Everything goes in cycles. Space Sci-fi enjoyed a renaissance, now it's on the decline again until the next upswing.
Space sci-fi is dead in the same way computer gaming is.
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I would argue it is cyclical - was dead at the time until Star Wars first hit and revitalized Star Trek et al... And I'd say that at present in film superheroes seem to be leading the pack in terms of the 'sci-fi-ish' film work.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm curious as to your thoughts on this... It seems that Sci-fi is a dead or dying genre...or rather Space sci-fi, not just any sci-fi, but the ones that talk about exploring space and such...
Star Trek Star Wars Far Scape Mission Genesis Serenity Star Gate Lexx etc... It seems that every space ship sci-fi show is being canceled or are gone... |
But, I don't have to. Looking at recent history, did you forget Avatar - one of the biggest films of all time? 'Cowboys and Aliens' coming. 'Invasion: LA' (or whatever its called) coming. 'V' running on TV now... new BSG in development...
dead? not hardly
And moving to different mediums - some excellent sci-fi novels out at present.
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Shows run their course. The remake of Battlestar Galactica ended not that long ago, and Stargate Universe was just canceled a couple of months ago.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm curious as to your thoughts on this... It seems that Sci-fi is a dead or dying genre...or rather Space sci-fi, not just any sci-fi, but the ones that talk about exploring space and such...
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Galactica's Blood and Chrome just started production, and will probably be a "space opera."
And the Cartoon Network appears to be running new episodes Star Wars: Clone Wars (though I've never watched it).
Space opera can be expensive to produce because of extensive CGI (if you want it to look good) and difficulties with getting alien planets to look different. The Stargate series was a good example: every planet they went to looked like Canada, unless they filmed in a quarry, which they pretended was a desert.
Stargate Universe tried to do space opera on the cheap by having almost everything happen inside the ship (cheap sets), using Canada planets as necessary (though they did manage to find a nice desert-like location) and by reusing stock CGI shots of the ship zooming through space.
It doesn't really mean much of anything that there aren't a lot of space shows airing just now. There have been many periods since Star Trek first aired when there were no space-oriented shows on TV, but many have come and gone.
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From what you cited, it seems to me that TV is dying, not science fiction, let alone space opera. Anyway, I don't watch TV very much anymore except via the DVR--a friend's DVR as I don't own a TV or DVR myself.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Star Trek
Star Wars Far Scape Mission Genesis Serenity Star Gate Lexx etc... It seems that every space ship sci-fi show is being canceled or are gone... |
I've been reading that there is a similar decline in the publishing market too but, really, you could have fooled me having just finished Anathem, Vacuum Diagrams and a Use of Weapons. I've heard that e-readers are reviving things a bit too but I refuse to own one of those blasted things.
As someone else in the thread said, these things seem to go in generational cycles.
What I think may be happening is something like franchise fatigue. People are getting tired of seeing revival, re-boots, re-makes and continuations of the old money makers. Really, I'm sick to death of Trek and Star Wars. I want something new! Here are some examples of space opera I'd like to see as movies or television series:
- Niven's Known Space
- Vinge's Zones of Thought
- Bank's Culture
- Baxter's Xeelee Sequence
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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You forgot Alastair Reynolds' "series which I don't think has a snappy name but starts with Revelation Space."
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Originally Posted by synthozoic
From what you cited, it seems to me that TV is dying, not science fiction, let alone space opera. Anyway, I don't watch TV very much anymore except via the DVR--a friend's DVR as I don't own a TV or DVR myself.
I've been reading that there is a similar decline in the publishing market too but, really, you could have fooled me having just finished Anathem, Vacuum Diagrams and a Use of Weapons. I've heard that e-readers are reviving things a bit too but I refuse to own one of those blasted things. As someone else in the thread said, these things seem to go in generational cycles. What I think may be happening is something like franchise fatigue. People are getting tired of seeing revival, re-boots, re-makes and continuations of the old money makers. Really, I'm sick to death of Trek and Star Wars. I want something new! Here are some examples of space opera I'd like to see as movies or television series:
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It's not dead, just one sub genre is currently out of favor or catching a breather while others step up to fill it's place.
Currently alien invasions or aliens among us seem to be popular (V, Battle LA, Super 8, I am Four). Let's not count out Fringe or Primeval. The going back in time to escape a dieing Earth series from Spielberg is starting up in May (to lazy to look up it's title) but it will have dinosaurs.
As others pointed out, space based series tend to be expensive to do without long term planning. B5 for instance was able to be relatively low budget because the season was planned out so far in advance that nothing really needed to be a rush job in the effects department.
Which ties into the problem that US viewers want their special effects to look as good as the latest big budget effects laden movie and that's simply not going to happen. So it's only going to be a few pretty good effects or a lot of 10 year old looking ones or recycling the effects done for the pilot.
I constantly see people refer to SciFi shows of the late 70s and early 80s as campy because of the quality of effects (as well as what passed for acceptable plots and pacing). Those shows weren't meant to be campy its just today's youth expect a much higher level in effects quality. They've simply been spoiled. Old Doctor Who wasn't campy, it was done on a shoestring budget.
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I don't think it's dead, so much as, what was said before, cyclical.
Genres tend to feed upon themselves until they burst forth many duplicators and inspired-by films, books and games. Then a new shiny comes long, and everyone gravitates to it, putting a lull on the last big thing.
Everyone tires of that when something new comes along, and it keeps going and going until someone comes up with something that fits in an earlier genre, which sparks new interest in the subject.
That's why in the last 12 years we went from high budget martial-arts action films to boy wizards and from boy wizards to vampires and from vampires to werewolves and from werewolves to superhero films.
It will come back to space sci-fi eventually.
If you listen to the radio a lot, you'll see (well hear) this in action. A song will come out, be popular or hated, and will fade away. Then during an all request time a year or two or five later, someone will ask for that song and several people will hear it. They'll start thinking about it, and then they start requesting it as well, telling their friends about it, and buying the cd it's on or downloading it from iTunes or some other source. Suddenly that song is everywhere again.
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Actually I haven't read any Reynolds yet. I may have to take a look. Any recommendations to start with?
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Originally Posted by Smersh
You forgot Alastair Reynolds' "series which I don't think has a snappy name but starts with Revelation Space."
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"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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Well...|
Originally Posted by synthozoic
Actually I haven't read any Reynolds yet. I may have to take a look. Any recommendations to start with?
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If you like film noir, Century Rain's a nice one-off. Otherwise, I'd probably start with Revelation Space and follow it up with Chasm City.
I've re-read Chasm City a couple of times, but I haven't been able to reread the main series (Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Absolution Gap) because my copy of Revelation Space went missing somewhere. Chasm City is a self-contained story in the same universe, and I do like it quite a bit.
Reynold's science is very good, as far as I can tell, though he does take an extreme hard line on the Fermi Paradox.
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We'll sci-fi's longest running show is still going strong...Doctor Who!
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Well yeah but remember it took almost a 2 decade hiatus too.
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Originally Posted by Shadowclone
We'll sci-fi's longest running show is still going strong...Doctor Who!
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Yeah, the Man-Kzin Wars would make an awesome film- or tv-series. If done right, of course.
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Originally Posted by synthozoic
... Here are some examples of space opera I'd like to see as movies or television series:
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I alos agree with those who called it cyclical. Space style Sci-Fi like other genres also has a habit of being influenced by world events. prior to Star Trek and Star Wars sci-fi was actually not as well recieved. But then we had the launch into space and the hope and inspiration that came with it and suddenly we had a slew of people inspired by the space race.
Right now the inspiration doesnt seem to be there for that next great space opera. But some invention or event could come along that influences an author to make just that.
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I'm not really a big fan of TV sci-fi (I usually find them incredibly dry and dull). What TV sci-fi really needs is a show that's the sci-fi equivalent of Supernatural.
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Wobbly wobbly, timey wimey...
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Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
Well yeah but remember it took almost a 2 decade hiatus too.
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QR
Another factor is that science fiction largely reflects the dreams and hopes of its intended audience. 30-40 years ago, space was this big mysterious place full of potential. It was the return of the great open West, a place where a person with a vision and the will to see it done could shape the world(s) as he saw fit. We still thought big and grand and focused on things Out There, where we could expand to fill the... space. 
These days the focus has become more intimate and down to Earth. The dreams of the people revolve around technology, not the kind that plants a flag on another world, but the kind you use to make your drab real less drab (and often less real). It's less about claiming a new home for yourself than it is about repainting your prison cell a nominally less bleak shade of gray.
I'm a little drunk right now (shh!) so this isn't exactly a complete thought, but it'll do until tomorrow when I'm in full possession of my faculties and can elaborate more verbosely. The basic idea is that we don't dream big anymore, so our fiction has shrunk accordingly.
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Thanks for the recos, I'll start with Revelation Space. If he's got interesting speculation on the Big Silence, I can abide--it's only fiction, right?|
Originally Posted by Smersh
Reynold's science is very good, as far as I can tell, though he does take an extreme hard line on the Fermi Paradox.
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Originally Posted by sleestack
Yeah, the Man-Kzin Wars would make an awesome film- or tv-series. If done right, of course.
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The Man Kzin War shared world stuff I don't consider as canon and was never interested. My feelings are that Known Space ended with Ringworld Engineers and "Unsafe at Any Speed." But I know there are lots of fans out there that feel different.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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Given that they used the Kizinti in some Star Trek stuff, I'm not sure if the rights to use them are still in Niven's hands any more.
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Originally Posted by synthozoic
The Man Kzin War shared world stuff I don't consider as canon and was never interested. My feelings are that Known Space ended with Ringworld Engineers and "Unsafe at Any Speed." But I know there are lots of fans out there that feel different.
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I'd love to see the Hyperion series done right myself.
And I need to reread those, it's been a few years.
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As I recall, Niven wrote that episode of the animated Trek series. Saw it as a kid in grade school and then, years later, thought Niven was rather lazy to just adapt his great short story, "Soft Weapon" for Trek. He could have written something original, tsk. |
Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid
Given that they used the Kizinti in some Star Trek stuff, I'm not sure if the rights to use them are still in Niven's hands any more.
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Anyway, I don't consider that canon either.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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And Japan still has the 45 year long running Ultraman franchise. |
Originally Posted by Shadowclone
We'll sci-fi's longest running show is still going strong...Doctor Who!
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Hm....wonder how well a new Buck Rogers of Flash Gordon movie would fare today? Preferably without the camp/cheesy humor
I wouldn't say it's dying, just taking a vacation. I think it over-saturated the market, and the general masses had their fill. Odds are, there's plenty of new Space Sci-Fi to find, just not in the mainstream.
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I'm curious as to your thoughts on this... It seems that Sci-fi is a dead or dying genre...or rather Space sci-fi, not just any sci-fi, but the ones that talk about exploring space and such...
Star Trek
Star Wars
Far Scape
Mission Genesis
Serenity
Star Gate
Lexx
etc...
It seems that every space ship sci-fi show is being canceled or are gone...