Soloability and End Game

Wow, it's amazing how determined to prove me wrong you all are, when all I've done is state an opinion based upon my personal experience. Answer this one question, if any of you dare: what is wrong with the disparity between teaming and soloing (in reference to the Incarnate system only) being less than it is now? How will it hurt anyone?

I will NOT sit here and justify my right to provide feedback. I simply won't. The very fact you all expect me to is ludicrous to me. Feedback itself is a data point, whether you all choose to believe it or not. Get enough users saying the same thing and you have a trend that might just bear looking into. So answer my question and return to the topic at hand, please. The last several posts are a derail of the thread's real topic, after all.

[QUOTE=McCharraigin;3428857]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero The simple truth is that the Alpha is fully solo-able it'll just take longer to do solo. Just like anything else. Though If you find your completely incapable of running a few missions with a team. I worry about you. I mean why even play a MMO. I used to almost exclusively solo. Didn't like teaming. I got over it. I think it happened whin I got a toon to 50 in a month teaming where as my original that I worked on for several years is still st around 30. If you have some specific resin why you don't like to solo I'd love to here it. Hello Hydrofoil_Zero. I unlocked the alpha slot on all my 50s so I know that part is indeed fully solo-able, the filling of it though is another story. I took one of my level 50s on Tip missions this morning. I cranked up both the difficulty and number of villains When I finished, I had lots of recipes, SOs, large inspirations, and made a fair amount of influence....what was missing was shards. I got not one. And I have not received shards on any of my unlocked 50s that I have played...so I am not truly convinced about it being possible to fill one solo. Completely not capable of teaming? Reason for not teaming? I am capable, just not coordinated. Solo, I do well, but when teamed my deficiencies are obvious to me... crashing into walls which results in my losing the team, sometimes not being able to lock on to my target, I am a slow typist which got me accused of being stuck up. Oh, I forgot one of your questions...I play this game because my better half dragged me kicking and screaming into it. When when I settled down to a mild wimper I found that beating up bad guys is serious stress therapy, and this game is something He and I can do together...didn't work out that way, we are often on different servers, but we have lively discussions Lisa.

After the initial ark you should automatically get 1 shard. If you didn't thin you forgot to talk to Mender Ramiel after the ark? It wont realy unlock until you do.

I don't consider myself an introvert, but I do agree with much of what the OP has said. Nor do I consider myself a poor player (I have some builds that can solo missions set for 8), but I don't think I could solo many AVs (ridiculous regen, every one of them IMO).

I've played since launch and there are still some TF's I've never done. But except for some badges and the odd accolade, not doing them all is not much of a penalty.

I will say I just loathe seeing a quest giver say "you must have x friends"..... ugh. I have well over 50 characters and have grouped up many, many times. I'd say my good grouping experiences outweigh my bad ones, but not by a landslide. But I hate, HATE having to.

City of Heroes has always been my most beloved MMO, precisely for the reason that I can obtain top tier loot solo. I don't know of one (and I mean, not one) other MMO that allows for this. Bless CoH for having this.

Now, I don't know for sure the req's of the Incarnate system, but if some highly desirable items can now only be achieved through grouping then this is a serious concern for me. Whether some like it or not, it represents a shift in what has always be CoH's unique strength.

To Arcanaville: I understand what you're saying about drop rates. And the difficulties you list when it comes to adjusting them is exactly why I am proposing the Devs do something other than tie Incarnate progression to random chance.

For example: Imagine a solo only mission similar to how the moral choice missions in Praetoria are set up. This mission is repeatable, but only once per 20 hours and rewards a static number of shards upon completion. It could be made a kill all or have some other mechanic to make stealthing it a non-viable option.

I'm aware that a solution such as that would have its own problems, not the least of which is that people who run TF's would also run the solo mission to get shards even faster. And you know what? I don't really care. Let them. At this point I am so thoroughly frustrated and just generally put out with the Incarnate system that I honestly don't know why I'm even bothering to post. The idea that it will most likely be the majority of our content updates from now on just makes it worse. I feel like the game is evolving into something totally different and that its new form is just simply not a place I want to be. I'm desperately arguing these points in the hopes that if enough of us do the Devs will listen and figure something out to make us all happy.

I'm well aware there are reasons why the Devs have set the drop rates they have. And again, my personal opinion is they are leaving out soloists by doing it the way it has been done. Or at the very least, they are trying to force the soloist to abandon their playstyle and team. Perhaps this is intentional, perhaps not, but until one of them actually tells us we won't know that for sure.

I guess the point I'm trying to make by all that rambling is that there are other ways to meter out progression than random chance. I'm really hoping the Devs consider something different as an option for future updates.

I've thought about it and I think I know the crux of the problem. Well at least one of problems.


I don't have any problem with purple drops being super rare. If I don't one during play session it's no big deal. If I get one, it's a (very) nice bonus.

If we are to think of this incarnate system as a "51" level, then getting a shard component isn't "a nice bonus" it's a necessity. Now not getting them is frustrating experience.

An analogy: What if they just added a 51st level. And the experience you needed was progressively higher (that is, what it normally be, or "expect" it to be).

However, when you defeated a mob you don't necessarily get experience. There is a 1/1000 chance you will get experience. However if you do get experience from a mob it will 1001 times as much as you would have normally gotten.

Mathmatically, it works out the same in the long run (or even slightly better). However, it will feel frustratring for many, many players who might not make any progress during a mission.

Not add to this that a more deterministic method is available, but only for certain playstyles. Defenders, controllers, corruptors and dominators will get experience like normal. Seem unfair? Why? It's not like you can't A) play one of those ATs or B) get experience through the random system which is mathmatically the same.

I don't want the drop rates to increase for shard pieces (though that would be nice), I want some type of non-random method for people who prefer solo play.

I don't agree with the premise that teams - aside from the mechanic of getting components from Task Forces - should have any advantage in shard generation over soloers. There are plenty of other incentives to team - the ease of play, the increased success rate, and for those so inclined, the companionship of others - that "increased shard generation" does not need to be one of them.

I'm not suggesting removing the selection of a component from Task Force completion, but the inherent mechanic that makes shard drops for individuals on teams versus solo needs to be re-examined (I'd suggest adjusting rates such that soloers get current non-TF team rates, rather than lowering current team rates.)

First of all, I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not smart. I tried to have my wife explain to me my “lowest common denominator” mistake as explained by Arcanaville. She tried to explain his post to me. Many times. Failure. FYI “Stop being stupid” (which my wife lets slip occasionally) doesn’t work on me cuz just saying that doesn’t suddenly make me smarter. Believe me or don’t about my intellect, that’s up to you. My only high point in schooling was vocabulary, and that wasn’t in English.

That being said, I’ve said this in other threads, but I’ve never truly understood what makes computer game discussions so different. If you don’t like a certain pie in a restaurant, you don’t like the pie. You don’t have to know about baking, crusts, filling, what shortening was used, how many eggs, initial cooking time, simmering times, cooling times etc… (yeah, I love desserts, baking and eating them, I’m French, comes with the territory).

All the customers need to say is “I don’t like this.” If it’s only a few customers? No big deal. Can’t please everyone. If it’s a lot, it’s up to the CHEF i.e. me in the old days to ask his clientele through interviews, slips at the table, mailouts, etc… to find out what to change. I did that, personally, both as a pastry chef and a sous-chef. Disclaimer = might be different in America.

I’ve also said this anecdote before, but there are step nieces and nephews of mine that still won’t try my sugar pie because they think it’s “healthy”, and don’t want to risk a healthy dessert (it’s brown sugar based, heavy amounts, 6 egg yolks, and goes downhill from there, health wise, trust me, your arteries are hardening just hearing about it.) They don’t do a statistical analysis. They have no idea about the process. They just don’t like it, having never had a mouthful, I’ve been married 14 years, and they STILL they won’t try it as adults. Reality doesn’t matter, they won’t try it. If they tried it and didn’t like it, that’d be one thing. But they never even had a mouthful. No diabetes, just “I don’t wanna”.

(Being French, this insulted me badly enough, I’ll hold it against them for the rest of their lives, and, well, only my wife, my best friend, and any inlaws that come visit gets pie or any dessert from me from now on and only when they visit. All the praises in the world won’t get me to cook for “the family” again, despite how well the others say I cook. Hey, I’m an over the top drama king that’s very emotional. As I said… French.)

Back to games. Computer gamers, as customers, for me anyways, don’t need to be logical, or provide information. Anecdotal does not necessarily mean wrong. I will admit, I sometimes make the mistake of trying to discuss with logical rational people that know computers and numbers, and all that, and I really shouldn’t, due respect, because I neither understand what people want me to do to “prove” my assertions, nor do I have any intention to. If that makes me lazy, so be it. But, on any game I’ve ever been in, for computer games, it’s been “show me the numbers” as opposed to baking, or cars, or desks, or anything I’ve ever bought… ever. When I buy personally, it either feels right, or doesn’t.

What I *AM* hoping, is throwing my snowball down the hill, and when I complain about high end solo, or casual gaming, or whatever, that I generate a bunch of “Me too” “Hey, Me too!” “Hey me too” posts, causing that snowball to avalanche, and, despite the team based / TF framework, difficulty, drop rate being exactly ON PAR mathematically, that, financially, to listen to their playerbase and therefore make money, the devs have to change the game mathematically wrong, but financially right.

Or, said yet another way, if this thread had caused 1,000+ solo-ists, and challenge haters to post here overnight, that even though the devs may be design wise correct, if they want to keep their subscribers happy, they have to “do the game wrong” or they stay “right” but go out of business.

Now, the above didn’t happen, so the snowball stayed… a snowball… so I’m the 1-2 customer that doesn’t like the pie, and everyone else does, so “sucks to be me”, and I’m ok with that. But, I was hoping for a lot of “Me too. I love solo too” to inundate the threads and force the devs to mostly take that direction. Didn’t happen, so that’s that. But I won’t apologise for throwing the snowball.

I just honestly hope there’s still room for me as I’m basically a button masher who’se proudest mathematical moment in CoH, is to take the recipes that gives me the most Damage Resistance, despite likely missing a few “You didn’t take THAT?” Recipe or Power. As I said, I don’t have taunt, heh.

I will admit I can be confusing since, through normal reflex, I do try and explain myself to groupers, and challenge seekers, and, though not to exclude you, I should be directing my comments to others like myself. Challenge seekers and myself want different things out of the game, and I’m sorry if I pointed at your enjoyment and said “Hey, no. That’s wrong.” I really meant it’s just “unfun for me”, which no-one else is responsible for nor can fix. I just hope there’s still fun stuff for me in CoH in my future is all, hopefully, not at your expense. And I hope the devs can give you your fun, hopefully not at mine.

I’ll leave you with this parting question. It’s a moral, or understanding your point, kind of question. It’s not meant to be realistic. If this thread, had been made about if Incarnate should be pure solo, instead of group / TF based, and 1,000+ posts said “solo please.” on day 1 of the post i.e. overwhelming solo support. The devs check the current system. There’s no flaw in it as a group-preferred system. They post again that, mathematically, logically, it SHOULD be TF > PUG non-TF group > solo, and, again, 1,000+ posts per day complaining… SHOULD the devs do the “wrong” thing and “cave” (if I have the expression right) and turn this MMO Incarnate part solo based? Or not, no matter the cost? Or, said another way, is reality > perception still applicable in a business, where “the customer is always right” because, even if fully wrong as per prior RL examples such as the phone support, they’ll take their wrong self and wrong wallets elsewhere. I’m not saying this is the case here, but are you saying being right + stats > anecdote + impression, period, the end? Or no? I hope I made my question clear. Not trying to be snarky, I really want to try and understand your viewpoint, thanks.