For Crying out Loud FIX GRAVITY !!!!!!
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-01-19 15:11 in Suggestions and Ideas
agree 100%... propel for sure... pulling crap out of thin air is silly... really really silly...
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
I happen to like gravity. Yes, even Dimension Shift. Yes, I do use it. And no, I don't think Wormhole's all that complicated. However:
- Yes, Propel needs to be faster. I actually skipped it on my Grav/Kin because, early on, by the time I'd USED it on a team, the target was already dead a good 90% of the time. That said, I *like* throwing buicks at people.
- Wormhole could be a bit quicker, as well.
- And it's been mentioned previously, for Dimension Shift (and black hole) to make it more obvious that the target's phased. Put some sort of barrier so the target can't run off while phased, put some status indicator on them, etc. I'm usually fine with being able to tell, but I can see the problem for some.
(As far as snipes, the only ones that need fixing are stalkers. 8 seconds? Really?)
Here's what I would like them to do with Dimension Shift (and Black Hole too), change it from a Target AoE to a Location targeted 'pet' (like Quicksand or Volcanic Gasses) that pulses a short duration PBAoE Enemy phase, AND a PBAoE ALLY phase, and allow for the PvP mechanics for phaseing to work in PvE as well if they don't already (phased targets can attack other phased targets). The pulses would have to be set to ignore phase in order to keep mobs from phasing in and out as the power ticks, which we know they can do already cause Hamidon ignores phase.
This keeps from breaking the Cottage rule (the primary purpose of the power is unchanged ( it's still an AoE phase power)) but it removes one of the biggest annoyances of phase powers (having to wait till they expire to kill the phased mobs) by allowing you to enter/exit the phase shift field and then attack the phased mobs.
You could change the name to Dimensional Rift to match the new functionality of the power. (Dimension Shift is more of an action, where Dimensional Rift is more of a Thing.) The name Black Hole still works great though.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I have a gravity troller and she does just fine. Was one of my best soloers and the only one of my characters to solo AV's (PRE-IO's)
I don't see whats wrong with the set outside of propel and dimensional shift.
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For a Controller I'm inclined to agree with this, Grav isn't that bad really. Sorting Propel (make it a very narrow cone and improve the animation time) and Dimension shift out, and maybe increasing the AOE of Wormhole to closer to other sets AOEs and it's done.|
Originally Posted by Toony
I have a gravity troller and she does just fine. Was one of my best soloers and the only one of my characters to solo AV's (PRE-IO's)
I don't see whats wrong with the set outside of propel and dimensional shift. |
On a Domi though it really needs more. More secondary / soft control built in somewhere, like Ice has. Doesn't need to be -recharge but it does need something additional added in some way.
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Excellent suggestion!!!|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Here's what I would like them to do with Dimension Shift (and Black Hole too), change it from a Target AoE to a Location targeted 'pet' (like Quicksand or Volcanic Gasses) that pulses a short duration PBAoE Enemy phase, AND a PBAoE ALLY phase, and allow for the PvP mechanics for phaseing to work in PvE as well if they don't already (phased targets can attack other phased targets). The pulses would have to be set to ignore phase in order to keep mobs from phasing in and out as the power ticks, which we know they can do already cause Hamidon ignores phase.
This keeps from breaking the Cottage rule (the primary purpose of the power is unchanged ( it's still an AoE phase power)) but it removes one of the biggest annoyances of phase powers (having to wait till they expire to kill the phased mobs) by allowing you to enter/exit the phase shift field and then attack the phased mobs. You could change the name to Dimensional Rift to match the new functionality of the power. (Dimension Shift is more of an action, where Dimensional Rift is more of a Thing.) The name Black Hole still works great though. |
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
For a Controller I'm inclined to agree with this, Grav isn't that bad really. Sorting Propel (make it a very narrow cone and improve the animation time) and Dimension shift out, and maybe increasing the AOE of Wormhole to closer to other sets AOEs and it's done.
On a Domi though it really needs more. More secondary / soft control built in somewhere, like Ice has. Doesn't need to be -recharge but it does need something additional added in some way. |
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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I call shenanigans.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
My level 78 Grav/Energy dom...
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Basic math.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I call shenanigans.
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| (deleted once at 29, recreated and currently 49} |
I really like Gravity. I am surprised by the hate it has gotten lately.
I do not use Dimensional Shift (or have it) and Propel needs shorter animation for sure, but overall I still like the set. I don't think Wormhole is complicated--sorry I just don't see it.
I think a few minor tweaks could help this set, but I don't see the set as "broken."
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Airhammer: check out this post from F.Grubb: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...1&postcount=11
It hasn't been the only post made on Gravity, but I believe the other Red-Name posts were made in Beta forums that are now closed. Actually I'm sure it was in a beta thread since I had a post detailing the differences between gravity and the other sets and it's not in the live forums. When Going Rogue closed in and no Gravity Changes were in the patch notes, I believe F.Grubb outright stated that no consensus had been reached internally on what to do about Gravity, and rather than doing something merely for the sake of doing something, any changes to Gravity would be held off till the development teams could agree on any particular sets of changes.
There have been statements made that upping the damage on gravity wasn't in the cards for the set. Changes to propels animation timings weren't likely either.
Changing dimension shift also runs afoul of the Cottage Rule. Anything done to Dimension Shift requires that it retains the Intangibility effect. However, that doesn't mean that Dimension Shift has to be changed. One of the suggestions made in the past was that Dimension Shift be used as a counter to enemy special effects, or be given the inherent power of various temporary weapons against various enemies. E.G. for the Dr. Khan and Cuda Task Forces Dimension Shift could be granted the special effect of the Dimensional Grounding Ray. For STF Dimensional Shift could be granted the special effect of Disabling a Tower Link to Recluse.
Wormhole is open to more changes as it has both Stun and Teleport effects. One of Gravity's weaknesses is it's poor alpha-strike control. It's one of the only power sets that doesn't have an instant mass mob effect such as Stun or Sleep. One of Wormhole's largest issues is that the Stun effect is only applied after the Teleport effect, which gives enemies time to turn and alpha-strike the player while activating wormhole. The developers seemed to be receptive to the idea of applying the stun first and working out changes to teleportation methods later. Some suggested changes in the past included adding knock-around effect protection to Crushing Field, which would make it easier for grav controllers to contain wormholed enemies when needed.
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I don't think Gravity needs a damage boost really, it already has good single target damage, and other than Fire or Plant no control set really gets notable AoE damage. But no animation shortening for Propel is really a downer. 3.5s is horrendously long for any animation.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
There have been statements made that upping the damage on gravity wasn't in the cards for the set. Changes to propels animation timings weren't likely either.
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EDIT: Ok, I thought of 1 damage change I want to see. Lift currently does only scale 0.8damage for Controllers where it's direct analog Levitate has always dealt scale 1.32. I'll never understand why when they changed Lift for Dominators they didn't change it for Controllers too. (I understand that Dominators are a damage AT and Controllers are not, but a 0.52scale damage buff to one power isn't going to change that, and would be a decent little bone to throw us.)
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Changing dimension shift also runs afoul of the Cottage Rule. Anything done to Dimension Shift requires that it retains the Intangibility effect. However, that doesn't mean that Dimension Shift has to be changed. One of the suggestions made in the past was that Dimension Shift be used as a counter to enemy special effects, or be given the inherent power of various temporary weapons against various enemies. E.G. for the Dr. Khan and Cuda Task Forces Dimension Shift could be granted the special effect of the Dimensional Grounding Ray. For STF Dimensional Shift could be granted the special effect of Disabling a Tower Link to Recluse.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Wormhole is open to more changes as it has both Stun and Teleport effects. One of Gravity's weaknesses is it's poor alpha-strike control. It's one of the only power sets that doesn't have an instant mass mob effect such as Stun or Sleep. One of Wormhole's largest issues is that the Stun effect is only applied after the Teleport effect, which gives enemies time to turn and alpha-strike the player while activating wormhole. The developers seemed to be receptive to the idea of applying the stun first and working out changes to teleportation methods later. Some suggested changes in the past included adding knock-around effect protection to Crushing Field, which would make it easier for grav controllers to contain wormholed enemies when needed.
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People sometimes/often choose Crushing Field specifically BECAUSE it doesn't apply -kb. For going on 7 years we've been able to pair CF with powers like Freezing Rain/Sleet or Oil Slick Arrow for a very reliable knockdown patch (somethign which helps certain sets overcome gravity's horrible lack of soft control. I'm very much opposed to changing that synergy now.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I want to make it clear.. I dont HATE the set.. I just would like it to get better and there have been improvements talks about for YEARS and we havent seen any... My fear is that its been on the backburner and its gonna stay there..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Gravity seems to be one of the reasons my brother eventually quit the game, because:
"I've never had any character in any game that felt so outright powerful as Tejou." (Grav/Kin/Earth)
and
"After that, nothing else in CoH would be near as satisfying."
His main reason: Wormhole, which he felt was ridiculously powerful
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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I have a grav/storm, and I like him....but.......|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Gravity seems to be one of the reasons my brother eventually quit the game, because:
"I've never had any character in any game that felt so outright powerful as Tejou." (Grav/Kin/Earth) and "After that, nothing else in CoH would be near as satisfying." |
Really?
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He might have been a really cool and powerful toon, but to think nothing would match that seems like a huge overstatement.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
Gravity seems to be one of the reasons my brother eventually quit the game, because:
"I've never had any character in any game that felt so outright powerful as Tejou." (Grav/Kin/Earth) and "After that, nothing else in CoH would be near as satisfying." His main reason: Wormhole, which he felt was ridiculously powerful |
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
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to be fair, that was my unstated response too|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I have a grav/storm, and I like him....but.......
Really? |
but that was his stated reason
I just gave it as a notice that Grav probably isn't as bad as the OP thinks
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Oh I agree here. It's one of my favorite sets conceptually and visually... except that it's highly lackluster performance compared to all my other controllers/dominators means my Gravity characters tend to stall out in the teens or 20s.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I want to make it clear.. I dont HATE the set.. I just would like it to get better and there have been improvements talks about for YEARS and we havent seen any... My fear is that its been on the backburner and its gonna stay there..
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I've tried Grav/FF, Grav/Rad, Grav/Kin, Grav/Emp, Grav/Sonic, Grav/Energy Assault and Grav/Electric.
Compared to gravity, Every other control set (except possibly Ice, don't have much experience with Ice) is considerably better at control from a much earlier level.
It really needs a decent bit of TLC.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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o.O But that's what you're doing when you create black holes!
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Originally Posted by Gr33n
agree 100%... propel for sure... pulling crap out of thin air is silly... really really silly...
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I love Gravity to and think its a good set. My Grav/Storm/Earth namesake is one of my best toons. But if I was Dev for a day I would tweek the set by:
1) Speed up the animation of Propel
2) Boost the damage in Lift
3) Apply the Stun in Wormhole before Teleport and widen its AoE radius (Im looking at you big spacious Praetorian Lab maps!)
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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.....I think I like this idea.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Here's what I would like them to do with Dimension Shift (and Black Hole too), change it from a Target AoE to a Location targeted 'pet' (like Quicksand or Volcanic Gasses) that pulses a short duration PBAoE Enemy phase, AND a PBAoE ALLY phase, and allow for the PvP mechanics for phaseing to work in PvE as well if they don't already (phased targets can attack other phased targets). The pulses would have to be set to ignore phase in order to keep mobs from phasing in and out as the power ticks, which we know they can do already cause Hamidon ignores phase.
This keeps from breaking the Cottage rule (the primary purpose of the power is unchanged ( it's still an AoE phase power)) but it removes one of the biggest annoyances of phase powers (having to wait till they expire to kill the phased mobs) by allowing you to enter/exit the phase shift field and then attack the phased mobs. You could change the name to Dimensional Rift to match the new functionality of the power. (Dimension Shift is more of an action, where Dimensional Rift is more of a Thing.) The name Black Hole still works great though. |
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
I really want to like Gravity Control...I've yet to manage a character past level 20...
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Because why would you want to throw a ho-hum ball of kinetics when you could throw a FORKLIFT?|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
WHy doesnt Propel just look like a Mini Singularity that shoots out of your hand ????
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Agreed that a faster animation would be nice, but really, Propel is half the fun of the set. My first 50 is a grav/EA dom and one of the most fun characters I've ever played; she gave me a great love of the Gravity set.
Also, disagreed on Wormhole being too complicated, but applying the stun at the beginning rather than the end of the animation would be a huge improvement.
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Originally Posted by flashrains
Because why would you want to throw a ho-hum ball of kinetics when you could throw a FORKLIFT?
Agreed that a faster animation would be nice, but really, Propel is half the fun of the set. My first 50 is a grav/EA dom and one of the most fun characters I've ever played; she gave me a great love of the Gravity set. Also, disagreed on Wormhole being too complicated, but applying the stun at the beginning rather than the end of the animation would be a huge improvement. |
The whole making objects and throwing them around is very fun at first. Then waiting forever for an image to be generated and then the attack hitting the target AFTER its been defeated on teams gets ANNOYING after it happens for the 30th time.
Now as I said I have no issue using Wormhole as I am used to it.. However I have seen iut used badly time and time and time and time again. No other stun works this way..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I just made a gravity power charater and I agree, the power animations are lame. Two of my abilities freeze the person and the only real difference (Besides damage) is that one makes the enemy levitate. wooo..... Propel grabs crap that may not necessarily be in the area your in, I mean come on, I pulled out a wooden bench in a science lab. And a rusty globe in a cave. You should pull it out of the wall, like a rock or a piece of metal.
I usually dont make rant posts.. but with all the end game content being worked on and Going Rogue and Incarnates I have a concern that stuff that has been underperforming and languishing for a long time is being forgottem.
This set has sucked for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. It needs to be fixed. Seriously.. There has been talk about doing something changing animations etc etc for a while and it hasnt gotten a sniff...
There are some things it does well...
Gravity Distortion. Crush. GDF.... fine... SIngularity.. IMO the BEST pet in the game.
What does Gravity do wrong.
Wormhole is overly complicated, challenging to use ( although I think I use it pretty well), often annoys teamates and the stun being applied AFTER they come out of the wormhole often leads to getting shot up before anything happens.
Dimension Shift I believe is skipped by almost every Grav Controller I have seen. While situational, most skip it and most teams find it incredibly annoying.
Lack of quality soft control and debuffs that are separate from the controls. Most of the better sets have a good mix of soft and hard control. Gravity is all hard and therefore everything is on a long timer. . Earth has things like Quicksand and Earthquake, Ice has Artic Air. Gravity suffers in this respec and slow movement isnt enough.. it should have something like sizeable -recharge...
Propel... OMG.. one of the WORST powers I have ever used.. Long activation.. Long Animation.. Solo.. fine.. In teams the power usually huts the target AFTER its beendefeated because it too soooooooo long to generate that stupid image.. and fling it.. It was cool like 7 years ago to show what you could do.. but it really needs help.
Im watching Graviton on Avengers Earth Mightest Heroes and while I realize thats a cartoon and a great many things dont translate well...
Im like where is the anti gravity field.. Like an Ice slick area affect that makes foes Float UP....
Maybe I could have gotten some kind of defensive field that makes foes move slower as they approach me and reduces their recharge rate..
WHy doesnt Propel just look like a Mini Singularity that shoots out of your hand ????
Please dont overlook this set.. It needs a serious fix...
And while you are at it... FIX SNIPES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-