City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Talk About Inpolite...

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-11-20 14:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
And sending the same message to everyone levels 1-10 you can find is?
Again it depends on how frequently the message is sent.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Again it depends on how frequently the message is sent.
I'm just going to simplfy it to the Princeton definition of "junk e-mail (unwanted e-mail (usually of a commercial nature sent out in bulk))" or as I've said before int his thread "unsolicited advertisements" (normally sent in bulk). If you are blindly inviting people in super groups to your super group you are spamming.

 

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Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike View Post
Not sure why you guys are fueling the flame. I retired this thread. So don't expect any of my responses that you seem to crave.


Right?

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
Hi, Mike, you got an interesting thread started here! I think some replies might be a little at cross-purposes, though. Here is what is coming across to me:

-You sound like a fairly new player - not brand spankin' new, but not a vet, either (and if so, welcome!)

-You are full of enthusiasm and desire to get things rolling, meet new people, and put people together. (and if so, double great!)

-You are not the sort of person to hang back, and wait for fun to happen to you. You take the initiative and create fun and friendships. (TRIPLE great!)

You really sound like your heart and your intentions are all in the right place. I think I hear you saying a bit of "but wait... I really think I'm right here! This WORKS!" You sound like you have pulled together a lot of people, and I'm guessing they're newer players who might not have any real idea where to start to meet people, and get involved. I really do wish there were maybe something established to do exactly that, and if you are able to do it, that is fabulous! Seriously, God bless ya!

So I think you might not be quite understanding some of the responses that you've been getting, and it has nothing to do with what is - or isn't - spam. What people are reacting to is that in THIS game (maybe it's fine in other games) recruiting sight unseen is bad manners. Blind invites to sg's is just something Is Not Done. If you ARE doing it, then you are immediately suspect, and thought of as either a) a goof who doesn't know better (and who wants to join an sg by someone who doesn't know what they're doing?), or b) a jerk/user/creepy guy preying on newbies. This comes from personal experiences or word of mouth about people who are just looking for prestige for their sg's, and have used nice people, and treated them like meat. And that's how you come across, using your approach. Maybe not elsewhere. But here, yes.

The vast majority of people in this particular game are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet. Just amazing people! But they are not weak, spineless nice. Well, they are superheroes! But not only that, they are aware that they are the vast majority here, and just don't tolerate the jerks. You don't have to stop all the good stuff you're doing. Not at all! Just modify your approach in such a way that you don't come across badly.
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
How can you make a successful SG by randomly inviting players you know absolutely nothing about? It may not be your intention, but it certainly sends the message of someone who doesn't care about the kind of players in the SG, but only about getting as many members as possible to grind out prestige.

That's the way to go: spamming, grinding out prestige, more uncaring ceaseless spam, grind out prestige. It's SG building 101, fast track base building 101, How I built an SG base in 34 days by Howard B Jerk.
I am with Hot Mike, who has time to create a toon, start a team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, quit team, start team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, blah, blah, blah. Just start the spamming mills and watch the prestige roll in. I start SG's all the time and lord help any poor sucker logged in when I get a hankering for recruitment. That's the American way, high speed, high efficiency, recruitment. Like Hot Mike said leave the namby pamby chatin to Chuckles the Clown.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
The content of the message isn't the spam nor does the number of people recieving the message determine if a message is spam. It's the speed at which the message is being sent out that makes it spam.

For example:

Repeating the same message 100 times in 5 minutes is spam.

Repeating that same message once every 5 minutes is not spam.
So, if you get 1 email every 5 minutes trying to sell you influence that's not spam?

Right.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman View Post
Let me ask this question: if someone you don't know sends a tell asking if you'd like to team up, is that spamming? And if not, what's the difference? Both situations involve a complete stranger asking you a question completely unsolicited by you. Have we really gotten so insular as a community that all communication must be a certain way or it upsets us?
That depends.

Am I standing around doing nothing at the time?

Am I soloing?

Am I LFT?

Do I have my LFG flag specifically set to not teaming?

Am I already on a team?

Those factors will completely change my response to the tell asking if I want to join a team. Just looking in the search window will tell someone if I'm on a team or not LFT. I tend to get a little shirty, yes, in those situations.

If I'm just tooling around, or soloing? Well, I wish people wouldn't bother me when my flag isn't set to LFT, but a simple "No, thank you," is more than sufficient in those cases. No harm, no foul.

Am I LFT? Then hallelujah for getting a tell instead of just a blind invite!

Sending out mass-produced tells to people already in SGs is analogous to the first situation; it's tiresome and rude, and no one should expect a polite response while they're trying to shovel people they've never even SEEN into their SG.

 

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Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
So, if you get 1 email every 5 minutes trying to sell you influence that's not spam?

Right.

No it isn't spam because I get it every 5 minutes. It's spam because 1000 people get the same message in those 5 minutes.

Also spam is not limited to RMT so don't try to confuse the subject by deliberately focusing on RMT companies. Their services are against the rules regardless of how they advertise whether it's

Announced in a global channel
Sent via tell
Sent via email
Recruiting people to teams/SG's and telling them about the services
Advertised in the SG MOTD (Message of the Day)
Spelled out on the walls of a base in wall lights
Constantly being spoken by NPC's in an AE mission
Spelled out in corpses falling from the sky (done in another game)
Spelled out using chest symbols on disposable characters on a bunch of trial accounts

 

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Originally Posted by FiberOptic View Post
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
How can you make a successful SG by randomly inviting players you know absolutely nothing about? It may not be your intention, but it certainly sends the message of someone who doesn't care about the kind of players in the SG, but only about getting as many members as possible to grind out prestige.

That's the way to go: spamming, grinding out prestige, more uncaring ceaseless spam, grind out prestige. It's SG building 101, fast track base building 101, How I built an SG base in 34 days by Howard B Jerk.
I am with Hot Mike, who has time to create a toon, start a team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, quit team, start team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, blah, blah, blah. Just start the spamming mills and watch the prestige roll in. I start SG's all the time and lord help any poor sucker logged in when I get a hankering for recruitment. That's the American way, high speed, high efficiency, recruitment. Like Hot Mike said leave the namby pamby chatin to Chuckles the Clown.
Stealth editing another persons post and adding a bunch of crap they didn't say is really stupid (especially when that post is in the same thread) because the original unedited post is available for everyone to see and requote.

This is what Panzerwaffen really said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
How can you make a successful SG by randomly inviting players you know absolutely nothing about? It may not be your intention, but it certainly sends the message of someone who doesn't care about the kind of players in the SG, but only about getting as many members as possible to grind out prestige.

Honestly, if I was looking for an SG, your recruiting tactics would steer me away from your group completely.
And here is a direct link to his unedited post.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...1&postcount=32

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
No it isn't spam because I get it every 5 minutes. It's spam because 1000 people get the same message in those 5 minutes.
This is such nonsense.


Quote:
Also spam is not limited to RMT so don't try to confuse the subject by deliberately focusing on RMT companies. Their services are against the rules regardless of how they advertise whether it's

Announced in a global channel
Sent via tell
Sent via email
Recruiting people to teams/SG's and telling them about the services
Advertised in the SG MOTD (Message of the Day)
Spelled out on the walls of a base in wall lights
Constantly being spoken by NPC's in an AE mission
Spelled out in corpses falling from the sky (done in another game)
Spelled out using chest symbols on disposable characters on a bunch of trial accounts
Being against the rules has nothing to do with wether something is spam or not. All that it has to be is an unsolicited message that's trying to 'sell' something to people. Whether that is influence, a SG or larger genitals, inside or outside the game.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

I don't think he was stealth-editing that post, Forbin. I think he just didn't know how to use quotes, and as a result, he ended Panzerwaffen's post, hit enter, and then added his own highly sarcastic two cents. My guess is he just needs to learn how to use /quote twice in one post.

EDIT: You know, it is actually a little more difficult to post quotes from two different people in the same post. Does someone have things like that stickied somewhere?

Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
...
EDIT: You know, it is actually a little more difficult to post quotes from two different people in the same post. Does someone have things like that stickied somewhere?

The easiest way to do it is to hit the Multi-Quote button that is to the right of the Quote button.
You can hit that on each post you wish to include, as you read through.
And then when you're ready, hit REPLY or a final QUOTE and all of the previously selected Multi-Quoted replies will appear in your new reply.
I think there is a limit of 6 multi-quotes using that method (not positive on that number).

You could also open up a quoted reply in a new tab for each and every post you want to include, and then copy and paste them all into one final reply of your own.


EDIT:
You can also type [ QUOTE = username ] (without the spaces) and place the quoted text afterward. Then follow it with [ /QUOTE ] (again, without the spaces).

What I am not sure about is what the code is to make the little "view post" triangle clicky thing that links to the original post you are quoting!
That's where actually using the quote and/or multi-quote buttons save me the trouble!
(And, no problem, Valerika!)

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

Posted

Thanks, Electric-Knight.

Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika

 

Posted

I wanted to leave my previous (hopefully helpful) reply on its own, hehe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
I don't think he was stealth-editing that post, Forbin. I think he just didn't know how to use quotes, and as a result, he ended Panzerwaffen's post, hit enter, and then added his own highly sarcastic two cents. My guess is he just needs to learn how to use /quote twice in one post.
...

I agree and thought the same thing.

I think Fiber_Optic was attempting to do this and just messed up the quoting stuff:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiberOptic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
Hi, Mike, you got an interesting thread started here! I think some replies might be a little at cross-purposes, though. Here is what is coming across to me:

-You sound like a fairly new player - not brand spankin' new, but not a vet, either (and if so, welcome!)

-You are full of enthusiasm and desire to get things rolling, meet new people, and put people together. (and if so, double great!)

-You are not the sort of person to hang back, and wait for fun to happen to you. You take the initiative and create fun and friendships. (TRIPLE great!)

You really sound like your heart and your intentions are all in the right place. I think I hear you saying a bit of "but wait... I really think I'm right here! This WORKS!" You sound like you have pulled together a lot of people, and I'm guessing they're newer players who might not have any real idea where to start to meet people, and get involved. I really do wish there were maybe something established to do exactly that, and if you are able to do it, that is fabulous! Seriously, God bless ya!

So I think you might not be quite understanding some of the responses that you've been getting, and it has nothing to do with what is - or isn't - spam. What people are reacting to is that in THIS game (maybe it's fine in other games) recruiting sight unseen is bad manners. Blind invites to sg's is just something Is Not Done. If you ARE doing it, then you are immediately suspect, and thought of as either a) a goof who doesn't know better (and who wants to join an sg by someone who doesn't know what they're doing?), or b) a jerk/user/creepy guy preying on newbies. This comes from personal experiences or word of mouth about people who are just looking for prestige for their sg's, and have used nice people, and treated them like meat. And that's how you come across, using your approach. Maybe not elsewhere. But here, yes.

The vast majority of people in this particular game are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet. Just amazing people! But they are not weak, spineless nice. Well, they are superheroes! But not only that, they are aware that they are the vast majority here, and just don't tolerate the jerks. You don't have to stop all the good stuff you're doing. Not at all! Just modify your approach in such a way that you don't come across badly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
How can you make a successful SG by randomly inviting players you know absolutely nothing about? It may not be your intention, but it certainly sends the message of someone who doesn't care about the kind of players in the SG, but only about getting as many members as possible to grind out prestige.
That's the way to go: spamming, grinding out prestige, more uncaring ceaseless spam, grind out prestige. It's SG building 101, fast track base building 101, How I built an SG base in 34 days by Howard B Jerk.
I am with Hot Mike, who has time to create a toon, start a team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, quit team, start team, chat it up, ask if anyone wants to join SG, blah, blah, blah. Just start the spamming mills and watch the prestige roll in. I start SG's all the time and lord help any poor sucker logged in when I get a hankering for recruitment. That's the American way, high speed, high efficiency, recruitment. Like Hot Mike said leave the namby pamby chatin to Chuckles the Clown.

That was my interpretation and theory, at least.

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Spelled out using chest symbols on disposable characters on a bunch of trial accounts
That's creative, you've seen this?

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
I don't think he was stealth-editing that post, Forbin. I think he just didn't know how to use quotes, and as a result, he ended Panzerwaffen's post, hit enter, and then added his own highly sarcastic two cents. My guess is he just needs to learn how to use /quote twice in one post.

EDIT: You know, it is actually a little more difficult to post quotes from two different people in the same post. Does someone have things like that stickied somewhere?

If that is what happened then I apologize for misunderstanding what he was attempting to do. (Bolded to indicate sincerity)

 

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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
That's creative, you've seen this?
It was 3-4 years ago but yeah. I saw it in the hero tutorial but I can't remember which server it was on.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
Being against the rules has nothing to do with wether something is spam or not. All that it has to be is an unsolicited message that's trying to 'sell' something to people. Whether that is influence, a SG or larger genitals, inside or outside the game.
I agree. That is what I meant when I said it's not the message itself. Some people only think of RMT as spam but that's not the only kind of spam there is.

Oh and it's not just the "selling" that's spam, the "begging" is just as bad and includes people asking for everything from inf to team invites (PL meh!).

I've even seen a moron begging for Vanguard Merits and another for AE tickets. The character the Vangaurd Merit begger was on was only level 8 so he couldn't even get into the zone (it was still level restricted then) even if the merits were transferable.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Oh and it's not just the "selling" that's spam, the "begging" is just as bad and includes people asking for everything from inf to team invites (PL meh!).
I remember a player once kill-stole me, then flew in close and told me "Please give me money." How did you know that was the key to my heart?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I remember a player once kill-stole me, then flew in close and told me "Please give me money." How did you know that was the key to my heart?!?
"That was a close one, but I wasn't about to let that big bad enemy hurt you, Valerika. If I hadn't swooped in at the last minute, he might have seriously injured you or messed up that pretty face. Now, now, there's no need to thank me, but I am accepting cash donations."

"Help" of this kind is irritating and unwanted, but the most annoying part is that the person doing it honestly thinks they did you a FAVOR. It's like when my cat brings home a dead animal in its mouth and drops it on my doorstep. I know she means well. In her mind, she saved me from a trip to the grocery store to get dinner...

Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
"That was a close one, but I wasn't about to let that big bad enemy hurt you, Valerika. If I hadn't swooped in at the last minute, he might have seriously injured you or messed up that pretty face. Now, now, there's no need to thank me, but I am accepting cash donations."

"Help" of this kind is irritating and unwanted, but the most annoying part is that the person doing it honestly thinks they did you a FAVOR. It's like when my cat brings home a dead animal in its mouth and drops it on my doorstep. I know she means well. In her mind, she saved me from a trip to the grocery store to get dinner...
Saving other characters from harm is a delicate matter, but one for which I've never been spat upon, and often thanked. How so? Well, I always take the time to look at a few things, those being the character's archetype, powers, level, health and endurance. You can see all of these at a glance. A scrapper with Super Reflexes can have a lot of fight left in him, even (if not especially) with his health bar in the red. Any "rescue" will likely be perceived as an arrogant blunder, and they may even call you names, up to and including "Longbow recruit!". Same for many tanks.

Most blasters and controllers in the red, on the other hand, may just be thankful for the rescue. I always throw out a "Close one!" afterward, and launch briefly into some RP if they're receptive to that (I play on Virtue), and maybe even offer to help them with a mission if they need it and I've got time.

Instead of asking for something in return, I almost always gift them with one or two of the largest inspirations I have on hand. Yeah, eventually I'll come across someone (like yourself) who would have rather perished than receive any help. And my response will probably just be an honest apology. But to date, a few of my best in-game friends have been met in this way.

@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH

 

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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric View Post
Saving other characters from harm is a delicate matter, but one for which I've never been spat upon, and often thanked. How so? Well, I always take the time to look at a few things, those being the character's archetype, powers, level, health and endurance.
Then none of what I said applies to you, since most of the time that I recieve this "help", I have a full or almost full health bar or easy access to a self-heal or inspirations, etc.

Quote:
Yeah, eventually I'll come across someone (like yourself) who would have rather perished than receive any help.
You're making a false assumption (but you can't be blamed for that since I didn't provide enough information)--the part that makes it most annoying when I recieve "help" that is really just unintentional kill-stealing, is that I'm not in any real danger. If I were really dying, I would WELCOME the help (and the accompanying RP would be nice too ) But what most often happens is that I have a full health bar (on a brute, usually WP or invuln), the enemy is almost dead, and the stranger blasts away the last sliver of their health. Then they fish for compliments.

So Captain, what you describe is very good behavior that I wish more people would exhibit. It's definitely not what I was complaining about

Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
"Help" of this kind is irritating and unwanted, but the most annoying part is that the person doing it honestly thinks they did you a FAVOR. It's like when my cat brings home a dead animal in its mouth and drops it on my doorstep. I know she means well. In her mind, she saved me from a trip to the grocery store to get dinner...
Well, it's certainly not her fault if you don't have a craving for shredded squirrel.

Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Seriously? People are worried about kill-stealing? Is anyone afraid that they're going to run out of Hellions? If someone is following you around and defeating anything you come near, I can understand. But everytime someone has "kill-stolen" something from me, I look around for like five seconds or so, defeat it, and go on my merry way. Of all the things to get upset over, this is way down at the bottom of my list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
It's like when my cat brings home a dead animal in its mouth and drops it on my doorstep. I know she means well. In her mind, she saved me from a trip to the grocery store to get dinner...
Would it kill you just once to show some appreciation and eat the damn animal? Do you think it's easy to catch those things for you?

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
Seriously? People are worried about kill-stealing? Is anyone afraid that they're going to run out of Hellions?
Kill stealing Hellions isn't annoying, but kill-stealing more rare enemies when you're badge hunting *is* pretty annoying. Thanks for the lousy strawman, though. :P

Quote:
If someone is following you around and defeating anything you come near, I can understand.
This has happened to me before. Once someone did it to me because they were griefing, but usually people do it because they just assume I need the help even if I clearly don't (I consider this a form of...chauvanistic assumption of weakness).

Quote:
But everytime someone has "kill-stolen" something from me, I look around for like five seconds or so, defeat it, and go on my merry way. Of all the things to get upset over, this is way down at the bottom of my list.
You're missing the point. It isn't the kill-stealing that's annoying, it's the fact that people want you to THANK them for it.

Quote:
Would it kill you just once to show some appreciation and eat the damn animal? Do you think it's easy to catch those things for you?
Well, I do pat her on the head and say "good kitty". Then I wait until she's gone and pick up the animal by its tail and throw it in the garbage. I had enough strange meals (like squirrel, believe it or not) when I was growing up in Georgia. What can I say, my dad liked to hunt.

Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika

 

Posted

Since we are on the subject of rudeness and SG recruiting. I had this sort of situation happen to me a month or so back.

I'd just joined a pick up group in Peregrine Island and we blazed through the first mission. We went into the second mission and about two MoBs in I commented.

Me: This is fantastic XP. And this team is a lot of fun.

Leader: Great, glad you're having a good time, would you like to join my SG?

Me: No thank you. I run my own SG, I don't really need another.

Leader: You sure you don't want to join my SG?

Me: No, like I said , I run my own. I like having my own base, plus I sometimes disappear for weeks at a time due to school and real life, most SGs don't like that sort of schedule.

Leader: That's too bad.


Then I was promptly booted from the team, Mid mission, so I was kicked out of the instance. So I was curious and I sent a tell to the Leader.

Me: Hey man, what's up? Why was a I booted from the team?

A couple minutes past.

Me: Umm hello? I'd really like to know why I got kicked off the team.

Leader: Why, are you not happy with your decision?

Me: Huh? What decision? you mean not joining your SG?

Leader: Are you happy with your decision?

Me: Did you really just kick me from the team for not joining your SG?



He never responded after that. It was honestly, the weirdest damned thing ever.

"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker