Fix Praetoria


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Only few years ago every maps in game required a certain level to get there. So getting level 20 and unlocking primal is not big deal. Actually its very very easy job.


Prunejuice is warriors drink.

 

Posted

[Deleted]


 

Posted

I think the biggest thing that makes the starting content annoying is doing the same missions, no matter how well-made they are, over and over and over and over...

After running around all over the place doing hunts and random generic door missions ten times in Paragon, it gets old.

After needing to run the far end of Mercy to beat up Snakes and Contaminated ten times in the Rogue Isles, it gets old.

After trudging through the Underground through a hundred ghouls to find a few PPD who immediately go rampaging into extra groups as soon as you rescue them... ten times of that in Praetoria, and it gets old.

I think Praetoria has some awesome writing that sets the bar higher than it's ever been in this game, and for the most part I love Praetoria, but I'm really getting sick of Praetor White's arc. More variety in the starting arcs would be nice in Praetoria as well as the Rogue Isles, and as for Paragon's starting arcs, they have the 'variety', they just need to make them good.


Proud member of Everyday Heroes (Infinity Heroes), Dream Stalkers (Infinity Villains), Devil Never Cry (Freedom Heroes), Enclave of EVIL (Pinnacle Villains), Phobia (Infinity Villains), Les Enfant Terribles (Freedom Villains), Gravy Train (Virtue Heroes), and more!

Full, detailed character list

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonPen View Post
I'd be a lot happier in Praetoria if NPCs weren't all homicidal maniacs. I'll be running to complete an important mission for the Resistance and see some of my comrades at police gunpoint in the sewers, so I'll stop to rescue them... at which point they draw their guns and join the police in shooting at me, forcing me to beat the hell out of them. Eventually I win the "hated and feared by the Resistance" badge all the while I'm, like, stealing neutron bombs for them.
Ugh, this...there REALLY needs to be some mechanic devised to stop that. Please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonPen View Post
I'd be a lot happier in Praetoria if NPCs weren't all homicidal maniacs. I'll be running to complete an important mission for the Resistance and see some of my comrades at police gunpoint in the sewers, so I'll stop to rescue them... at which point they draw their guns and join the police in shooting at me, forcing me to beat the hell out of them. Eventually I win the "hated and feared by the Resistance" badge all the while I'm, like, stealing neutron bombs for them.
you know, i'm with you on that, its kind of a quirk of the system, but it shows some cracks with the storyline. it also happens with the cabal in coh proper but its a situation i think arises from game mechanics. mob spawns are in a certain size of enemies, these spawns count both factions as hostile to you, my idea would be for your ranks or specific badges to suppress hostility from one of the groups while perhaps making the spawns competitively large so that they could be challenges to both sides. its kind of jsutified in that the ppd hates the powerd division and a lot of res members are crusaders and pretty much violent anarchists (and later that the cabal just haven't gotten the email that you just helped them so please quit shooting at you) but i agree, i hope that this eventually get some sort of look at, just for immersion sake.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad View Post
I'm avoiding praetoria any more, I got my dominator out of that 20 level sentence jail. i don't want to go back, it's hard to level the slow way.

until the issue release that gives us higher level praetoria zones for higher level characters to get contacts and missions, praetoria is a long job.

when it was opened up to higher levels to walk-in, I did go back but I had a sinking feeling and this thought in the back of my head: "god I hope they don't lock my character in here again by some accident"

so.. let make it easier on praetorians so it's not so much of a jail in the meantime.

how about double XP for praetorians? just until higher level zones are released.
I'm calling Poe. This is just to absurd.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonPen View Post
I'd be a lot happier in Praetoria if NPCs weren't all homicidal maniacs. I'll be running to complete an important mission for the Resistance and see some of my comrades at police gunpoint in the sewers, so I'll stop to rescue them... at which point they draw their guns and join the police in shooting at me, forcing me to beat the hell out of them. Eventually I win the "hated and feared by the Resistance" badge all the while I'm, like, stealing neutron bombs for them.
This however is something that I whole heartedly agree with. It was acceptable (barely) for my spider to get shot at by every other Arachnos goon he passed by. But in Praetoria it really annoys me.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
You've been here for 6 months. Trust me when I say: You have NO IDEA AT ALL what "leveling the slow way" really means.
And trust *me* when I say: Knowing how slow the "slow way" was before doesn't make the current "slow way" any less tedious.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

I will say one thing...

When I hear complaints about Praetorian content, a majority of the time, the person was either leveling a Dom or a Controller (like the OP). Biggest complaint I tend to hear? Destroyers.

For being a 1-20 group, they have way too much control resistance/protection. No other group is even close in the low levels. Only Vahz have any protection, and that's just increased Immob protection. Stack two, and they will stop. The Destroyers are almost on par with Romans... a 35+ group.

If anything needs fixing in Praetoria, it's the Destroyers.

I've taken an MM all the way through the content, a Scrapper through half, and a Corrupter through a quarter. I haven't really had any issues thus far. I am scared for the Elec Dom I'm planning though.


"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
And trust *me* when I say: Knowing how slow the "slow way" was before doesn't make the current "slow way" any less tedious.
There's a slow way now?

I am stopping xp every other mission in Praetoria in order not to outlevel the next contact. I have found that if you solo, and NOT kill everything in the missions you can just get from one contact to the next without outleveling anything. As soon as you hop on a team or do a mission that is not yours you are blazing past everything.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
There's a slow way now?

I am stopping xp every other mission in Praetoria in order not to outlevel the next contact. I have found that if you solo, and NOT kill everything in the missions you can just get from one contact to the next without outleveling anything. As soon as you hop on a team or do a mission that is not yours you are blazing past everything.
That's my experience as well. Name me any other game where the Devs have given the players the ability to actually pause their leveling progression.


 

Posted

Doesn't EQ2 have the feature?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
There's a slow way now?
I find soloing to be a tedious jog. Granted, it used to be an unbearably tedious slow-motion crawl. Of course, even back then you could end up outlevelling contacts, which makes doing so a poor measuring stick for pace.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
I find soloing to be a tedious jog. Granted, it used to be an unbearably tedious slow-motion crawl. Of course, even back then you could end up outlevelling contacts, which makes doing so a poor measuring stick for pace.
Then don't solo. Problem solved ...
No, seriously. Even on a medium sized team you reach level 20 in 3-4 gaming sesions (2-3 hours at a time I'd say). I don't see how that is slow?


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
Then don't solo. Problem solved ...
Walking around a hole in your floor doesn't fix the hole in your floor. Problem avoided, but not solved.

Mind you, I typically prefer to be on a full team blazing through missions at breakneck speed to avoid the problem, but in Praetoria I find myself more interested in the missions and thus compelled to solo. Which in turn means that I can only stand to play my Praetoians in very small bursts.

Quote:
No, seriously. Even on a medium sized team you reach level 20 in 3-4 gaming sesions (2-3 hours at a time I'd say). I don't see how that is slow?
Double XP on an efficient 8-man team is what I call a decent pace. Not even fast, mind you - just decent.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Walking around a hole in your floor doesn't fix the hole in your floor. Problem avoided, but not solved.
Well, my floor is perfectly smooth and hole-less.

Quote:
Mind you, I typically prefer to be on a full team blazing through missions at breakneck speed to avoid the problem, but in Praetoria I find myself more interested in the missions and thus compelled to solo. Which in turn means that I can only stand to play my Praetoians in very small bursts.
I'm not really getting what exactly it is that you want. You're kinda sending out mixed signals here. You level to slow, but still outlevel everything? How does that work?

Quote:
Double XP on an efficient 8-man team is what I call a decent pace. Not even fast, mind you - just decent.
Well, then the problem is with you and your unrealistic expectations and not the game really.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
I'm not really getting what exactly it is that you want. You're kinda sending out mixed signals here. You level to slow, but still outlevel everything? How does that work?
I don't have a problem with outlevelling things. I solo in Praetoria not to avoid outlevelling things, but to have time to appreciate all the messages, dialogues, and clues. Teams don't tend to allow one to 'stop and smell the roses' as it were. Praetoria has some quality work in it, but the quality compels me to solo which makes for tedious progression. Thus I can't play my Praetorians for very long. And thus I can sympathise with the OP's sentiment.

As for what I want: to be able to use all ATs blue-side without having to suffer through 20+ tortuous levels of yellow- or red-.

Quote:
Well, then the problem is with you and your unrealistic expectations and not the game really.
Given that my expectations are easily achievable, they're hardly unrealistic, just improbable under the current regime. The problem lies with accepted MMORPG conventions of levelling speed. Thankfully, this game has at least pushed the boundaries of such conventions a bit. Other MMORPGs lose me the moment levelling becomes an outright chore.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
I expect them to keep the "leave praetoria at 20" component, but have you return at 40-50 for a new zone level of content.
Boo! BOO!! BOO!!! To the devs if that's what they do.

As much as I enjoyed the Praetorian journey with my Loyalist Corruptor, as much as I felt that I was along for the ride while my character grew and developed right before my eyes with every choice she made, for good or ill, it was all laid waste when she went to Paragon City at level 20.

All that build up... all those revelations... all those opportunities for communication and cooperation, foiled over and over again by blind Resistance hatred and unremitting violence against the people of Praetoria...

and then...

when at last the incontrovertible truth was revealed...

RESOLUTION DENIED! Go do something else for 20 or 30 levels.

Never again.

At least not in any fun way.


 

Posted

I think Praetoria needs a fix in regards to enemy difficulty. I'm sorry but the ghouls, the PPD, the resistance, the Destroyers, the Seers, they're all WAY more difficult than the enemies you face at low level in Paragon or the isles with the exception of one or two outlier groups.

The Vahz are generally seen as being the hardest low level group in Paragon. But basically every enemy group in Praetoria seems Vahz hard to me. Not to mention most 1-10 enemies get around 1, maybe 2 attacks in Paragon and around that in the isles. Where as PPD and such have numerous attacks. Clockwork are especially painful (the clockwork bosses to me are far worse than any level 50 groups boss when you compare level ranges. Those things knock my squishies out in about two hits.)

I also feel Praetoria needs some equivilant method of obtaining temp mayhem/safeguard powers as well as a low level taskforce (perhaps a seperate one for both Resistance and Loyalist?)


 

Posted

I opened this topic expecting a serious post about fixing what *really* needs to be fixed in Praetoria. I was disappointed. What needs to be fixed is the annoying graphical glitches. But, that's a different topic, right? >.>

That said:

I'm torn in my feelings for Praetoria. Most of which has already been said. I've only rolled a handful of Praetorians, and I'm already tired of fetching flowers for the 20th time, and spending 5 minutes in a 10 minute mission walking up each individual stair so the hostage (or three) can make it up the stairs without getting lost.

On the other hand, once you get past Praetor White's arc (such as it is), I really do like the content. I would rather run 1-20 doing Praetorian content than I would the low level (IE: The origin contacts blueside. Something or other Davies I think it is for Tech?) Primal content. However, here's where my main mixed feelings come in, and I'm honestly not sure what could be done about it. The missions "feel" harder to solo. Which is fine with me, I like it when things are challenging, although sometimes it is a bit much. (Which is why I run TF's at +4. It's challenging, and thus more fun for me) But at the same time... It's somehow... Not fun. I really don't know how to explain it, to be honest. I like the content *story* wise, it's just... Not as fun to solo in Praetoria as it is blueside (I'll just leave redside out of this...), which defeats the purpose of going Praetorian for me, because as someone else mentioned, when you're on a team of 8, you can't "stop and smell the roses" (which you just picked for Cleopatra for the 300th time, of course) and read the mission text and everything else that makes Praetoria... Better.

I find that the only way I can really have fun in Praetoria is to run on a team of 3, 4 at the most, with SG friends who don't mind waiting while I read all the text. Otherwise, you'll stop to read text, and have people complaining 5 seconds later that you're taking too long to set the next mission, blah blah blah.

So, as soon as they fix the graphical glitches... They can work on fixing an issue I have that I don't know how to explain, and thus cannot explain how to fix. Right?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Double XP on an efficient 8-man team is what I call a decent pace. Not even fast, mind you - just decent.
You're actually serious, aren't you?

So, if it takes you more than one weekend to hit the level cap in the game, it's too slow?

Because I've seen many teams do exactly that on double XP weekends.

I'm in agreement with the person who said your unreasonable expectations of the game are the problem. I'm honestly confused as to why you're still here, you claim to like the game, but I have NEVER seen a post from you that wasn't purely or at least containing a complaint about how horrible something about the game is.

It really seems like you actually hate the game, and only play it so you have something to complain about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Praetoria is fine. Biggest change I would like to see is allowing all characters to travel freely between Paragon and Rogue Isles, regardless of alignment. Sure villains probably won't get a lot of missions in Paragon, but there could be new pvp options available that way. Heroes and Villains battling in the streets would be interesting. Add a pvp flagging system, so players can't be attacked in their home city unless their flag is on.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Electric View Post
Praetoria is fine. Biggest change I would like to see is allowing all characters to travel freely between Paragon and Rogue Isles, regardless of alignment. Sure villains probably won't get a lot of missions in Paragon, but there could be new pvp options available that way. Heroes and Villains battling in the streets would be interesting. Add a pvp flagging system, so players can't be attacked in their home city unless their flag is on.
And a great big steaming HELL NO to open world PvP in any form in CoH.

I don't want to have a bunch of jacktards following me around pestering me to turn my PvP flag on so them and their 6 buddies who are standing out of sight can gank me under the Atlas statue.

I like the fact that I can choose when I want to PvP without trying to remember if I left my flag on or not if I don't want to.

Besides, since PvP works differently than PvE, it would be a NIGHTMARE to code it, because I think it is a property of being in a PvP zone rather than an actual change to your powers.

Traveling to Paragon/Rogue Isles at any alignment, sure. But don't add open world PvP to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I've said it before but this is what happens when people spend too much time in the AE getting PL'd while door sitting. Praetoria is fine as it is, and as others have said it's fer too easy to outlevel the content there.

/unsigned
Agreed