Imagines Venture looking all grayscale, sitting at a big oak desk, counting bills in a dark room lit by a single lamp and smoking a cigar as he says this.)

D:

Ech you're probably right, won't be able to get the later powers until you the rest of the powers with a slot in AND they design encounters around everyone having atleast one pet summon.

If we don't holler we're not going to be heard.

Heck I don't mind the lack of solo options because I don't mind teaming. The Incarnate System is inherently less grindy than other endgame progression namely because I'm not fighting people for loot using a DKP or Suicide Kings system and having to turn up for four raids in a week to earn enough to get the loot when it eventually drops.

Just really wish that, as mentioned above, they didn't make every single thing in the Incarnate System to do with Praetoria...there are bigger threats out there...

Heck I bet even the Well itself is filling it's interdimensional trousers at the thought of Rularuu or the Banished Pantheon awakening and back at full power since they would be an Equal.

Ok, but how will this negate or diminish the current slots' inextricable tie to Praetoria?

No, but the meta rationale is. It's unnecessarily tying gameplay mechanics to a specific storyline. Again.

One might expect a slot called "lore" to be tied to the game world somehow, and I'm not complaining that it is, just that it's tied to this one specific and pretty shallow part of the world that ultimately is saying "those Oranbegan ruins you explored? That century-old Nemesis plot you uncovered? Those things don't matter." It's driving home the point that you're not earning those powers, you're receiving them as a reward for sucking up to the Well.

You should. Not. Have. To. There is no excuse for making you choose between skipping a potential gameplay advantage and accepting a story element you dislike.

The Shadow Shard reflections don't want those praetorian losers sitting at their lunch table.