Either way I don't send snarky tells to somebody who blind invites me to a super group. I just put them on ignore instantly. Past experience has taught me that they will likely invite me again sometime in the next hour or next day because if they are blind inviting then they have usually forgotten who they have already sent tells to within that period of time.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
Quote:
That right there constitutes spamming, sending one character a tell does not constitute spamming, sending the same tell to multiple characters does.|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
[Tell] -->: Don't have to be a **** I send messages to lvls 1-10 about the SG
Oh and also, who here calls asking someone to join your SG threw a tell 'Spamming'? |
Here's a situation:
<eating dinner>
<phone rings>
Me: Hello?
BU&U: "Hi, this is Joe Schmoe with BU&U and we have some great new services th..."
Me: No thank you and I really don't have the time, I'm eating dinner."
BU&U "Well, I certainly und..."
Me: <click>
<phone rings>
Me: Hello?
Daily Rag: "Good evening, I'm calling you to offer you a great deal on the Daily Rag, for just...
ME: Don't want it, thanks.
Daily Rag: "Any particular reason why?"
Me: You comics section is only half a page.
Daily Rag: o.O?
Me: <click>
<phone rings>
See where I'm going?
While, each of them only called me once (today,) I can guaranty you that they called 30, 40, 100 more people. That is spamming. Oh and how I wish I had an ignore button on my phone.
Needless to say when I played on Champion more, I used to get so many blind SG tells/invites that I put in my search comment that "No, I don't want to join your SG, tells/blind SG invites will be /ignored."
Quote:
If that were true you wouldn't be spamming SG invites in the first place. The only thing keeping you from getting hit by the ban stick sooner is the simple fact that most people will ignore/1 star you rather than petition you. |
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
But you see I know the definition of spam.
|
Sooner or later tho you'll stumble across people who are willing to file petitions and a GM, after looking at the way you spam invites in rapid succession, will take some sort of action. Probably flagging your account and giving you a warning the first time, but if he sees you behaving like you said you did in your first post he may skip that and go to something more severe like a temp suspension.
Quote:
I personally think you should give people like me a second chance but that's just me |
Originally Posted by Mandu
Either way I don't send snarky tells to somebody who blind invites me to a super group. I just put them on ignore instantly. Past experience has taught me that they will likely invite me again sometime in the next hour or next day because if they are blind inviting then they have usually forgotten who they have already sent tells to within that period of time.
|
Quote:
I don't think you have read my posts. You see a tell isn't 'live'. Your not made to respond. There is no way you can be forced to respond.|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
That right there constitutes spamming, sending one character a tell does not constitute spamming, sending the same tell to multiple characters does.
Here's a situation: <eating dinner> <phone rings> Me: Hello? BU&U: "Hi, this is Joe Schmoe with BU&U and we have some great new services th..." Me: No thank you and I really don't have the time, I'm eating dinner." BU&U "Well, I certainly und..." Me: <click> <phone rings> Me: Hello? Daily Rag: "Good evening, I'm calling you to offer you a great deal on the Daily Rag, for just... ME: Don't want it, thanks. Daily Rag: "Any particular reason why?" Me: You comics section is only half a page. Daily Rag: o.O? Me: <click> <phone rings> See where I'm going? While, each of them only called me once (today,) I can guaranty you that they called 30, 40, 100 more people. That is spamming. Oh and how I wish I had an ignore button on my phone. Needless to say when I played on Champion more, I used to get so many blind SG tells/invites that I put in my search comment that "No, I don't want to join your SG, tells/blind SG invites will be /ignored." |
Here's a Scenario
[Tell] Hey need a SG?
*10 minutes later no response*
[Thought to Self] Well guess he didn't need one.
Bye the way if you got a search comment which states "No SGs Plz" I don't try.
Quote:
Ha! Yeah right! I want you to find me a quote from the Terms of Agreement that says you can't communicate on a MMO, nice try buddy.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
If that were true you wouldn't be spamming SG invites in the first place. The only thing keeping you from getting hit by the ban stick sooner is the simple fact that most people will ignore/1 star you rather than petition you.
Sooner or later tho you'll stumble across people who are willing to file petitions and a GM, after looking at the way you spam invites in rapid succession, will take some sort of action. Probably flagging your account and giving you a warning the first time, but if he sees you behaving like you said you did in your first post he may skip that and go to something more severe like a temp suspension. |
Quote:
No no, sir you are mistaken. Your recent threads are only composed of definitions of spam. I'm stating why it is not spam. Thats different then myself posting the following:|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
You're still arguing over the definition, and not the intent. Spamming is a verb, and when people say that you're spamming, they generally mean you're rapidly sending out useless information. (Repeating the same thing in chat twenty five times.) However, it can also mean "the act of sending out spam."
Spam is a noun, and in this case is being used to refer to "an unsolicited and undesired communication." (It's also a potted meat product, sort of like a giant hot dog in a can, but that's not the definition we're dealing with here.) In this game, a spam is any tell, invite, or email that a person didn't want to receive. When you send out a wave of blind invites to characters you've never met, you are spamming them. In the same way that an email junkmailer is spamming people when they send out a thousand spam mails, even though each target only sees one of those. And part of the reason you have a hard time keeping your SG "full" is the way you're inviting people. You try to recruit anything with a pulse. Many of those people that do join will look around, decide they don't like what they see, and quit. You *will* have better results if you stick to people that you've actually met in-game. Really, WHY would you want to invite random people you've never met? |
SPAM - Processed Pig Meat
SPAM - Mass amount of junkmail
Heh, weird I did not see that in my past posts.
Quote:
Man I just can't pinpoint a definition of SPAM, maybe I need to look harder |
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
But you see I know the definition of spam. What is good about sending tells is that there is no need to delete them. There is no need to decline them. Nothing that takes effort has to be done, this is why I don't qualify a single tell to characters being Spam - undesired communication/low quality meat.
I have no problem keeping my SG "full". I keep it steady the way I'm running it now. I have usual squad of 8 people on and I like it that way. I invite more people to revitalize it just in case people stop playing that character for long stretches of time. Growth is the key to success here, and well lets just say were growing exponentially |
Anyways I'm off. Take care guys.
-HHM
Hi, Mike, you got an interesting thread started here! I think some replies might be a little at cross-purposes, though. Here is what is coming across to me:
-You sound like a fairly new player - not brand spankin' new, but not a vet, either (and if so, welcome!)
-You are full of enthusiasm and desire to get things rolling, meet new people, and put people together. (and if so, double great!)
-You are not the sort of person to hang back, and wait for fun to happen to you. You take the initiative and create fun and friendships. (TRIPLE great!)
You really sound like your heart and your intentions are all in the right place. I think I hear you saying a bit of "but wait... I really think I'm right here! This WORKS!" You sound like you have pulled together a lot of people, and I'm guessing they're newer players who might not have any real idea where to start to meet people, and get involved. I really do wish there were maybe something established to do exactly that, and if you are able to do it, that is fabulous! Seriously, God bless ya!
So I think you might not be quite understanding some of the responses that you've been getting, and it has nothing to do with what is - or isn't - spam. What people are reacting to is that in THIS game (maybe it's fine in other games) recruiting sight unseen is bad manners. Blind invites to sg's is just something Is Not Done. If you ARE doing it, then you are immediately suspect, and thought of as either a) a goof who doesn't know better (and who wants to join an sg by someone who doesn't know what they're doing?), or b) a jerk/user/creepy guy preying on newbies. This comes from personal experiences or word of mouth about people who are just looking for prestige for their sg's, and have used nice people, and treated them like meat. And that's how you come across, using your approach. Maybe not elsewhere. But here, yes.
The vast majority of people in this particular game are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet. Just amazing people! But they are not weak, spineless nice. Well, they are superheroes! But not only that, they are aware that they are the vast majority here, and just don't tolerate the jerks. You don't have to stop all the good stuff you're doing. Not at all! Just modify your approach in such a way that you don't come across badly.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
No no, sir you are mistaken. Your recent threads are only composed of definitions of spam. I'm stating why it is not spam. Thats different then myself posting the following:
SPAM - Processed Pig Meat SPAM - Mass amount of junkmail Heh, weird I did not see that in my past posts. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
Man I just can't pinpoint a definition of SPAM, maybe I need to look harder
|
Whatever. At this point it's clear you either aren't reading what people are telling you, or you're willfully ignoring it. Either way, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you.
Quote:
Yeah, I'm getting the impression based on both the OP and Mike's subsequent responses in this thread that:|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Whatever. At this point it's clear you either aren't reading what people are telling you, or you're willfully ignoring it. Either way, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you.
|
1: He doesn't handle criticism well.
2: He's not interested in any discussion or feedback on this subject
3: Despite the thread not going the way he seemed to expect, and replies being pretty much overwhelmingly critical of his SG recruiting methods, he has already made up his mind that he is right & anyone who feels differently is wrong or overly sensitive about 'spam'.
Oh well. To each their own.
Quote:
Yeah, I admit, I skimmed through your previous post back and forth "It is spam" " It isn't spam" was just frankly getting tedious. So I will point out a few key points of yours and respond:|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Wow. ADD much? You re-quote a message of mine you've already responded to without reading, and then quote one of your own messages.
Whatever. At this point it's clear you either aren't reading what people are telling you, or you're willfully ignoring it. Either way, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you. |
"In this game, a spam is any tell, invite, or email that a person didn't want to receive."-ShadowsBetween
Define it as you wish. I see no harm caused.
"When you send out a wave of blind invites to characters you've never met, you are spamming them." -ShadowsBetween
Don't send blind invites all I'm doing is sending tells.
"In the same way that an email junkmailer is spamming people when they send out a thousand spam mails, even though each target only sees one of those." -ShadowsBetween
Not really. I'm not trying to sell you some sort of faulty item. Nor am I trying to scam you. I'm just asking a question which can enhance your gaming experience positively. Sure on technicality you could call this 'spam' but everyone I've asked on my global channels say "As long as I don't get a random SG INVITE I'm cool with it"
"And part of the reason you have a hard time keeping your SG "full" is the way you're inviting people." -ShadowsBetween
When did I ever say I struggle keeping it "full"?
"You try to recruit anything with a pulse." -ShadowsBetween
Yeah... uh so, the more the merrier.
"Many of those people that do join will look around, decide they don't like what they see, and quit." -ShadowsBetween
I don't seem to see that happen, in fact I find most of members joining on other alternate characters
"You *will* have better results if you stick to people that you've actually met in-game."-ShadowsBetween
Yeah of course a friend you've met is a better recruit but these random people I meet and mingle with don't seem to work out all to bad in my opinion
"Really, WHY would you want to invite random people you've never met?"-ShadowsBetween
Why not? Plenty of my current global friends were once just random people I decided to 'spam' a single tell to regarding my SG.
Quote:
I guess I see your point on "treating them like meat" but most people I find don't seem to be offended when I herd them like cattle into my SG|
Originally Posted by _eeek_
Hi, Mike, you got an interesting thread started here! I think some replies might be a little at cross-purposes, though. Here is what is coming across to me:
-You sound like a fairly new player - not brand spankin' new, but not a vet, either (and if so, welcome!) -You are full of enthusiasm and desire to get things rolling, meet new people, and put people together. (and if so, double great!) -You are not the sort of person to hang back, and wait for fun to happen to you. You take the initiative and create fun and friendships. (TRIPLE great!) You really sound like your heart and your intentions are all in the right place. I think I hear you saying a bit of "but wait... I really think I'm right here! This WORKS!" You sound like you have pulled together a lot of people, and I'm guessing they're newer players who might not have any real idea where to start to meet people, and get involved. I really do wish there were maybe something established to do exactly that, and if you are able to do it, that is fabulous! Seriously, God bless ya! So I think you might not be quite understanding some of the responses that you've been getting, and it has nothing to do with what is - or isn't - spam. What people are reacting to is that in THIS game (maybe it's fine in other games) recruiting sight unseen is bad manners. Blind invites to sg's is just something Is Not Done. If you ARE doing it, then you are immediately suspect, and thought of as either a) a goof who doesn't know better (and who wants to join an sg by someone who doesn't know what they're doing?), or b) a jerk/user/creepy guy preying on newbies. This comes from personal experiences or word of mouth about people who are just looking for prestige for their sg's, and have used nice people, and treated them like meat. And that's how you come across, using your approach. Maybe not elsewhere. But here, yes. The vast majority of people in this particular game are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet. Just amazing people! But they are not weak, spineless nice. Well, they are superheroes! But not only that, they are aware that they are the vast majority here, and just don't tolerate the jerks. You don't have to stop all the good stuff you're doing. Not at all! Just modify your approach in such a way that you don't come across badly. |
Lol, on a serious note I guess I could come out with a better recruitment statement.Although I don't like the sound of you giving me the 'benefit of the doubt' because you think I'm a noobie. I played for like a year and half on my old account then started up again later and have been playing for a little over 9 months.
I'm glad your not after me with pitch forks and torches like some
Quote:
1: Nah just not a fan of sarcasm.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Yeah, I'm getting the impression based on both the OP and Mike's subsequent responses in this thread that:
1: He doesn't handle criticism well. 2: He's not interested in any discussion or feedback on this subject 3: Despite the thread not going the way he seemed to expect, and replies being pretty much overwhelmingly critical of his SG recruiting methods, he has already made up his mind that he is right & anyone who feels differently is wrong or overly sensitive about 'spam'. Oh well. To each their own. |
2:This is good, I encourage some critique.
3:Yeah obviously it the OP changed from me saying "This guy was kind of rude" to "SG Recruiting is Spam" And yes I do feel some of you seem a bit over sensitive on this subject.
Quote:
It's usually:|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
I never realized how horrific people find this style of SG recruiting. I guess I may change my tactics. It just seems hard to keep an active fueled SG when your only inviting people you have to end up knowing on a personal level. I suppose it's better hearing it this way then more super antagonizing sarcastic remarks.
|
1. Sorta spammish.
2. A sign of a bad SG.
Why would I want to join an SG that has no requirements at all for entrance? Groups that actively recruit like this typically have a bad reputation if they have one at all.
Quote:
I wouldn't be too concerned. I've seen similar attitudes expressed by other players over the years and they either learn to change the way they express themselves in the game or they end up like the occasional poster that claims "The servers are dead!" because their attitude has alienated them from everyone on whatever low pop server they make their home. They can't seem to understand just how close knit the player communities are especially on the low pop servers.
|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Yeah, I'm getting the impression based on both the OP and Mike's subsequent responses in this thread that:
1: He doesn't handle criticism well. 2: He's not interested in any discussion or feedback on this subject 3: Despite the thread not going the way he seemed to expect, and replies being pretty much overwhelmingly critical of his SG recruiting methods, he has already made up his mind that he is right & anyone who feels differently is wrong or overly sensitive about 'spam'. Oh well. To each their own. |
Quote:
Going by your attitude in this thread, I wouldn't even give you a first chance.
|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
I personally think you should give people like me a second chance but that's just me
|
Quote:
Mmhm. And it's not an extreme thing to do. In fact, it may be the NICEST thing to do for everyone involved. I'm looking for quality, and Hot Head Mike's looking for quantity. And that's fine. Mike and I don't have anything to offer each other, and we'll never have to have an uncomfortable conversation about it.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
Either way I don't send snarky tells to somebody who blind invites me to a super group. I just put them on ignore instantly. Past experience has taught me that they will likely invite me again sometime in the next hour or next day because if they are blind inviting then they have usually forgotten who they have already sent tells to within that period of time.
|
So if Hot Head Mike is on Virtue, I imagine he's on my ignore list. But not because I have any kind of opinion about him. Certain MMORPG realities were not new to me, long even before I came here a year and a half ago. None of this ever chaps my hide anymore. My ignore filter takes care of everything. It's a knee jerk reaction.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Mike has the right mentality for telemarketing.
nothing wrong with inviting people to your SG. This guy was being a jerk. "/r no thanks" takes less than a second to type.
That said you should have stopped responding and added him to ignore once it was apparent he was going to be rude.
Quote:
For me, personally, I find it annoying, yes. I don't know you, so no, I'm not interested in joining your SG. That said, I'll typically just say "no thanks." |
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
I never realized how horrific people find this style of SG recruiting. I guess I may change my tactics. It just seems hard to keep an active fueled SG when your only inviting people you have to end up knowing on a personal level. I suppose it's better hearing it this way then more super antagonizing sarcastic remarks.
|
As for your tactics and reply above? You don't have to "know them personally," but there are better ways to recruit that will get you better people and a longer lasting SG. For instance, run some missions with them. See if they get along with your or not, then ask if they want to join the supergroup. That way, *they* should have an idea that it's not just some prestige farm they'll get kicked out of, and you'll know you're not getting someone you'll end up kicking a day later because they're getting on everyone else's nerves (or coming in to find they've cleared out your enhancements/salvage and sold it on the market.)
Alternately - even though it *can* be annoying, an occasional broadcast telling what your SG is, what they're interested in and that they're recruiting isn't that bad - I prefer it over getting blind SG invites, though I don't tend to reply to them.
And there's always the server boards down below. Mention you're starting an SG, what it's about, etc. and see who bites.
Quote:
You could and you should. Treating people like cattle is insulting in the extreme, and while you may or may not be successful in that endeavour, expect people to take offence at your approach. A lot of the community spirit in City of Heroes comes from the fact that people here, in general, tend to be more personable and more open, treating their fellow men as a friend and an equal, providing fun, engaging and fair environment. Treating people like pack animals there to be herded by an alpha male runs precisely contrary to this tendency, and is likely to cheese off a great many people otherwise used to belonging to groups of friends.|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
I guess I see your point on "treating them like meat" but most people I find don't seem to be offended when I herd them like cattle into my SG
Lol, on a serious note I guess I could come out with a better recruitment statement. |
I, myself, would not have tried to "fix" you over tells, as I know that's a pointless affair from years of experience. Telling people off changes nothing. However, I would give you a curt "No." and make a mental note to keep away from you because I do not appreciate being treated a faceless warm body there to fuel a soulless SG. Maybe it works for you, but it doesn't work for me. I am not a lost child just looking for guidance and I do not seek to latch on to the first person who offers me strong leadership. Quite the opposite - I'm willing to oppose anyone who tries that.
There's really only one thing to remember: When you invite people to anything whatsoever, the ONE thing you need to include in your invitation is a reason why they should care and why they should want to join you. Don't expect people to want to join ANYTHING and be in a constant state of waiting for an invite. Expect them to be perfectly happy the way they are, such that you have to CONVINCE them to join you.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
You know, if pretty much everyone except you thinks that you were spamming people (note, not just that one person with lots of tells, but a lot of people with basically one empty tell), it may just be time to concede that the possibility exists that you might be spamming.
Either way, as others have said, your method of recruiting just makes everyone think you want the prestige bonus for the first fifteen people in an SG and that's just the first big warning flag that the SG I'm being invited into is just horrible.
Spam is a noun, and in this case is being used to refer to "an unsolicited and undesired communication." (It's also a potted meat product, sort of like a giant hot dog in a can, but that's not the definition we're dealing with here.) In this game, a spam is any tell, invite, or email that a person didn't want to receive.
When you send out a wave of blind invites to characters you've never met, you are spamming them. In the same way that an email junkmailer is spamming people when they send out a thousand spam mails, even though each target only sees one of those.
And part of the reason you have a hard time keeping your SG "full" is the way you're inviting people. You try to recruit anything with a pulse. Many of those people that do join will look around, decide they don't like what they see, and quit. You *will* have better results if you stick to people that you've actually met in-game. Really, WHY would you want to invite random people you've never met?
I have no problem keeping my SG "full". I keep it steady the way I'm running it now. I have usual squad of 8 people on and I like it that way. I invite more people to revitalize it just in case people stop playing that character for long stretches of time. Growth is the key to success here, and well lets just say were growing exponentially