Enough of the solo/group warfare: We need more power proliferation!

Actually, I think it might be more helpful to the solo defender if you just gave them Choking Cloud, but call it Noxious Gas Cloud.

One of Spine's many secondary effects is -Recharge. Since a large part of Fury is generated from foes attacking you, slowing their attacks slows your Fury generation.

Still, Dark Armor has Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear, both of which halt attacks entirely. So IMO there's zero reason not to allow Spines, Ice Melee and Ice Armor.

EDIT: Not to mention all the melee sets with stuns, holds and knockback, all of which also slow/stop incoming attacks, particularly those that are AoE (Hand Clap (stun), Footstomp (knockdown), Fault (both), etc).

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

I wrote a long review of the numbers in the Brute forum semi-recently. The overall conclusion was: not really. There isn't enough -Recharge in any of the melee sets for this to be a serious concern. So even if Dark Armor and Electric Armors didn't exist, Ice Armor and Spines really shouldn't be an issue.

And now you know why I keep rerolling my 50s

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I'll stick to the ATs I play and have some off-hand idea of powersets and design for. I'll also probably be listing everything I want to see, not necessarily everything I want to see AT ONCE.

Scrappers: Axe and Mace, Super Strength, Energy Melee and Energy Aura, Ice Melee and Ice Aura.

Axe and Mace are obvious choices and they seem to go together. They have the potential of challenging Broadsword, but that still has defence buffs on its side, as well as a pretty decent defence debuff, I'm finding.

Super Strength is something I've been waiting for for a long time, but I realise Rage would be a problem with Scrappers' higher self damage buff mod and melee damage mod. Not sure what can be done about it, though I wouldn't be too upset at seeing just a regular Build Up in the Scrapper version.

Energy/Energy is something I've wanted to see for some time, and I'm not sure what the problem is. Sure, Energy Aura is a bit on the weak side, but it should be workable, plus it might be a good time to tighten it up a bit. Energy Melee seems like a fairly average set with some decent but slow Burst damage and no real unusual kinks.

Ice/Ice just seems like a natural choice, even with the bulky ice armour toggles. For Scrappers, I'm really nor sure there's anything which could be problematic.

Brutes: Broadsword, Spines, Regeneration, Ice Melee and Ice Armour.

Broadsword is fairly obvious. It's a slightly lighter set than Axe and Mace, but it has buffs and debuffs and greater recharge speed.

Spines I'm not sure has enough -recharge to really matter for Fury, and it looks like a decent fit for a Brute thematically.

Ice/Ice was problematic enough to be pulled out of Beta (I had an Ice/Ice Brute for a while back then), so clearly that's not a straightforward decision, but I don't know. There has to be SOMETHING that could be done. Maybe replacing -recharge components with -damage with the pretence that your enemies are so cold they can't hit as hard? The theme is too good to pass up.

Stalkers: Ice Melee and Ice Armour, Invulnerability, Axe and Mace, Fiery Melee and Fiery Aura.

Ice/Ice is obvious. Decent melee set with some blades and some blunt force attacks, with the possibility of an Ice Assassin's Blade or some kind of Sub Zero style insta-freeze + shatter, and the defence set is appropriate, potentially allowing the ability to cover yourself with refracting ice and hide that way. The combo also has quite a bit of debilitating support, which is right up a Stalker's alley. Icicles might be a problem, but I could see that being sacrificed for Hide.

Invulnerability may seem like an odd choice, but it's about as odd as Regeneration, in that you can "hide" independent of your actual powers. Beyond that, a Stalker is just hard to kill if and when you can spot him. Not sure if it might not be too weak without Invincibility, however, which might have to be swapped for Hide as it's a taunt aura.

Fiery Melee and Fiery Aura may seem like absurd options (Assassin's INFERNO?) but it's no more or less absurd than covering yourself in flashing, crackling, obvious electricity as an Electric/Electric Stalker, and I don't see anything within the sets themselves that could be a problem.

Axe and Mace are things I really want to see. Having a killer with an axe pop up behind you in a locked room he had no way to get into is the staple of horror movies the world over, and I'm pretty sure a mace hit to the back of the head of an unsuspecting person would be fairly lethal, so why not?

Masterminds... I really don't know enough about Support sets to suggest, and there are no summon sets anywhere else to proliferate to them.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Scrapyarder Summoning.

Scrapyarder Foremen already have most of a summon set - attacks based around Super Strength and bottom-tier summons. Just need to add two more ranks (and we have Demolitionists for one of those ranks, probably the "Boss" pet; need some sort of passive buffer for the Lieutenant rank) and a pet-support power (too bad Gang War already exists, because that effect would probably be perfect.)

As mentioned by Sam, this is going to take some work. Given that scrappers get would get a +100% damage boost instead of the +80% for tankers and brutes, and couple this with their higher damage scalar, it would put them a bit over the top. Then you have the other issue with Super Strength, the set is dependent on rage to properly work. If you check out the damage values for the attacks, they are generally a bit lower than for comparable sets, so rage is essentially factored in.

Thus it would take a whole lot of adjustment to make SS compatible with scrappers.

This is another one which isn't terribly likely to happen. If you take a scrapper and give him every SR power slotted up, they get to around 30% defense to all positions coupled with 95% defense debuff resistance.

Now keep in mind that a scrapper only gets 75% of the defensive values of a tanker. Thus if we adjust SR for a tanker they will be running around with 40% position defense to all without any pool powers. Add in combat jumping with one defense SO and you are sitting at 43% defense to all. That's near softcap with no effort and you're almost totally resistant to defense debuff. That's pretty damned durable. I can't see that happening.

The new Fury renders this argument invalid.

Please go to the Brute forum and read up on why -Recharge will not affect Fury.

The numbers were ran, Super Strength ported as is, wasn't the top set in damage (I believe it was #3), and even if did hit #1 spot, I don't see why that would be so much of an issue, especially with it being all Smashing damage.

Not to mention a damage class...doing damage?! Who would of thought?

Top in single or AOE damage? If you're citing Billz damage tables thingy that's focused on single target damage, not AOE.

The AOE Damage potential would be the issue here.

Can you point me to this analysis?

Yes, of course. Balance be damned, I want my 'I Win' button.

Interesting since one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Proliferation is about ATs. Blasters and Defenders still don't share all sets. Blasters and Defenders are not the same AT. People who want to play Blasters may not wish to play a support character like a Defender.

Illusion wouldn't underperform as a SCRAPPER primary!

Where do you folks get your crazy ideas. Illusion doms would likely be overpowered.

It was just Single Target, yes. But I doubt the AOE would be so much more IF NOT LESS than Electric (with 4 AOE powers) or Spines (4 AOE powers)...all of which get just as much added AOE powers if they take a Secondary with an AOE damage power.

Every 10 seconds...300 damage...sound about right? How about 350?



Let's see...over 60 seconds with 96.52% Recharge/Damage, and assuming my math is right (which I could be screwing up somewhere, but I don't see where)...

2062.86 (going with 350 for Foot Stomp)
2357.56 (going with 400 for Foot Stomp)

1186.88 (Spine Burst) + 811.6 (Quills...assuming a tick every 1.5 seconds) = 1998.48 Throw in Ripper and Throw Spines, easily surpasses Footstomp.

393.43 (Lightning Rod) + 1736.20 (Thunder Strike) = 2129.63 ... Just surpassing Footstomp in AOE DPS in 60 seconds time at 350 Damage. This isn't including the AOE of Jacob's ladder which equals 2989.83 damage over that 60 seconds. And it STILL has time to hit Chain Induction during that 60 seconds.

That's hitting JL 14 times for a total of 25 seconds of animation time. LR once for 2.772 seconds of animation time. Thunderstrike 6 times for 20.5 seconds of animation time. And you can fit in 9 Chain Inductions (or we can just say that time was used for positioning JL, which still equal more AOE damage than Footstomp, with just JL.

Admittedly, the number of targets able to be hit is another factor, but they could easily lower Footstomp to less targets for scrappers, and I'd try to factor the number of targets hit by the AOEs, if I knew the max targets per AOE.

o.O Isn't that "I Win" button called Dark Melee/Shield Scrapper?

This is a tricky one. Poison works ok as an MM secondary but it's usefulness for Defenders, Corruptors or Controllers set is questionable. Even assuming that Noxious Gas was changed to not only work on Henchmen the set as a whole really comes across as a nerfed version of Radiation Emission.

I can definitely see wanting Poison for thematic reasons but I think it would need major changes to make it a useful set to ATs that have access to Radiation Emission.

Power customization post-dated power proliferation. So power proliferation comes first. Bases aren't broken. PvP is broken from the player's perspective, but it offers rewards, has multiple means of engaging it it and they all mechanically work.

Base raids were abandoned.

Power proliferation is easy, quick and has a high return on the time invested. It's a win, win.

Run the numbers of Integration/Instant Healing with the Brute HP modifier.

It'd be too high for balance.