City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Market griefing - enough already

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-22 19:02 in Suggestions and Ideas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Perverse View Post
Buying up all the commons and selling for high prices isn't good for the new players. Sure they can sell and get some cash in their pocket. But when it comes time to buy and craft. They don't have enough influence or infamy to buy these common salvages to craft. Now is the part where you say, 20mins in AE will get you 1500 tickets and then you can trade those for commons. Do the new players who are learning the invention system really know this? Some do, but my guess is that most do not.
New players are also not under the delusion that they "need" to buy or craft IO's in order to play the game. They are perfectly happy using the regular TO's, DO's and SO's until some mini-maxing "gottahaveitnao" loser convinces them otherwise.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Perverse View Post
Buying up all the commons and selling for high prices isn't good for the new players. Sure they can sell and get some cash in their pocket. But when it comes time to buy and craft. They don't have enough influence or infamy to buy these common salvages to craft. Now is the part where you say, 20mins in AE will get you 1500 tickets and then you can trade those for commons. Do the new players who are learning the invention system really know this? Some do, but my guess is that most do not.
Ignorance is never an excuse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
New players are also not under the delusion that they "need" to buy or craft IO's in order to play the game. They are perfectly happy using the regular TO's, DO's and SO's until some mini-maxing "gottahaveitnao" loser convinces them otherwise.
This may be true for the truly NEW player. However, for the players who have come from other games (and I speak from experience here), it's not the mindset they usually come to the game with.

In most other games, there's a category of equipment generally referred to as "Vendor Trash". It comprises the lowest tier or two of equipment. While you can function with a character equipped only with "Grey" or "White" equipment (In WoW terms), you're not going to function well.

When you begin upgrading to "Green" equipment, you start getting stat bonuses. As you progress to "Blue", "Purple", "Orange" and "Red" equipment (their tiers follow a different color-coding than ours do), the bonuses get greater in number, and more numerous per piece of equipment. In addition, you can get even more bonuses if the equipment you have all comes from the same set.

In these loot-based games, the quality of your gear is everything. If you don't have at least some good gear, you will die. A LOT.

So someone with a long experience in these games is going to see the TO/DO/SOs, and even the common IOs as "Vendor Trash" and avoid them at all costs, heading straight for the sets. And that's where the sticker shock comes in.

Another contributing factor is that our market doesn't scale. In those other games, most equipment has a minimum level, just like here. The higher the minimum level, the more the equipment costs, often increasing on an exponential scale - that's where things deviate so much here. Go look at the difference in prices between the minimum and maximum levels of special IOs like Karma: Knockback Protection, Steadfast Protection: Res/Def, or Luck of the Gambler: Increased Global Recharge Speed. The lowest level will usually be about the same as the highest, if not more expensive. But a newbie seeing that a level 10 Karma: KB Prot costs about 50 million may make the assumption that, by level 50, they will HAVE to spend hundreds of millions, if not billions, PER ENHANCEMENT, for every enhancement in their build, because that's on par with the games they've played before. While costs in that range DO exist, and it's possible to make a build where every enhancement is in that range, it's far from the norm.

@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by madsness View Post
Given the howls of protest that will arise over any restrictions on the market I'd prefer to see it just made easier to transfer salvage between my alts - the dreaded common account based storage vault (i'd even be happy with it being restricted to the server as well).
Yes I know I can mail salvage to myself, piece by piece, but that is decidedly tedious and requires a lot of alt swapping to find which character has what I want
This.

My ideal scenario is unified storage across my account. Storage size increases or decreases with the number of alts I have and the level they're at. If I delete an alt I lose access to however many slots I gain from them.

Mailing is nice, as you noted, but a royal PitA that would require excessive out of game record keeping to be truly useful.

Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.

 

Posted

This thread really inspired me to give more effort to the market.

Last night, I made a ton of influence (well, alot for me). The most I made at one time ever. Very funny.

Thanks all!



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
This may be true for the truly NEW player. However, for the players who have come from other games (and I speak from experience here), it's not the mindset they usually come to the game with.
I didn't say the losers that poisoned their minds with delusions that they must have the "best stuff" were only from this game. I've seen people that asked about CoH in other games being advised they had to have certain things to make the most powerful characters.

 

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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
I've had a bid (canceled it yesterday I think) for 1 Alchemical Silver for I think 50k or 75k (too expensive for my tastes I think but it was 'cheaper' than the "buy now price" of 150k to 500k).

Never got it...even after I did at least 2-4 runs (which is about 2-3 salvage 'full' trips with my toon to the market) with my Claws/SR Brute getting ~1,300 AE tickets in a few mins and doing all common arcance salvage rolls in the 26-40 range and selling everything I got for 11 influence; again, the cheapest I ever saw the Alchemical Silvers being bought for was ~150k.
Okay, I'm having difficulty interpreting exactly what you're saying. In the second paragraph, are you saying you rolled 1,300 tickets for alchemical silver (that's 162.5 rolls) and never got any? That seems like pretty outlandish bad luck.

In the FIRST paragraph, you're saying you thought alchemical silver shouldn't cost very much?

And, combining both paragraphs, you're saying you couldn't get a type of salvage to drop or roll even though you tried hard, AND you think it should be cheap?

Uh, things that are hard to get aren't usually cheap.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Korilynn View Post
Some recipes are more sought after than others? Got it. Still doesn't explain the huge discrepancy. Fifty to one? That's Luck Charms and Boresights. Look it up. Do the math. A hundred times? That's the Alch Silver and Math Proofs.
Sure it does. In real life, oil costs $100 a barrel right now, but you can get a pickup truck bed full of fill dirt for free.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Sure it does. In real life, oil costs $100 a barrel right now, but you can get a pickup truck bed full of fill dirt for free.
Deal! I expect delivery of my dirt within the week, good sir!

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Deal! I expect delivery of my dirt within the week, good sir!
You'll have to pay for the gas the pickup truck uses to get to you, though.



Character index

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
You'll have to pay for the gas the pickup truck uses to get to you, though.
And unfortunately, the oil to make that gas is running $100 a barrel.

Global- @SailorET, Justice Server
Sheryl Fiero, 50 AR/Devices Blaster
Louise Fiero, 50 Merc/Traps MM
Various assorted alts
Proudly serving in our military so you don't have to.

 

Posted

What?! Nerf the market?!

It's the best PvP in the game! All AT's are equal!

I don't flip salvage, but you can always out flip the flipper if you really want to fight them.

Honestly, the Rubies and Never Melting Ices are probably getting cleared down to low levels because there are so many 50's running these days and they are being used or stored for later use. Of course, once they are used they are gone for good.

Could run some non-farming AE missions for some different action in game and gain some tickets and buy the Rubies and Never Melting Ice with those ...
... or check the prices of the things you want to make ...
... at some point, it's easy to decide that - buying the crafted item is worth more to you by saving time than saving a little inf by buying salvage and taking time to crafting things yourself.

Post your bids on what you want to buy at prices you are willing to pay. Play another character for a couple of days and come back. See what you were able to get for what you thought they were worth. You might be suprised.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I think it's funny that you think the time it takes to run 2-4 missions is showing patience. When in actuality it's about as patient as a 5 year old sitting in the back of a car asking

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?

Patience is measured in days and even weeks not minutes and hours.

hehe, if you read my post you would have noticed I waited a week on the bid. :P

Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991

 

Posted

I noticed this morning that Alchemical Gold has totally jumped up in price on the market...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
hehe, if you read my post you would have noticed I waited a week on the bid. :P
Two days ago, I logged in to some characters that I hadn't for almost 130 days. I noticed that they had bids up on the market for Alchemical Silver for something like 50 to 75k that had yet to be fulfilled. I must have put those bids in at least 130 days ago, and totally forgot about them.

So... yeah!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Okay, I'm having difficulty interpreting exactly what you're saying. In the second paragraph, are you saying you rolled 1,300 tickets for alchemical silver (that's 162.5 rolls) and never got any? That seems like pretty outlandish bad luck.

In the FIRST paragraph, you're saying you thought alchemical silver shouldn't cost very much?

And, combining both paragraphs, you're saying you couldn't get a type of salvage to drop or roll even though you tried hard, AND you think it should be cheap?

Uh, things that are hard to get aren't usually cheap.

Sorry, no I'll try explaining a bit better.

I put a bid on 1 Alchemical Silver for 50-75k (don't remember price)....

I have put (lower) bids on things and then rolled AE tickets on common salvage (usually what I need on the other toon that's making 'em) and just sell everything I get for 11 influence so that all the 'high' bidders/bids go away and I buy things for the 20k or whatever it is I bid on (before emailing things was available).

So, in this case, I bid on the Alchem. Silver (a low bid) and, like I said, ran a couple (2-3, again not sure) AE missions (enough to get around 3-4k tickets if I saved 'em up) and just rolled common salvage (arcane since that's what Alchem. Silvers are in). I did get the salvage from the rolls no problem there.

Then whatever I got from those rolls I just put on the market for, again, 11 inf. After the, let's say, 30-40 alchem. silvers that I put out on the market I never saw the price drop below 150k (hence my toon that was bidding at 50-75k not buying one).

All I'm getting at is that when people say "just be patient"; sometimes that doesn't help (unless the person is willing to wait longer obviously). Heck, I put a few bids on some nice recipes in hopes that someone will mis-type and sell it for 1 inf....but those recipes are still "buying"


I'd really love an NPC store that just sold all levels of invention salvage; it'd help I think.

Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
Sorry, no I'll try explaining a bit better.

I put a bid on 1 Alchemical Silver for 50-75k (don't remember price)....

I have put (lower) bids on things and then rolled AE tickets on common salvage (usually what I need on the other toon that's making 'em) and just sell everything I get for 11 influence so that all the 'high' bidders/bids go away and I buy things for the 20k or whatever it is I bid on (before emailing things was available).

So, in this case, I bid on the Alchem. Silver (a low bid) and, like I said, ran a couple (2-3, again not sure) AE missions (enough to get around 3-4k tickets if I saved 'em up) and just rolled common salvage (arcane since that's what Alchem. Silvers are in). I did get the salvage from the rolls no problem there.

Then whatever I got from those rolls I just put on the market for, again, 11 inf. After the, let's say, 30-40 alchem. silvers that I put out on the market I never saw the price drop below 150k (hence my toon that was bidding at 50-75k not buying one).

So you deliberately underbid a high demand item and then sold 30-40 of that same item knowing full well that the market is set up so the highest bid goes to the lowest sales price just so you could try to twist the facts to make it look like theres a problem.

Sorry but the fact that theres other players willing to pay more than you doesn't mean the market isn't working as intended.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
I'd really love an NPC store that just sold all levels of invention salvage; it'd help I think.
Fortunately, we do. Even taking into account the random element for common salvage, AE is the closest thing to a NPC-store with decent time/reward ratio we have - and the price paid is playing the superpowered game you're subscribing to as opposed to the market mini-game. Enjoy!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilmeister View Post
Fortunately, we do. Even taking into account the random element for common salvage, AE is the closest thing to a NPC-store with decent time/reward ratio we have - and the price paid is playing the superpowered game you're subscribing to as opposed to the market mini-game. Enjoy!
Now if only the Black Market/Wentworths set up business on the bottom floor of the AE buildings, took the merit vendor in with them, and the ticket vendor moved down to stand next to him.

In fact, next to those two guys should be another vendor that sells all types and levels of SOs and inspirations like that one in the Vanguard base. It'd totally be the Architect Entertainment Bazaar!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
So you deliberately underbid a high demand item and then sold 30-40 of that same item knowing full well that the market is set up so the highest bid goes to the lowest sales price just so you could try to twist the facts to make it look like theres a problem.

Sorry but the fact that theres other players willing to pay more than you doesn't mean the market isn't working as intended.

I wasn't saying the market wasn't working as intended (in fact I liked making millions (over the course of everything I sold)); I was trying to do what I did before emailing salvage was available to us. Sell stuff at the lowest possible so that the highest ("insane prices" to me) bids go away so that my "low ball" bid is the highest....was just surprised it didn't even budge after 30-40 times.


And no I don't count the AE as NPCs that sell salvage...I'd like to see an NPC that is just like any other store where you can buy enhancements/inspirations from; but this one would sell invention salvage (or just add it to most of the other NPC stores already here).


Edit: Oh and I totally "can't wait" for the 84 month badge/reward... /auctionhouse being used anywhere? nice

Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
I wasn't saying the market wasn't working as intended (in fact I liked making millions (over the course of everything I sold)); I was trying to do what I did before emailing salvage was available to us. Sell stuff at the lowest possible so that the highest ("insane prices" to me) bids go away so that my "low ball" bid is the highest....was just surprised it didn't even budge after 30-40 times.

Yeah I kinda assumed the number of people bidding was close enough that even a lowball bid should have been picked up when you sold 40 items. I've seen that happen a few times myself and I can only guess that enough new bids kept coming in to keep the sale from happening.


Quote:
Edit: Oh and I totally "can't wait" for the 84 month badge/reward... /auctionhouse being used anywhere? nice
Me too.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven View Post
I noticed this morning that Alchemical Gold has totally jumped up in price on the market...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
Not me. I did buy 5 alch gold for 3.3m each though just to mess with the last 5.
Boredom at its finest.

 

Posted

Honestly the only major change I would like to see on the market would be the ability to see the last 50 transactions instead of just the last 5.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate View Post
Honestly the only major change I would like to see on the market would be the ability to see the last 50 transactions instead of just the last 5.
Yeah having a little button showing more than 5 history or something would be nice as well.

Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991

 

Posted

Right. How I would like to see it, would be to have the last 5 like normal, then an option to open up a window to see up to the last 50. That way you could see if the history of the last 50 sales were all over the place, you can expect to eventually buy it for a decent price. But if the price is constant, you chances are much lower.

No limitations on anyones freedoms and it would make it easier for people to figure out a fair bid as well as a fair sales price.

Granted some can try to inflate the market buy buying 50 of something at high prices to mess with the history, but that would only prove counter productive for them in the long run.

My guess as to why this has not been done is that it would take the market system forever to display those bids and would make the market overall slower.