Praetorians...They're kinda boring

This came up in the floating fortress official topic and it sorta made me realize something that seems fairly worthy of discussion (but not worthy of completely derailing that topic). See, I don't know about everyone else, but I'm quite the villain-fanatic. A good villain can make a great story, and a bad one can break it just as easily. And CoH, I'd say, does have some pretty good villains. But looking at the new "All Praetoria, all the time!" focus that we seem to be shifting to, I'm starting to wonder...why the heck do I care about the Praetorian Guard?

I seem to remember comments along the lines of the idea that Praetoria was supposed to be "so much more than goatee Paragon" and, I'll note that for characters created there, in those first 20 levels, it certainly is. It's an interesting and complex world with some good stories to tell. Marauder, Chimera, Mother Mayhem, even Bobcat all have decent amounts of characterization. The thing is, these stories end, then, skip forward to the new endgame, and there's no difference between "Primal" and "Praetorian" as players go. Everyone's "Primal" by that point and, maybe because of that, all that characterization is gone. These guys have become nothing more than more sacks of HP to whittle down. The ones that don't appear in the 1-20 arcs get even less. Siege is just...there. Diabolique is still one of the most annoying bosses in the game, but still one of the most pointless in terms of her character even existing.

And Tyrant, the supposed biggest baddest boogieman of them all? Doesn't even appear anymore. He's just kinda out there. Oh, and he wants to invade Primal Earth. Really? Take a number, buddy. The Rikti were here first. Rularuu's ahead of you, too. And Reichsman. I can go on, really. But really looking at it, you could basically replace the Praetorian Guard mobs in the Apex TF with Rikti and it would be exactly the same story. The only thing these guys have going for them really is being "goatee Paragon".

I'm not sure the current approach to the content is doing anything to help this, either. TFs and Raids aren't exactly geared towards expanding story and characterization. The system just isn't set up that way.

So, in the end, it's been 1½ issues, and the Praetorians are already losing their shine. I've rambled a lot, I tend to do that, but I guess my hope is just to say that I just can't bring myself to be too excited by these guys when I barely even know them. We know Praetoria can tell a good story, but we're desperately in need of more of it.

Are you being disloyal, citizen?

I find all these i20 previews boring. I've been well and truly convinced that the Incarnate system - and everything associated with it - isn't for me, so now I'm just sort of sitting here thinking "Yeah, well, what've you got for me?"

I'm sure there's more to i20 than Incarnate Trials; I just wish they would say something about that part.

At least i15 let me punch Nazis.

Welcome to the club.

CoX has got some absolutely superb villains that are screaming for more content and yet instead we have potentially the dullest villain group issue after issue. I have no idea of what else is in i20 but I really do hope there's more than just more Praetoria.

I'd far rather be punching Rularuu in the face than getting one shotted by guard towers for my Incarnate status.

Agreed.
I mean. I meant seriously, there's multiple zones worth of Shadow Shard content not yet explored! You could make a villainside Shadow shard WITHOUT RECYCLING ANY OF THE HERO ZONES.

Then let's not forget that the KoA seem to only exist to do the dirty work of Malta when they are supposed to be mercenaries who would work for anyone. Oh, and they seem able to send thousands of their people at you even though they're canonically supposed to number only in the hundreds. (they could at least given minions and Lt.s a teleport away effect when defeated to show their numbers are remaining conserved)

And expanding on the Tsoo and warriors. Maybe give them a long term goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

What I want to know is when all these invading forces are going get the damned message that you don't **** with Primal.

Not more of that.

Can't we just have a topic of feedback to tell the devs there are dramatically better enemies to use for any endgame content, instead of 100 pages of people trying to convince GG that the textbook fascist Praetorians aren't Nazis?

She will respond the same way to whatever you post, and you're wrong anyway, so please DON'T.

Anyway, yes, there are dramatically better enemies. In particular, yes, I would rather punch Rularuu for incarnate status than some humanoids, and their goatee status is the most interesting thing about them and should be explored. More praetorian alternates could show up for example. But they seriously limited any story possibilities of the praetorian dimension by including the seers and thus requiring any enemy groups to have psychic protection or some way to hide or be sponsored by the praetorians.

My problem with Praetorians is that they suffer from "guy with a gun" syndrome. Aside from the AV's and robots (which we've been presented with as the Praetorian rumbas), we just facing off against more guys with guns. To me, that's quite boring visually and thematically. I suppose it's true of a lot of mobs in CoX: the Fifth, Council, Malta, Praetorians. They have extraordinary weapons, I suppose, but they're just ordinary people.

I personally enjoy the mobs whose appearance matches their threat. Rularuu, though they have only a few variations in their ranks, look and feel very threatening.