To-Hit Buff: Really How Much is Enough
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-22 02:54 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
What are you fighting?
Worst-case scenario (a +15 Paragon Protector that's just activated their godmode), I don't think you can get enough to-hit. I believe the limit to to-hit buffs is 175%, and between the Purple Patch debuffs and the godmode defense buffs, you'll need more than that to reach a 95% chance to hit.
Base to-hit is 75% remember. So assuming even level enemies, you 'need' no additional to-hit, and one SO worth of accuracy. If your powers have an accuracy of 1.1, your base chance to hit is 82.5%. At this point you 'need' the following:
1 SO worth of accuracy
or
+12.5 to-hit
If enemies have any defense, or are higher level then +3 you'll need more to-hit. If they use a to-hit debuff on you, you'll want a lot more to-hit.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Accuracy and tohit are different.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
In general, 1 Acc SO is sufficient accuracy.
If you fight over your level, you may want more. Usually no more that 2 Acc SOs.
from here, http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack...cs#Data_Tables you can see that 2 lvl 50 Acc IOs will get you to above 'regular' levels with +4 critters
In addition to Acc, you can get the Kismet enhancement that gives you +tohit.
Any +tohit is 'enough.'
Perhaps your friend lacks sufficient accuracy or is fighting critters with -tohit?
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*grumbles* Hate CoT ghosts/Spectral Daemon Lords, Tsoo Sorcerers, and storm shamans SOOOOOO much.
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Originally Posted by all_hell
Perhaps your friend lacks sufficient accuracy or is fighting critters with -tohit?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Where would that case occur, and why?
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Originally Posted by Katie V
What are you fighting?
Worst-case scenario (a +15 Paragon Protector that's just activated their godmode), I don't think you can get enough to-hit. I believe the limit to to-hit buffs is 175%, and between the Purple Patch debuffs and the godmode defense buffs, you'll need more than that to reach a 95% chance to hit. |
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Level 35 player (or team of them) going to Paragrin Island and attacking a level 50 paragon protector. As for why? Ya got me.
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Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
Where would that case occur, and why?
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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And at higher level the bosses that spam Elude: Longbow Wardens and Paragon Protectors. And there are also several AVs such as Captain Mako, Mynx, Positron, Citadel, etc (just to name a few) who also have defensive godmodes.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
*grumbles* Hate CoT ghosts/Spectral Daemon Lords, Tsoo Sorcerers, and storm shamans SOOOOOO much.
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And let's not forget Cimerorans and their Phalanx Fighting
Don't forget vengeance stacked nemesis.
To Hit is like Dakka, you always need more.
More seriously here's how much you need to get 95% chance to hit against enemies without defense buffs:
+0: 1 Acc SO
+1: Kismet IO and 1 Acc SO
+2: Kismet IO and 2 Acc SOs
+3: Kismet IO and 2 level 50 Acc IOs (i.e. you need 76% accuracy) or Kismet IO, Focused Accuracy and 1 level 50 Acc IO (actually need about 39%)
+4: Kismet IO, Focused Accuracy and 2 Acc SOs
Of course this completely ignores all the enemies with defense buffs or to hit debuffs (for example the IDF Robots in the new TFs have 15% defense).
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To be perfectly fair, the reason Orks need more dakka is because they can't shoot worth a damn in the first place. They use the 'spray & pray' strategy of long-ranged combat, but they have to pray really hard.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
To Hit is like Dakka, you always need more.
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Hell, if you dismantle an Ork firearm, you'd find that it is physically impossible for it to even shoot anything. The only reason their guns function on the minimal level they're at is because the Orks believe it should work, and therefore it does.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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And the moral of this? That Dakka is stronger then physics and mechanics combined.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
To be perfectly fair, the reason Orks need more dakka is because they can't shoot worth a damn in the first place. They use the 'spray & pray' strategy of long-ranged combat, but they have to pray really hard.
Hell, if you dismantle an Ork firearm, you'd find that it is physically impossible for it to even shoot anything. The only reason their guns function on the minimal level they're at is because the Orks believe it should work, and therefore it does. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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To make it even more interesting: it is believed that you will only have enough Dakka when the entire universe is a bunch of guns.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
To be perfectly fair, the reason Orks need more dakka is because they can't shoot worth a damn in the first place. They use the 'spray & pray' strategy of long-ranged combat, but they have to pray really hard.
Hell, if you dismantle an Ork firearm, you'd find that it is physically impossible for it to even shoot anything. The only reason their guns function on the minimal level they're at is because the Orks believe it should work, and therefore it does. |
But then you will likely only have enough ammo to fire once, and even then, fire are what?
Almost zen, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Originally Posted by SonicRemedy
I'll be honest, if I did the math I could prolly figure it out but how much to-hit is generally enough. I am helping a friend with his SS/WP character and I look at perma rage think to myself,... However, in practice he feels like hes missing a bit much.
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As other have said it depends on the circumstances. Have your friend open his combat attributes (Powers->Combat Attributes up on the top of the window he just opened.) Ask him to monitor some attributes like Last Chance To Hit, Damage Bonus, To-Hit Bonus, etc. (Right click on the attribute and pick "Monitor".)
These are super important to be aware of when fighting on a melee toon. When your To-Hit suddenly goes from 85% to 5%, you've just been debuffed. It's no good just swinging away, you're going to burn all your End and not hit anything. You have to figure out something else (Taunt and let ranged damage finish off the debuffer, Hold the debuffer, wait for the debuff to ware off, etc.).
This goes double for Rage, which has a crash. When your Damage bonus goes to -999% with Rage, stops swinging and wait the crash out.
OTOH if your To-Hit Bonus is fine but your Last Chance To Hit is hovering around 65%-85%, you probably could use some more accuracy in your build. Focused Accuracy and slotting will help that.
Ideally, you want a combination of to-hit and accuracy. Although if suffering from extreme debuffage, accuracy may be more useful then to-hit. It's rather hard to get enough to-hit to reliably hit through five force field generators, or 8 stacked nemesis vengeance. But heavy acc slotting will help you hit a tad more often.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
You can never have too much. My Widow has 101% ToHit (that is, +26%). She almost never gets deflected, but it still happens sometimes against enemies using Elude or stacking Vengeance. And I hate every second of it.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I just set Mids' base to-hit to 39% and make sure my attacks are at 95%.
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Talk about extreme overkill. What, do you expect to be fighting +10 enemies regularly?
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Originally Posted by Nicro
I just set Mids' base to-hit to 39% and make sure my attacks are at 95%.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Could be expecting to be soloing x8 CoT missions and inevitably coming up against spawns entirely composed of those dagnabbed ghosts of theirs.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Talk about extreme overkill. What, do you expect to be fighting +10 enemies regularly?
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Or doing what I was doing the other day for the heck of it: running around PI fighting +7/+8 Bosses. Unfortunately, I'm not set up with super-accuracy, so despite having Rage active I had to set up a steady IV drip of Yellow Insps in order to slowly whittle away their HPs.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Actually, 39% is base tohit agains +4s, so probably fighting them regularly.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Talk about extreme overkill. What, do you expect to be fighting +10 enemies regularly?
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SS/WP has access to the following to-hit buffs:
- Kismet 6% accuracy IO (actually 6% to hit)
- Rage
- Tactics
- Focused Accuracy
I'd just slot a Kismet and maybe drop a little to-hit enhancement in Rage if needed... that will get you 30-35% to hit with just a single Rage stack or over 60% if double stacked. With decent accuracy slotting that will hit just about anything short of Elude users, and nobody hits those well without something like Aim.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
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A player's stats are in the single digits when faced against +10 targets. |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Talk about extreme overkill. What, do you expect to be fighting +10 enemies regularly?
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Tohit, damage, mez duration, etc.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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It's not nearly that thought out. The new end game TFs put you up against level 54 enemies. I want to be able to maintain 95% to-hit against them. So I set Mids' base to-hit to match what it is in-game against +4s.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Could be expecting to be soloing x8 CoT missions and inevitably coming up against spawns entirely composed of those dagnabbed ghosts of theirs.
Or doing what I was doing the other day for the heck of it: running around PI fighting +7/+8 Bosses. Unfortunately, I'm not set up with super-accuracy, so despite having Rage active I had to set up a steady IV drip of Yellow Insps in order to slowly whittle away their HPs. |
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Neat, my widow has at least 110% hit rate against +4s.
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Originally Posted by Nicro
It's not nearly that thought out. The new end game TFs put you up against level 54 enemies. I want to be able to maintain 95% to-hit against them. So I set Mids' base to-hit to match what it is in-game against +4s.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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If you're debuffed to 5% tohit, in order to get back up to 95% hit chance you need +90% tohit. If you try to do the same with just accuracy, you'd need +1,900% accuracy.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Ideally, you want a combination of to-hit and accuracy. Although if suffering from extreme debuffage, accuracy may be more useful then to-hit. It's rather hard to get enough to-hit to reliably hit through five force field generators, or 8 stacked nemesis vengeance. But heavy acc slotting will help you hit a tad more often.
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If you split the middle and get some of both -- let's say +45% tohit* -- you'd still need +190% accuracy. Splitting in two on the other side -- +950% accuracy -- means you only need an additional +10% tohit. It's much easier to recover from tohit debuffs by adding tohit buffs. I believe the reverse would be true if you were suffering from accuracy debuffs, except there aren't any that exist. (Things would really suck if it did exist, because there's no means in the attack mechanics to prevent you from going into negative accuracy.)
Hitting a target with defense is essentially the same as being debuffed yourself. Consider the accuracy formula: Clamp[AccMods * Clamp[SelfTohit - TargetDefense]]. By the time your accuracy comes into play, the difference between your tohit and the target's defense is your tohit, as far as the equation is concerned.
* A Blaster using Vengeance slotted for 56% tohit still gets +40.95% tohit. Other ATs get even more benefit; Defender, Scrapper, Tanker, Brute, Stalker, Widow, and SoA all get +35% tohit from Vengeance without slotting.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I'll be honest, if I did the math I could prolly figure it out but how much to-hit is generally enough. I am helping a friend with his SS/WP character and I look at perma rage think to myself, "Awesome, seems good and now he can skip Focused Accuracy." However, in practice he feels like hes missing a bit much. So tell me, how much To-Hit do you feel is enough? I know that To-Hit is roughly point for on Defense so I would assume a base of 45% to-hit. Now, I' sure that this can very higher, and lower depending on how accuracy is slotted in powers. Whats your opinion on the deal?
Dreaded Wail hits things freakin' hard.. i like to hit things freakin' hard... so.. id go Wail... SAVE THE WAILS!!!! - Solar_Lunata