Best Xp for the Diff?
By
BeornAgain,
Posted on: 2011-02-12 08:24 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
For teams, generally I find the best break point for XP to happen at about +2. Solo, it depends on the character. Most of my Controllers are forced to solo at -1, especially before level 45 or so, because they don't have enough damage.
The x number is even harder to guess at. It really depends on the character and your powers. My Ice/Rad troller can handle large groups, but they are impractical. My Mind/Cold troller, though, is much better off versus large groups because it makes more sense to use long recharge powers like Mass Confusion on a bunch of enemies at once. And my Elec/Force Field troller does best against about 8 to 10 enemies at a time, because that many enemies fuel his endurance recovery. You will have to experiment to see what works. IMO the major factor is finding a threshold where you can safely handle two groups of the size you select, because you will occasionally aggro multiples at once. Especially on a character with pets.
While it is all relative like OT said, I remember someone doing the math a while ago and concluding +2/x8 with bosses was the most efficient in terms of rewards/enemyhp. But if you can't handle that well, you just need to find the sweet spot for your character.
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I recall it being without bosses. The xp/time on them is a lot less than LTs I thought.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
While it is all relative like OT said, I remember someone doing the math a while ago and concluding +2/x8 with bosses was the most efficient in terms of rewards/enemyhp. But if you can't handle that well, you just need to find the sweet spot for your character.
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Hmm this is intresting, turning off bosses and just doing LTs? I am sure I could manage a +1/x8 on my MM to lvl. Will have to try this.
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Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
I recall it being without bosses. The xp/time on them is a lot less than LTs I thought.
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I'm guessing it can vary with different characters, but generally for farming the best rewards solo (inf/minute) was running at +3/x8 with no bosses. Now, I haven't tested it out yet, but with a level shift the best difficulty might actually be +4/x8 with no bosses.
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This is XP only and Pre 40. Generally looking for Advance on lvling up my MM but kinda looking in general peoples experience for lvling solo which Diff is best. Good Info so far keep it up =)
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I'm guessing it can vary with different characters, but generally for farming the best rewards solo (inf/minute) was running at +3/x8 with no bosses. Now, I haven't tested it out yet, but with a level shift the best difficulty might actually be +4/x8 with no bosses.
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Its a balance really, and it will vary from build to build,
it's not only about what your toon can handle, for instance your toon may be able to handle +2/with bosses/8 man, but it also about how quickly you can do said difficulty,
if it takes forever to complete the mish, its actually defeating the purpose, I would start with +1/wo bosses/ 4 man, and play around with the difficulty so you can the right balance of difficulty and speed
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Depends on team makeup or AT and build if solo. A team with decent AoE plus strong single target damage that can handle aggro (like Scrappers or Stalkers) can kill bosses about as fast as the rest of the spawn, and high-DPS single target characters can sometimes solo something like +2/x2/bosses faster than +0/x8/no bosses simply because they can kill even a boss quickly but they have to take things one target at a time.|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
I recall it being without bosses. The xp/time on them is a lot less than LTs I thought.
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In general I find the answer to be "whatever difficulty setting lets you wipe out all the minions without waiting for an AoE to recharge" (not counting misses) on squishies. If you can reduce a spawn to wounded Lts with one AoE attack chain you can mop them up and move on without having to take a ton of fire. Tougher characters who don't care how many things shoot at them can probably get away with a setting that lets them drop the minions around the same time as the LTs (assuming use of single target attacks on the LTs and AoEs to catch the minions).
As for those rare characters with full AoE attack chains, it's pretty much a matter of what you can survive and when you hit the point of dramatically longer kill times... like when your chance to hit drops below 95% or your damage really starts falling off. +4 is never optimal solo... it just takes too long even level shifted with a massive AoE build. I know most of the big farming builds seem to show the best results on +2/x8, so +3/x8 if level shifted may be optimal for an extreme build that never has to worry about survival.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
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Run Herostats. My scrapper will run at a different efficiency than your MM. Just like my scrapper runs at a different efficiency than my tank. Only way to be sure is to test your own toon at different difficulties.
If you don't need to be that accurate, run at the highest difficulty that does not slow down your kill time.
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Originally Posted by Jakarr
I have not been able to find a guide or a chart for this yet but was wondering.....
What is the best +/X for gaining xp solo. While yes I know +4/8 or as much as you can handle. Build in question is a Demon/DM MM around 28, I do -1/x8 very well but I do run into snags here and there but they are few and far. Questioning is would I gain better xp doing +1/x6? +4/x2? Etc etc. A Guide or a Chart for xp gained vs the Diff would be great but personal exp imo is almost as good. Thanks in Advance |
There is no one answer.
If you are shopping for purples only, -1x8, no bosses. VERY FAST RUNS only.
If you want to shake and bake all your drops, 0x8. (I find this to be the very best.)
If you want to max your prestige/inf/exp per killtime, +2x8. You can then craft drops, too.
If you want to max your prestige/inf/exp per killrun, +4x8.
NOTE: With level shift you can't get +4x8 any more, and the sweet spots move up by the amount of your level shift unless all you're looking for are purple drops, in which case -2x8 becomes very VERY fast.
Hope that clarifies things.
I swear Oedipus, you have the funniest/best toon names. 
'Joan of Arkansas' KILLS me, and 'Sigmund Droid'?! Where do you get this stuff!
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Lawn of the Dead and Atilla the Honey really got me.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
I swear Oedipus, you have the funniest/best toon names.
'Joan of Arkansas' KILLS me, and 'Sigmund Droid'?! Where do you get this stuff! |
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Originally Posted by mauk2
I swear Oedipus, you have the funniest/best toon names.
'Joan of Arkansas' KILLS me, and 'Sigmund Droid'?! Where do you get this stuff! |
Thank you, that means a lot. It's off topic but I'll write a little about this. We may want to start a thread elsewhere.
I am OCD about names. I cannot play a character with a name and costume I don't like. There are power combos I've never played because I can't think of a name or concept for them. And I suffered to 50 on a Scrapper just because I like the Joan character. Of course, sharing them is always a little hazardous. The name "Lawn of the Dead" vanished from Freedom about 2 days after I made my banner.
But if people enjoy them, I won't stop them.In terms of technique, I have brute force methods for generating lists. I used to work for my college yearbook as the "photo caption guy." What I do is start with a list of words associated with a concept. For Ice characters, it might be Cold, Freeze, Arctic, Polar. I also include things that might be associated with ice: Alaska, skiing, Siberia, refrigerators, etc. At other times I start with lists of historic figures, seasons, places, events, etc.
Anyway, I start with rhymes for these words. I mentally replace the first letter of each word with a new letter, and see if the pronunciation could lead to a new word or part of a phrase. You can use online tools to assist you, but I find that being able to do it mentally away from the computer when you are just bored sitting around somewhere often produces the best results, because trying to "force" concepts can end up giving you writer's block.
Example:
Cold:
Aold
Bold
Dold (Doled)
Eold
Fold
Gold
Hold
Then I do free association. The Cold Standard. Cold Yeller. Cold Father William.For phrases that actually contain the native word, I do a reversal. Gold Blooded Snake. Gold Front. And I also try to think about near-matches. Cold Miner's Daughter. And sometimes just the word itself plays into an existing phrase in an unexpected way: Cold Reader.
The most important thing though is that when you generate lists, you write down the possibilities. Keep a list. I write possible names in my cell phone when I'm not at my computer, for example. You also have to have the courage to write a lot stupid names before you find the one you're looking for. Create volumes; sift for the one you like.
I'm sensing something...the spirits are telling me that your character, The Cold Reader, has mind and cold powers!
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
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Actually, according to Arcanaville in another post the greatest xp/endurange and xp/point of damage is to be gained off of +2 bosses. Any lower or higher and the damage/xp is reduced. Lieuts and minions are far behind.|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
I recall it being without bosses. The xp/time on them is a lot less than LTs I thought.
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Now that's not the same as xp/time for certain, but with minimum AoEs, you want bosses on, and you don't want them higher than +2. With extensive AoEs for ideal farming, obviously this doesn't hold any value and you want bosses off.
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Yep, GREAT names.
Tex I just wanted to make sure you are aware of the simply hilarious Professor Peter Schickele - P. D. Q. Bach albums, specifically "Oedipus Tex and Other Choral Calamities".
Prof. Schickele is as creative and funny as Victor Borge and a national treasure in my opinion.
Jak
Oh, and +2 x8 - no boss, if you can, FTW in my experience.
Thanks for the ideas, Tried +0/x8 without bosses was a bit easy with my MM. When I log on tonight Ill try the +2/X2 Boss as my Pets can take down a single target pretty fast and I have enough CC to keep em locked most of the time.
Also to those saying "depends on the AT" and such if you read my OP I say the build in question is a Demon/DM MM.
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Not true. The level shift does NOT actually level you up. You get the exact same rewards as a 50, or as a common Alpha-slotted 50, or a Very Rare Alpha-Slotted 50. Don't believe me? Go test it out.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
NOTE: With level shift you can't get +4x8 any more, and the sweet spots move up by the amount of your level shift unless all you're looking for are purple drops, in which case -2x8 becomes very VERY fast.
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@Roderick
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but what they are saying is still true. it not only depends on AT, but your specific build. what powers you specifically took on your demon/dark as well as how they are slotted as well as what level you are (limits power choices). for example, your kill speed will matter whether you took tar patch and how many recharges/how much global recharge you have. your playstyle will matter too - do you let your pets go nuts on defensive or aggressive or do you micro-manage them or just have them attack a single enemy at a time (worked great on my necro/poison for example).|
Originally Posted by Jakarr
Thanks for the ideas, Tried +0/x8 without bosses was a bit easy with my MM. When I log on tonight Ill try the +2/X2 Boss as my Pets can take down a single target pretty fast and I have enough CC to keep em locked most of the time.
Also to those saying "depends on the AT" and such if you read my OP I say the build in question is a Demon/DM MM. |
at most, we can say about the maximum (whether with a very specific build you can either hit a soft limit or a hard limit of +4/x8/bosses), and maybe a minimum given the most usually took powers, with average slotting and not sucking in terms of playstyle. its really up to you to figure out what you can handle and best speed for you.
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lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
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I have to agree, if you are really interested in getting an accurate answer you should use Herostats. Just measure yourself in the exact same mission at different settings. That would give you a better answer than all our impressions and opinions.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Run Herostats. My scrapper will run at a different efficiency than your MM.
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I would do a practice run first because you can expect to do better the second and third times through than you will the first.
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I believe Mauk2 is referring to relative level difference to your effective level 51 with the Tier 3 or 4 slotted.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Not true. The level shift does NOT actually level you up. You get the exact same rewards as a 50, or as a common Alpha-slotted 50, or a Very Rare Alpha-Slotted 50. Don't believe me? Go test it out.
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If you go to the Fateweaver and set yourself to -1/x8, the spawned mobs will be level 49, -2 to your effective level 51.
If I am leading a team (which isn't my favorite thing to do since I zone slower than others), I just go by a couple of rules of thumb.
If the team is absolutely steam rolling, waxing things with the very first volley, difficulty goes up and so does spawn count. Obviously if the AoE can kill say 10, it can kill 20 minions. If I am a 50 doing hero tips, setting it on +3 will make it all purple all the time for supersidekicked teammates, and that will seriously crimp their effectiveness.
If a teammate is getting defeated each and every group despite good tactics and team play, then I say it's time to dial it back.
Ideally, you don't want to grind, you want to be able to snatch teammates from the jaws of defeat, but an occasional oops isn't the end of the world.
For the mastermind soloist, the type of mastermind matters a lot. A poison secondary mastermind can easily handle +3/X1 solo. The other variant scale 0 X 8 for a poison mastermind will give you more trouble.
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IMHO, I think +1x8 gives a good xp over time ratio for leveling, but can be AT dependent.|
Originally Posted by Jakarr
What is the best +/X for gaining xp solo. While yes I know +4/8 or as much as you can handle.
Build in question is a Demon/DM MM around 28, I do -1/x8 very well but I do run into snags here and there but they are few and far. Questioning is would I gain better xp doing +1/x6? +4/x2? Etc etc. |
Here's what you can do to test yourself.
1) Look in your paper for a steal something mission.
2) Pick the mission and set your difficulty to +0x8 ( or whatever you want )
3) Write down your XP.
4) At the mission door, write down the current time.
5) Enter and kill everything, but leave the glowie alone.
6) After all the kills, write down the time and your new XP.
7) Calculate your XP per minute. For example, old xp = 10000, new xp = 20000, and time in mission is 12 mins, so xp / min is (20000 - 10000) / 12 = 833 xp / min.
8) Don't click the glowie and exit the mission. Change your diff to +1x8.
9) Reset the mission and go to step (4).
I think you will find that +4x8 will give you the worst xp per minute since mobs take much longer to kill, but the xp rewarded doesn't scale by 4. Ie, if a minion gives 100 xp and takes 20 secs to kill at +0, it doesn't give 400 xp at +4. Instead, it gives something like 130 xp but takes 60 secs to kill.
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So, purple drops, as in purple recipes? Forgive my ignorance, but how exactly would, for example, my 50(+1) widow get a larger chance for purple drops on -2/x8? Wouldn't that make the level effectively 49 and not 50? I understand that the more mobs the higher a percentage of possible drops per mission, but the level thing confuzzles me.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
There is no one answer.
If you are shopping for purples only, -1x8, no bosses. VERY FAST RUNS only. If you want to shake and bake all your drops, 0x8. (I find this to be the very best.) If you want to max your prestige/inf/exp per killtime, +2x8. You can then craft drops, too. If you want to max your prestige/inf/exp per killrun, +4x8. NOTE: With level shift you can't get +4x8 any more, and the sweet spots move up by the amount of your level shift unless all you're looking for are purple drops, in which case -2x8 becomes very VERY fast. Hope that clarifies things. |
I have not been able to find a guide or a chart for this yet but was wondering.....
What is the best +/X for gaining xp solo. While yes I know +4/8 or as much as you can handle.
Build in question is a Demon/DM MM around 28, I do -1/x8 very well but I do run into snags here and there but they are few and far. Questioning is would I gain better xp doing +1/x6? +4/x2? Etc etc. A Guide or a Chart for xp gained vs the Diff would be great but personal exp imo is almost as good. Thanks in Advance