Market griefing - enough already

You can play the game w/o ever entering the market and you will learn more about how to play well without using Inventions.

As other have also pointed out, selling all your drops as you get them to the Market will net you plenty, over time. That's right, it takes time.

I have played the game since about Day 4. I rarely do anything with Inventions until at least the 30's. I don't ever expect to 'IO out' more than a few characters, either. I think that is a big problem - many players seem to think that the only way to play is to fully 'purple out' every character and that is simply not needed.

If you want the good stuff, it takes time. You are not entitled to it just because you subscribe.

I'd hate see what the op would say if they tried badging in a pvp zone...

I think the problem, especially with the commons, is that there's little real value in actually posting them to the marketplace in the first place. Especially given how rarely even sell for vendor price for the materials.

A simple solution would be to open a salvage store that sold any common salvage for 1 merit each, or more salvage per merit if that's too high. Selling common salvage for inf would put an effective cap on salvage prices as well... nobody would pay 100k for a common salvage at the market if they cost 10k inf at a store.

Another solution would be to link in-game drop rates to (relative) prices. Assume that all common salvage 'should' be worth the same price, average the sell prices to see what that price is, and then drop more of the ones above that price, and less of the ones below it. This would work well, and the game would naturally respond to market fluctuations by giving more of what people need.

Yes, my suggestion was to fix the problem of market prices being out of hand, and of people buying and deleting salvage to drive prices up. A store that sold common salvage for 10k would automatically make market prices max out at 10k... common salvage price inflation solved! Being able to easily get specific salvage during normal game play (with merits rather than tickets) would reduce demand, driving down prices.

Linking drop rates to market prices would ensure that the supply always matched the demand. Again, problem solved as anyone that buys and deletes massive quantities of a salvage item merely ensures that other people will be getting them as drops.

'We already have a way to do that' is a bad argument. After all, we don't need trams or base teleporters, we can just walk to our destination! Wouldn't it be wonderful if the devs simply said that? We don't need multiple ways to increase power, levels should be enough. Or slots. Or accolade powers. Or set bonuses. Or Incarnate abilities... note that 'already having a way' is not exactly a compelling argument here?

I would support the idea of a salvage store, so long as it only sold, never bought, and had a purchase throttle. Set the prices at what Devs consider the "cap" level for a given salvage based on drop rate and demand for recipes. That way, when the market gets sapped/inflated for a given salvage, it would give less experienced/inf carrying members who aren't on daily a second option to craft that IO that they're wanting to craft.

I could ALSO support the ability to combine salvage the way that you current can inspirations. Allow someone to combine 3-5 common salvage into on specific common salvage item, or 3-5 rare into one specific rare. This could both help casual players more easily get what they need in a timely manner AND allow marketeers to earn a buck here and there by monitoring demand and actually "filling it" as needed.

Just ideas, but Im not entirely unsatisfied with the way the market works now.

There is a real problem? LOL! Because you say so? You are playing with words that you didn't say it was broken but then say there is a real problem. There is no griefing, it is your perception.

I have 2 crafters that I use to keep the SG bins filled. I place a bid for what I want and will pay for, go play, come back to get the stuff, and craft. Been doing it for years win no griefing, just impatient players whining.

This is my first post on these Forums, and I do it with reticence. There are more posts of condescention and "neener-neener-ing" than there are actual points and counterpoints, but that's the same for every Forum I've participated in. Seems like some people measure their wit and intelligence by verbally slapping at people who want to communicate and discuss issues.

But enough about that.

I'm a relatively new player to this game. I left World of Warcraft after 5 1/2 years because I got tired of Blizzard and wanted a change. My 14 day free trial here lasted about four hours. I have enjoyed this game and I'll be playing it for a good, long while.

To the point of "market griefing" I can only attest to how difficult it has been for me to compete with the long-time veterans who've had literally years to accumulate large piles of the "coin of the realm".

When I started as a semi-clueless newbie, the thought of having a few hundred thousand Influence was exhilarating...until I went to Wentworth's.

I had a couple of people offer to give me Influence as a gift to a new player. At first I politely refused, wanting to pay my own freight, as it were. I learned to accept those gifts.

Initially, I learned to sell the two inspirations you were given in the tutorial. That allowed my new character to purchase Training Enhancements. Poor...but better than nothing.

I learned about AE ticket farms. I unknowingly bypassed game content (thank goodness for Ouroboros) by running them for tickets to buy DOs, and eventually SOs starting at level 22.

When I looked at the cost of crafting IOs, and how much the salvage was going for, I decided to stick with AE ticket farms until I had a larger cash reserve. You know the ones...all bosses, with an ally. Run them and collect the tickets.

Well, folks, it takes over 3000 tickets to outfit a mid-20's character with SOs. And as you know, they lessen in effectivenes as you level up. So...vicious cycle. XP off...run AE farm. Replace enhancements. Resume gaming. And, by the way, SOs are better than standard IOs until you get to level 40. That's a lot of tickets.

Ok, I've played long enough and made enough Influence that now I can compete. I do the crafting thing for badges and player effectiveness. Besides, the devs kill every AE ticket farm the can find. Sure...go spend AE tickets on salvage. That works, but getting tickets isn't as easy as it once was. I have one farm I use still, from time to time. I'll admit I'm not sharp enough yet to write my own. People that have them guard them. They don't talk about them and/or take them down when they aren't in use.

I've learned some tricks. Some I figured out on my own. Others I learned from veteran friends I'd made. I have one character that has 50 million, one at about 170 millon and one at 205 million. With the candy cane craze during the winter vent, most of my lowbies have 8-15 million. I'm not rich, but I can at least hold my own.

Now, to those who say, "Have patience! Don't pay the 'I want it NAO' price!" well, how much patience are you asking?

On four separate characters, I placed bids for Alchemical Silver at 125,000 each. Then I parked them. I'd come back from time to time and check. After THREE WEEKS, not one item had been purchased. The going price was between 175k and a quarter mil.

Two of those characters are still parked. On one I just beggared her and paid for the silver. On the other, I spent my AE tickets I'd earned earlier. For a level 30-ish Blaster, that's 18 of those Alchemical Silvers. Two ACC slots for 9 powers. The odd part is, the other half of the crafting formula (Mathmatic Proof, I think it is) costs MUCH less. Why is that?

It's the same with Luck Charms. Accuracy needs them. Luck Charms are 25-50k each. The other half? Boresights can cost as little as 250 each to as much as 1000 each...not even close to the Luck Charms. Why is that?

If two items are needed for the same thing, shouldn't the demand (and therefore the price) be the same?

And don't tell me you need Luck Charms for more than just Accuracy IOs. Boresights work that way as well. Still, one is expensive. The other is not.

I do think people are fiddling with the market. I've heard of the "Crazy 88s" to whom the market IS the game. Do I have a solution? No...I'm not that smart.

I just wanted to offer the viewpoint of an actual new player. It's hard.

Sure...I can go without slots. I can get killed in missions that others smoke without effort. But why? This is a game...supposed to be fun. Frustration isn't fun...so I try to make my characters as good as may be within my resource pool.

That pool is getting larger...but I haven't forgotten what it was like getting my tookus handed to me in the Hollows when having a million Influence seemed like an unattainable fortune. I will not buy influence. That's against the EULA, and it's wrong on many levels. I'm doing it right. Trying to, anyway.

If "market griefing" is happening, and it seems it is, I have to wonder what kind of person takes pleasure in causing problems for others. The term "schadenfreude" comes to mind.

If there's a way to stop this nonsense, or at least dial it down a bit, I'm all for it.

I'll hop down off my soapbox now and await my inevitable roasting.

Happy gaming.

First off, welcome to the game! I am very glad that you like it, and I'm glad that you'll be staying a while.

Now, to your points (in no particular order).

1) You do not need to buy IOs to compete. The game is still balanced (at least in normal content) on SOs. As such, if you sell all of your salvage that you find running through the game, you should have more than enough influence to buy normal enhancements. Those high sell prices help out the sellers, if you're not also buying things.

2) As a new player, I don't know why you'd expect to be able to compete with players that have been here for years, especially since they've had years to build up influence stores before there even was a market. (A bit of history for you, before the market came out, one of the Devs came out on record saying that there was over 3 TRILLION influence in circulation. While that has likely gone up, you see why many people think that this game needs influence sinks).

3) A single player can do little to affect the long-term inflation of prices. As such, market griefing by single players doesn't do a whole lot. Another person listing the item at 5 influence will sell before the "griefer's" items priced at 100,000, regardless of the bidders price.

4) Before Incarnate content came out, there was little to do at the end game. The game focused highly on making alts and going through the game again. As such, there were usually a lot of players on at all levels. With the Incarnate stuff going on, there are a lot more people playing their high-level toons at the expense of making new ones. This means that there are fewer people generating low-level salvage items. However, the demand for these items hasn't gone down as much. So there's less salvage supply, and constant demand, which means that prices go up. Because of this, it becomes a seller's market. Run magic-enemy content, and you can make bank selling the in-demand salvage.

5) Using tickets on SOs is a decent idea, but you might actually make more money using those 3000 tickets to buy random magic salvage rolls, and selling what you get.

6) Be glad that you came into the game now, where there are alternate ways for new players and low-level toons to make money. In the early issues of the game, the Dev thought was that characters shouldn't be able to afford a full set of SOs at level 22. Influence gain was about the same as it is now, but there was no market to sell random stuff on, stores only sold the "power ten" enhancements (so enhancements like Endurance Modification were only sold from your contacts, at VASTLY inflated prices), and the only way to make lots of money at the low levels was to hand it down from someone else. It's much easier to outfit a low-level character now than it ever was.


I hope this helps a little. And please don't judge these forums based on the S&I forum. It is known to be one of the more...contentious...spots on the forums. If you ask a question in the Player Questions forum, there's an unofficial race among some of us to give a helpful answer quickly. These forums are some of the best I've seen in terms of community. The S&I forums just don't always show that.

Korilynn:

You have your own solution. You've been using AE tickets to buy SOs, and can't afford or can't see your bids for some salvage filled. Don't do it that way. Use the AE tickets to roll on random common salvage. Use what you need, sell what you don't. I make a fair bit (not rich) of inf that way, listing what I don't need for 5 inf.