1 def = 2 res...Really?


Airhammer

 

Posted

My current planned build is pretty awesome end-wise. 2 perf. shifter procs fire off constantly. Stuck in a lot of recovery and the Cardiac Alpha and the end issues are melting away.

This is what I'm working with if anyone is interested:

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Toughness, this is your answer for easily hitting 45% s/l. Down side is that it makes an already end heavy armor even more end heavy.
Toughness? WEAVE will add more defense. Tough adds resistances on the way. And yes, both at once will add more of an endurance drain, but they'll add to survivability.


"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorado View Post
Toughness? WEAVE will add more defense. Tough adds resistances on the way. And yes, both at once will add more of an endurance drain, but they'll add to survivability.
Since your a /da I was assuming you meant resistance instead of defense. Especially since the only defense /da has baked in is from the stealth power. Quite the chore to get 40% with 3.75% being your baseline.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Since his toon is /da he should be able to hit about 35% smashing/lethal resists with just Dark Embrace and three SO's. But 45% resist isn't a "magic number", or one worth writing home about, IMHO.

45% DEFENSE, on the other hand, would be. (And wouldn't the baked-in defense from Cloak of Darkness help in achieving that?)

Regardless, the posted build [which I didn't notice a couple of hours ago, either] seems to be talking about (and exceeding) 45% defense, and it's looking pretty good from here -- especially if "the end issues are melting away"!


"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
If anything, this thread is convincing me to go the distance with my DA's quest to hit 45% S/L. Right now I have about 35% and the same to E/NE and I already have a hard time getting killed.
I'm a huge fan of the partial soft cap.......anything over about 32 to cover with a small purple. Easy to keep inspirations around these days.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
To support what others have said, in the end, the best way to stay alive is layered protection - two or more of defense, resistance and healing and/or the equivalent debuffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
And damage output. "The best defense is a good offense" works fairly well in COH/V. My Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker, for example, only has to live longer than the spawn, and she can make that a pretty short time indeed. Then Healing Flames fixes everything before the next spawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
Offense works well to supplement other mitigation methods, but offense alone doesn't do you a lot of good.

Just ask general population solo blasters from a couple years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
I did say 'general population'. Remember, we know for a fact that a couple years ago, blasters were THE worst performing solo core AT blueside.

If offense as mitigation was reliable, this wouldn't be the case.
I think you've taken what I said too seriously. As the quote train above should make clear, I was adding damage to the list of layered defenses, where it very much does help keep you alive, a fact any Fire/Fire Tanker can demonstrate. I'm not claiming damage alone will let you tank Lord Recluse. But then, I guess if the game offered ENOUGH damage, you could just one-shot him and go home. It's really only because the most severe threats tend to be built to survive enormous amounts of damage, and the game won't let you wield that much damage, that it is inadequate.

Your argument is a bit like if I came into a layered mitigation discussion, focused on just the passive regen from Health, and aggressively kept pointing out it won't keep you alive. It won't -- by itself.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Since your a /da I was assuming you meant resistance instead of defense. Especially since the only defense /da has baked in is from the stealth power. Quite the chore to get 40% with 3.75% being your baseline.
Depends on the secondary i have my spines/da sitting at 42% s/l if I wanted i could get to 45% with the pvp IO =3%

MA can soft cap s/l pretty darn easy even with that 3.5% from COD


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Depends on the secondary i have my spines/da sitting at 42% s/l if I wanted i could get to 45% with the pvp IO =3%

MA can soft cap s/l pretty darn easy even with that 3.5% from COD
Kinetic Combats put soft-capping s/l within the reach of almost anything with enough melee attacks. The theoretical rule of five cap on KC's s/l set bonuses is an astounding 18.75% defense and you don't even need to slot full sets to get it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Kinetic Combats put soft-capping s/l within the reach of almost anything with enough melee attacks. The theoretical rule of five cap on KC's s/l set bonuses is an astounding 18.75% defense and you don't even need to slot full sets to get it.
Lots of my HVM money has been going toward throwing KCs on every character I own with melee attacks lately. Not just the DEF, but you get a pretty good HP boost too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
I think you've taken what I said too seriously. As the quote train above should make clear, I was adding damage to the list of layered defenses, where it very much does help keep you alive, a fact any Fire/Fire Tanker can demonstrate. I'm not claiming damage alone will let you tank Lord Recluse. But then, I guess if the game offered ENOUGH damage, you could just one-shot him and go home. It's really only because the most severe threats tend to be built to survive enormous amounts of damage, and the game won't let you wield that much damage, that it is inadequate.

Your argument is a bit like if I came into a layered mitigation discussion, focused on just the passive regen from Health, and aggressively kept pointing out it won't keep you alive. It won't -- by itself.
My response to you was intended to be a supplemental statement, not an argument, my apologies if it came across differently. I only brought it up then because I do see a lot of people interpreting things like that as 'Well, killing them fast should be better than thinking up ways to not die, then'

My response to airhammer was due to his contesting my statement, not aimed at you specifically.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
Offense works well to supplement other mitigation methods, but offense alone doesn't do you a lot of good.

Just ask general population solo blasters from a couple years ago.
The biggest part of the problem in those days was that blasters were encouraged to get as close to death as possible to leverage the old defiance. Blasters, to this day, are still based on the philosophy that killing it quickly negates damage.


 

Posted

The old defiance was made on the belief that blasters would have survived that nasty fight where they had a sliver of health if only they had more damage. And in part, it was true. The problem was that Statesman encouraged "stupid blaster tricks" such as falling from the height cap to get max defiance. Or asking the empathy defender not to heal them unless the health bar was blinking red. Really stupid ideas, and everyone who tried them merely died. The old defiance did help though. Just not as much as the current one does.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Personally, I loved the old defiance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Depends on the secondary i have my spines/da sitting at 42% s/l if I wanted i could get to 45% with the pvp IO =3%

MA can soft cap s/l pretty darn easy even with that 3.5% from COD
It's even easier for DA tanks. I just put together a DA/SS build for someone looking for a build soft-capped to S/L/E/NE. No PvP IOs required.

I think we'd see a lot more of these builds too, if Kin Combats weren't so expensive.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
My current planned build is pretty awesome end-wise. 2 perf. shifter procs fire off constantly. Stuck in a lot of recovery and the Cardiac Alpha and the end issues are melting away.

This is what I'm working with if anyone is interested:

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Moved some, replaced some... Lost some, gain some......
Got you S/L/E/N softcap with 12 KB prot and no PvP IOs

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Posted

question, I have been using the rule of thumb that 1def=2res=20 regen or HP, is that about right, and if not, what is the correct rule of thumb for regen?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beelzy View Post
question, I have been using the rule of thumb that 1def=2res=20 regen or HP, is that about right, and if not, what is the correct rule of thumb for regen?
"Get as much as you can" would be my guess. My DM/Regen scrapper has a regen rate of 2.33%, or 19.61 hit points per second. And that seems to be enough to be immortal against 2 even level average damage foes. 3 to 4 foes if I put reconstruction on auto fire. Not too much I can do to improve my standard regen rate anymore either. Already have Health, Fast Healing, and Integration 3 slotted with SO levels of enhancements. Can get the Body Mastery pool, but that's about it.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

There is no correct rule of the thumb like that for regen. The "mitigation" provided by Regen is constant whereas that from Def or Res is relative to incoming damage.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSorrow View Post
There is no correct rule of the thumb like that for regen. The "mitigation" provided by Regen is constant whereas that from Def or Res is relative to incoming damage.
This basically. High regen coupled with other sources of mitigation increases survivability enormously, but it doesn't function quite the same as defense and resistance.
Regeneration based survival usually has a rather binary nature: either the damage per second can't outpace your regen and you'll never be defeated, or you're defeated in seconds.

Like the old saying about the original Regeneration powerset used to go: "Being Regen Scrapper is a lot like snowboarding: you either look awesome or you're dead."


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
The old defiance was made on the belief that blasters would have survived that nasty fight where they had a sliver of health if only they had more damage. And in part, it was true. The problem was that Statesman encouraged "stupid blaster tricks" such as falling from the height cap to get max defiance. Or asking the empathy defender not to heal them unless the health bar was blinking red. Really stupid ideas, and everyone who tried them merely died. The old defiance did help though. Just not as much as the current one does.
The problem was actually that you really had to know what you were doing to fully leverage Defiance 1.0, and even if you did not flirt with death while using it that just meant you didn't benefit from it, which put you back to square one (I did fine with it, but I've been playing blasters since release, and blapping for most of those years. Also, I knew to keep as many oranges running as possible).

The biggest difference between D1 and D2 has nothing to do with the damage buff mechanics, or even that there is a damage buff at all, in my opinion. Its that you can shoot through mez on your tier 1/2 attacks (and tier 1 secondary). I believe that saves more blaster lives than anything else.

The thing about getting low is that even if you survive, its only good once. Unless you have an Emp following you around to reset you, you can't really get low often and see that damage buff, because you can't start the next fight in that condition and consistently expect to survive (again, unless you are a very experienced player that has insps on the twitchy finger).


One of the things I'm trying out in my experimental I19 build for my Energy/Energy is to go back to ranged blasting, take both bolt and blast (I respeced out of bolt years ago when I made my I9 build, because back then it sucked big time) and slot them both with Force Feedback procs (actually, I have them slotted in torrent and explosive blast also). That, plus a build with a lot of global speed, and I can almost just cycle bolt and blast constantly (bolt, blast, and torrent are almost a complete chain, and probably will be in the final build). When you can cycle bolt and blast almost continuously, mez becomes much less of a problem. It drops my defensive toggles, but hardly dents my offense, and with it my offensive (kb) mitigation.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Another example of what soft capped defense can do... Fighting the crystal titan without using ambrosia, and not getting insta-killed by it's special attack that requires ambrosia to survive. Really funny to see the entire team faceplanting but you, and them demanding to know why you didn't get killed. The one time I fought crystal titan in the trial, that happened. Everyone else was filling their entire tray with ambrosia, I was filling mine with respites, lucks, and catch breaths. Gave every ambrosia I got to the others. Didn't get hit once the entire crystal titan fight.

On the other hand, elude crashed JUST as the sucker died.
Eden was fixed few issues back. You cannot substitute ambrosia with lucks anymore.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordBlast View Post
Eden was fixed few issues back. You cannot substitute ambrosia with lucks anymore.
Yes you can, if you're lucky. Took my softcapped Fort through it a month at most ago, completely forgot about ambrosia during the final battle, and, despite being in melee range the entire time, never took a hit.