Don't go Free to Play(F2P), COH
By
33253,
Posted on: 2010-10-27 07:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It will be very easy to avoid discussing other games, by not discussing anything at all.
My use of the forums will now be restricted to following the Dev and Community Digests for important announcements. Someone call me when we're allowed to talk again.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Oh, I sit corrected. There is a good side to the new forum rules! 
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Sure we're pretty ok with that. Please do be careful not to let it go into personal attacks though.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Am I allowed to post that I think your rules are kind of stupid and short-sighted?
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-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
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Cool. I think your rules are kind of stupid and short-sighted. |
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
Sure we're pretty ok with that. Please do be careful not to let it go into personal attacks though.
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I don't use that as a personal assessment of anyone employed by Paragon Studios or NCSoft, however.
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ROFLOL!|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Oh, I sit corrected. There is a good side to the new forum rules!
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I'm glad there weren't any customers in the store when I read that. XD
They are also arbitrarily enforced across a wide playing field, and that is frustrating. I know what I can and cannot say for person A, but not for person B.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I'm still puzzled as to why this reversion to the old rules was deemed necessary. When the forum rules were relaxed, then updated, we had numerous completely acceptable threads and conversations about other games. Even in the old days things weren't so over the top as to expurgate even a mention of another game.
So did something happen when I was away that deemed this necessary?
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I feel the need to second this. Especially when the context is basically, "Hey Paragon! See what this game is doing? They're being stupid, please don't do this!" and then y'all can say "Duh, it's stupid, we're not gonna do that" and look like big damn heroes for no effort at all or try for the more challenging "Well, we've been thinking about doing something like that, but would do it differently to try and better accomplish stuff" or just the ever-popular "no comment".|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Am I allowed to post that I think your rules are kind of stupid and short-sighted?
|
Comparisons and contrasts with competing and/or similar products are feedback, and having to beat around the bush makes it harder to convey that feedback and focus on doing so in a constructive manner.
Obviously, outright advertising other companies' products and services in your house is an entirely reasonable no-no, but this thread has basically been the opposite of that...
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Got it. Thanks for not coming down hard on some of our not-so-veiled attempts to disguise things. Will be more cautious in the future. A shame too... I was getting my creative juices flowing making lists for all the references to "the game that rhymes with." Some real gems in there....|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
Thanks much!
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Ah, well... back to plan B. Everyone set your Captain Javascript Secret Decoder rings to 1357.
rtijwfytw 08 btzqi pnqq rj
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Good grief !, (I take it it was my post that pre-empted the reminder?) - and I didn't even mention the competitive product by name, but i did mention the company names of another word similar to 'Amazing' and the two capital-letters that usually follow 'Washington'.|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
A number of posters have tried to obey this rule by not mentioning the name of another game, but instead describing it in another way. Unfortunately, that still isn’t good enough.
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Even that is not allowed?, thats ridiculous in my personal opinion.
Its your forums guys and i'll happily abide by their rules, but just so you know, that is taking things to such an embarrassing & ridiculous extent, that by not even remotely alluding to the competition analogy of an 800lb gorilla in the corner - It makes it all the more painfully obvious.
I know from your company perspective its to prevent the worst of the threadjacks, but to the rest of us Its pretty condesending to say we cannot sensibly discuss what does effect a game we've helped support over the last 5 years, in the marketplace we're all too familiar with.
You do realise you are not actually restricting any competitive information to subscribers by such draconian reinforcement of the recent forum rules revision, but you will drive people away from the forums.
As you are no doubt aware we discuss CoX on their (other) forums, and whilst not actively encouraged, and sometimes even reminded or trimmed, Devs even drop in and chat, it makes for a nice atmosphere.
It is nowhere as paranoid as these forums are becoming.
Never thought I'd see the day, what a shame.
A lot of the things we're discussing can't be discussed within the boundaries you've given. That makes the rules stupid and throttles intelligent discussion.
I understand if you want to moderate or stop outright bashing, but not even being allowed to discuss the mechanics and pros/cons of the mechanics other games are implementing? That's just ridiculous.
For instance, in the post of mine that you retconned, you didn't just take out the reference to the name of the game. You took out the discussions of the *mechanics* that are very bothersome since the game went F2P.
So am I to assume that we can not only NOT say "the brightly-colored alien game" (which I just made up, as far as I know) but we can also not say "in the F2P game I am currently playing, they do X, which I dislike" ?
That seems extreme.
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But... but... you're wearing two bulls-eyes on your chest!!!|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
Sure we're pretty ok with that. Please do be careful not to let it go into personal attacks though.
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Not necessarily Just takes more effort. If you want to compare two specific games' F2P models, go to each, copy the data on their tiered system, and then roughly translate them to generic terms, present them here as Model A and Model B with no mention of the source.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
A lot of the things we're discussing can't be discussed within the boundaries you've given. That makes the rules stupid and throttles intelligent discussion.
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Looks like Moderator 08 just doesn't want us using the "swear word escape" -- where, rather than saying "son of a *****" you say "your mom is registered with the american kennel club." It means the same thing and avoids the cussing, but everyone knows what you really MEAN.
2 Corrections, firstly partially masking profanity is not allowed it must be completely masked. It's a compromise position that I don't love, but trying to keep people from swearing is difficult. I've gone ahead and fixed that for you
. Secondly telling someone there mother is registered with the American kennel club is a personal attack, regardless of profanity. -Mod08
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You can't say "the f2p game I'm currently playing" but you can say "I hope they don't do X which I dislike". Not as extreme as it seems to appear.|
Originally Posted by Mothers_Love
Good grief !, (I take it it was my post that pre-empted the reminder?) - and I didn't even mention the competitive product by name, but i did mention the company names of another word similar to 'Amazing' and the two capital-letters that usually follow 'Washington'.
Even that is not allowed?, thats ridiculous in my personal opinion. Its your forums guys and i'll happily abide by their rules, but just so you know, that is taking things to such an embarrassing & ridiculous extent, that by not even remotely alluding to the competition analogy of an 800lb gorilla in the corner - It makes it all the more painfully obvious. I know from your company perspective its to prevent the worst of the threadjacks, but to the rest of us Its pretty condesending to say we cannot sensibly discuss what does effect a game we've helped support over the last 5 years, in the marketplace we're all too familiar with. You do realise are not actually restricting any competitive information to subscribers by such draconian reinforcement of the recent forum rules revision, but you will drive people away from the forums. As you are no doubt aware we discuss CoX on their (other) forums, and whilst not actively encouraged, and sometimes even reminded or trimmed, Devs even drop in and chat, it makes for a nice atmosphere. It is nowhere as paranoid as these forums are becoming. Never thought I'd see the day, what a shame. |
As in "I hope they don't level cap, which I would dislike" or "I hope they don't restrict chat in between non paying customers and paying customers, which I would dislike".
It's easy folks, just don't phrase it in the specific context. Ideas don't need to be tied to the specific context where you got them, they're just as valid when expressed solely as ideas. Since these are forums and not a debate club, you don't have to worry about winning or losing. Talk about ideas not other games.
-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
I don't come here to "win" and when I'm wrong I admit it. However explaining to someone why things would or wouldn't work takes facts, and facts require examples and citation.
Effective debate is about a back and forth discussion and the exchange of accurate information, so the thoughts and ideas are improved or discarded. If you knock information and examples out of the tripod, it becomes feelings and opinions, which can't be gainsaid, or even discussed effectively because you've made them sacred. Under those rules pretty much any disagreement can be taken as a personal attack, which just means you'd have more threads devolving into chaos not less.
I come here to inform and be informed. Having to guess where someone is getting their information or idea or what event they're referring to hinders that. Under these rules, I can't even say "I've tried this idea before in another game, it doesn't work." There's no frame of reference and my objection inspires no one to think because it's just an open ended opinion that can be dismissed.
If this is the hardline interpretation you guys are going to stick to, you might as well just make everything a Forum Poll or allow people to use /jranger as a response again, because "Yes" and "No" are going to be the only meaningful response anyone can give.
A forum is a place of discussion, this kind of thing turns this from a forum into a Comment Thread.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I like this one. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Can we use the phrase "the Namesless Enemy"?
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I have to agree these rules are a bit overbearing. You need to decide if you still want this to be a community or not. As they stand, the rules are tearing down the community, for the sake of what I am unsure.
There are other games that I have tried, but the community always pales in comparison to the CoX community. I fear that the tyrannical policies being pushed will damage that aspect for many people.
I also find it odd that the names of other games are more heavily monitored than some curse words, or personal attacks on these boards. I find that to be an odd priority to have.
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I was gonna type something in reply to what Moderator08 said, but I ended up laughing so hard I squirted the thought out my nose.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Can we use the phrase "the Namesless Enemy"?
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Thoughts are tingly.
Anyway, on topic, I guess in the proper speak my suggestions would be:
- Don't go (pseudo)f2p.
- If you feel you must go f2p, examine the marketplace of hybrid f2p games and don't come up with a model that looks like an inferior value on its face.
- Also don't actually give inferior value. But do keep being clever like charging $5 a month as an idiot tax for the jetpack. I mean, you probably don't sell a whole lot of those, but that's basically pure profit on something people can get trivially easily in the game anyway (good thing only a fraction of players read the forums, too). Frankly, its presence on the store increases CoH's relative entertainment value for me, knowing there are people silly enough to use it - including a friend of mine who I thusly rib mercilessly (yet he still does).
- Um, stuff. Something something... oh! Assuming any f2p move would involve heavily leaning on an item shop, as they seem to, include an item shop stipend in your subscription model. For various reasons, mostly involving consumers tending to exhibit behaviors that work against themselves, that would seem to have a good chance of increasing your store revenue. Then I can delude myself into thinking I'll be just fine as a savvy consumer.
If "the Nameless Enemy" isn't ok, then would option B, the phrase "Jack Nerfem Forever", be ok?
@Golden Girl
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I am too tired to meet multiple standards. I'm out.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Hmm... true... let's see...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If "the Nameless Enemy" isn't ok, then would option B, the phrase "Jack Nerfem Forever", be ok?
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*Puts on Rules Lawyer helmet.
... the rules say we can't talk about GAMES... but what if we bracketed the different F2P philosophies of the different lead developers that implemented them. We'd have (totally made up) the "Bianco Paradigm" vs the... umm... "Miller Paradigm."
Everyone would know what we mean, but no games are discussed, just the ideas-- and they're even properly attributed!
* looks around the room.
* Realizes that the Rule Lawyer Helm... imposing as it is... offers little protection from the +8 modsmack of doom.
* Removes the Rule Lawyer Helm, shifts uncomfortably
* Points to Golden Girl
Uhh... it was her idea
* Runs from the thread.
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The problem is that there's no F2P game on the market today that currently advertises as a feature that the game will split you into random layers along semi-arbitrary seam lines, which causes people to get separated from the rest of the players, causes enormous lag and latency issues, causes detargetting, deaggro and multiple combat issues, can cause DC and bugging-out of the toon for several hours if it happens in a raid setting, and other nonsense caused by one the game's decision to implement F2P and software to deal with what people are/are not allowed to have access to.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Hmm... true... let's see...
*Puts on Rules Lawyer helmet. ... the rules say we can't talk about GAMES... but what if we bracketed the different F2P philosophies of the different lead developers that implemented them. |
However, there are at least 2 F2P games out there where this IS the case.
So breaking it down by "philosophy" or what one game offers for "free" vs "subscriber" wouldn't work to discuss the issue, would it?
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No, that's pretty extreme. I can't think of a single other forum with a policy half as extreme as that which is good because you'd just edit the name out anyway.|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
Not as extreme as it seems to appear.
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| It's easy folks |
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I can think of several forums that have very similar policies, if not more restrictive. Unfortunately, I can't list em. They belong to... um... other games.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
No, that's pretty extreme. I can't think of a single other forum with a policy half as extreme as that which is good because you'd just edit the name out anyway.
It's ridiculous is what it is. |
Am I allowed to post that I think your rules are kind of stupid and short-sighted?