City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Discussion: 78 Month Veteran Reward: Purposeful

4_Thirty_5

By 4_Thirty_5,
Posted on: 2010-10-21 24:00 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
The wording is a bit vague, but it looks like a power with 5 charges, and 5 bars of Patrol xp each time. I haven't read other threads on this, I don't know if you can burn all 5 charges at once and have 2.5 levels or bonus xp saved up, or what.
[Experienced]
Quote:
NOTE: Any Patrol XP granted through this power beyond the one level limit will be lost.

 

Posted

Interesting mechanic. I can see those who play a bunch of alts getting a lot of use out of this, but unless this can tie into the incarnate system somehow I doubt I'll find much use for it - Dr. Vahzilok managed to put a vaccine against alt-itis in the water system of Steel Canyon, or something.

Thanks for keeping the system going, CoH Team.

The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted

@Paladin

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janlee View Post
You have to admit though:

After costume pieces, base items, and some items per character... This is a major change for a system that nerfed every other method of "fast tracking" a character.
Maybe I'm confused. Are you seriously suggesting that this Vet reward provides a significant leveling speed advantage? 1.25 levels that anyone else can get simply by managing their alt play? 1.25 levels that are directed at the very people who are most likely to have multiple 50s already?

I don't care one way or the other, but it seems to me that if anything, Purposeful is too weak. We're talking about people who've been subscribed to the game for six and a half years; if the devs' notion was that those players might deserve the ability to skip some amount of content that they've already done a bajillion times, then this ain't it. On the other hand, Purposeful has no application at all for level-capped characters. It doesn't (presumably) help alts that are already capped out on patrol experience. Do you really think that someone who's played the game since 2004 doesn't have other characters to play while his alts accrue the patrol bonus normally?

Other games do things like auto-level you to 20 after a certain amount of experience as a player. By comparison, Purposeful doesn't rate. It's a token gesture designed to be as inoffensive as possible to non-Vets. In that sense, it's a resounding success -- or should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
As one of the main representatives of the "Vet Rewards Suck" party, I'd like to voice my support for this vet power. It's a nice little bonus for vets, and nothing other players can't get with a little more work (or, in this case, a little more switching up of characters.) A very good balance balanced supremely well, Devs.
I have to admit, I never thought I would read praise for the Vet Rewards from you Eiko-Chan. I have to agree though, this one is pretty good overall. They found a good balance with this one I think.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
Maybe I'm confused. Are you seriously suggesting that this Vet reward provides a significant leveling speed advantage? 1.25 levels that anyone else can get simply by managing their alt play? 1.25 levels that are directed at the very people who are most likely to have multiple 50s already?

I don't care one way or the other, but it seems to me that if anything, Purposeful is too weak. We're talking about people who've been subscribed to the game for six and a half years; if the devs' notion was that those players might deserve the ability to skip some amount of content that they've already done a bajillion times, then this ain't it. On the other hand, Purposeful has no application at all for level-capped characters. It doesn't (presumably) help alts that are already capped out on patrol experience. Do you really think that someone who's played the game since 2004 doesn't have other characters to play while his alts accrue the patrol bonus normally?

Other games do things like auto-level you to 20 after a certain amount of experience as a player. By comparison, Purposeful doesn't rate. It's a token gesture designed to be as inoffensive as possible to non-Vets. In that sense, it's a resounding success -- or should be.
Personally, I think this is more useful to people that have been around and have a high number of high level toons, even Level 50 toons. I may be wrong, but last I knew, if you stop earning XP, then it gets converted into cash (INF). If that is still the case, then you are getting 150% of the cash for each kill for the equivalent of two and a half levels of XP. At Level 50 that is pretty significant. Not HUGE, but pretty significant none the less. Alternately, if you use this "power" at level 47, you could go from level 47 to 49.25 in the time it would have normally taken you to get from level 47 to 48. Again, not HUGE, but still pretty significant.

As for your auto leveling to level 20 . . . isn't this game easy enough for you yet? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything, but it is now almost impossible to fail at most SFs/TFs unless you have a really bad team. Add to that auto-completing missions and the 30 bars of Patrolling Experience (works the same as this power) for the Day Job badge and really, how much easier could you really want it?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan3 View Post
If that is still the case, then you are getting 150% of the cash for each kill for the equivalent of two and a half levels of XP.
50s don't get patrol XP; thus, I would assume that this power would have no use for level 50 characters.

With one exception: 50s still accrue "Patrol XP" to pay off debt (if they have it), so this could be useful if you're running something really hard and accrue a bunch of debt; you could click the power to pay off your debt and thus not lose out on the bonus inf you'd lose paying off debt the normal way.

But like I said, since this is not something other players can't do in other ways, I think it's a fine Vet Reward.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janlee View Post
You have to admit though:

After costume pieces, base items, and some items per character... This is a major change for a system that nerfed every other method of "fast tracking" a character.
Would you care to cite some examples of 'fast tracking' a character that have been 'nerfed?'

The game has also bumped up leveling speed, added patrol exp for everyone, and nerfed debt from the first issue, maybe earlier. (I know 'cause I still remember the earliest changes to debt.) Blowing a hole in the "They nerfed powerleveling" claims you seem to be implying.

Weather this is a 'major change' depends on your playstyle and definition of 'fast tracking.'

Personally, I like the reward. Personally, I don't find it to be a major change, nor an overpowered one. Or as WWE Hall of Fame member Jerry Lawler was so fond of saying, "I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong."

Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/ / AIL - Celebrating five years!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan3 View Post
As for your auto leveling to level 20 . . . isn't this game easy enough for you yet? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything, but it is now almost impossible to fail at most SFs/TFs unless you have a really bad team. Add to that auto-completing missions and the 30 bars of Patrolling Experience (works the same as this power) for the Day Job badge and really, how much easier could you really want it?
Read the post to which I was responding. Then re-read my post. I never asked to have my characters auto-leveled to 20. I was just pointing out that other games do it. I appreciate that you don't mean to be condescending, but I wasn't the one complaining. This was never about whether or not I find the game easy; in fact, I responded to contradict someone who seems to think that the leveling progression in this game is too slow.

The bottom line is that complaints about this vet badge are silly. The bonus is negligible and -- amusingly -- least useful to the only people who are eligible for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

It seems like an appropriately useful power for a vet reward. Personally, I have altitis and have been playing other things as well so I generally have either a load of patrol xp available or a new day job badge whenever I log onto a character but I appreciate the gesture.

Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
50s don't get patrol XP; thus, I would assume that this power would have no use for level 50 characters.

With one exception: 50s still accrue "Patrol XP" to pay off debt (if they have it), so this could be useful if you're running something really hard and accrue a bunch of debt; you could click the power to pay off your debt and thus not lose out on the bonus inf you'd lose paying off debt the normal way.

But like I said, since this is not something other players can't do in other ways, I think it's a fine Vet Reward.
My understanding of the mechanic is that when your character is not able to get XP for some reason (Mal/EX down if you choose to not get XP or Level 50) then that XP gets converted to INF instead. As far as I can tell, that has not changed, but with out a RED NAME chiming in, I don't know how to test it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan3 View Post
My understanding of the mechanic is that when your character is not able to get XP for some reason (Mal/EX down if you choose to not get XP or Level 50) then that XP gets converted to INF instead. As far as I can tell, that has not changed, but with out a RED NAME chiming in, I don't know how to test it.
I think that's what Eiko-chan was saying... You don't get that INF bonus while you have debt. The Experienced power can be used like a "Get out of Debt Free" card.

 

Posted

I'd like to make a suggestion, and yes I'm sure someone out there won't like it, but I'd like to see a vet reward that just lets me chose the first or second power from both primary and secondary pools at creation. I don't think it would be game breaking, and some of the choices would just be nice to have, whether I took them or not.

"Only two things are infinite: the Universe and Human stupidity . . . and I'm not so sure about the Universe."
- - - Albert Einstein

 

Posted

Very interesting idea Morghan. I personally like it and I agree with you, it shouldn't be game breaking either. The only problem I do see with it is in the game coding. Right now we are set up to have powers become available available at certain levels. This "might" make doing your idea a bit more difficult than they are willing to do. Giving out Perma-Temp powers on the other hand is not so difficult since they are not tied in to the level progression. Still, I do like your idea.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgahn View Post
I'd like to make a suggestion, and yes I'm sure someone out there won't like it, but I'd like to see a vet reward that just lets me chose the first or second power from both primary and secondary pools at creation. I don't think it would be game breaking, and some of the choices would just be nice to have, whether I took them or not.
The problem is this lets people skip the 1st power in their primary set. Might not seem like an issue to you, but I bet PvPers would lose their marbles if only some of them had that flexibility, while most would not.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallowed View Post
The problem is this lets people skip the 1st power in their primary set. Might not seem like an issue to you, but I bet PvPers would lose their marbles if only some of them had that flexibility, while most would not.
I usually skip the first power in my primary power set (if it is an attack power) and go straight for the second one. I don't see how that would be a problem personally.

 

Posted

Gah...

Meant first power in the secondary set.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgahn View Post
I'd like to make a suggestion, and yes I'm sure someone out there won't like it, but I'd like to see a vet reward that just lets me chose the first or second power from both primary and secondary pools at creation. I don't think it would be game breaking, and some of the choices would just be nice to have, whether I took them or not.
Hi, I'm someone.

My objection to veteran rewards is based on a simple principle: I am utterly against veterans getting abilities other players cannot replicate. Exclusive costumes, City Traveller, and this proposal would all qualify. (The permanent Temporary Powers do not qualify, however, as each one is available from some story arc that can be repeated in Ouroboros, so these bonuses are available to other players.)

I can see the value of Veteran Rewards in the form of "nice little bonuses so you don't have to do as much work now that you've been playing so long". "Nice little bonuses that give you abilities/options completely new", on the other hand, are divisive and destructive; especially at this late date, new players aren't going to see a 6+ year reward as something "great to look forward to", but something they will never get, thus making veterans "better" than them. You do not want new players feeling like they will never catch up and never get the good stuff if you keep adding bonuses like this to the end of the rewards cycle, and thus rewards need to be those that give a bonus, but not an insurmountable advantage.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
My objection to veteran rewards is based on a simple principle: I am utterly against veterans getting abilities other players cannot replicate.
How, "cannot replicate"?

I got my junk by staying subscribed for a very long time, they can do the same.

There are plenty of in-game rewards I "cannot replicate" thanks to a restricted and unpredictable play schedule...that doesn't mean the players who do shouldn't have them.

Vet rewards are another path of 'advancement', one of many in the game.
It is one of the more egalitarian paths in the game, requiring nothing more than maintaining an active game sub to achieve.


Quote:
"Nice little bonuses that give you abilities/options completely new", on the other hand, are divisive and destructive; especially at this late date, new players aren't going to see a 6+ year reward as something "great to look forward to", but something they will never get, thus making veterans "better" than them.
You make a bunch of fairly perilous leaps of logic there, and I fear you didn't quite clear that last gorge.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
Hi, I'm someone.

My objection to veteran rewards is based on a simple principle: I am utterly against veterans getting abilities other players cannot replicate. Exclusive costumes, City Traveller, and this proposal would all qualify. (The permanent Temporary Powers do not qualify, however, as each one is available from some story arc that can be repeated in Ouroboros, so these bonuses are available to other players.)

I can see the value of Veteran Rewards in the form of "nice little bonuses so you don't have to do as much work now that you've been playing so long". "Nice little bonuses that give you abilities/options completely new", on the other hand, are divisive and destructive; especially at this late date, new players aren't going to see a 6+ year reward as something "great to look forward to", but something they will never get, thus making veterans "better" than them. You do not want new players feeling like they will never catch up and never get the good stuff if you keep adding bonuses like this to the end of the rewards cycle, and thus rewards need to be those that give a bonus, but not an insurmountable advantage.
I can almost see your point here Eiko-chan, and I am sure that there is some new players out there that agree with you. The problem I have with your argument though is that I have never run across a new player that had any problems with the Vet Rewards, except for the costume pieces. Every new player I have talked to about the Vet Reward System thought it was a very cool way to thank people for staying loyal to the game.

The only complaint I ever got from them was that the costume pieces should not be a part of the Vet System and I personally agree with that. A big part of what makes this game special is that you get to decide what your character looks like instead of your armor doing that for you. One of the companies big selling points for this game when I joined was that very fact. I never liked how certain costume pieces were inaccessible for that reason. The way I look at it, if you want people to be able to make the look of the toon they want, then don't put restrictions on it.

Mind you I have no problem with Capes at 20 and Auras at 30 or even unlock-able costume parts, because every player can get them on a toon with very little effort. The Vet System for costume pieces though requires you to spend a lot of money AND stick around for the costume pieces and I just never felt that was right. Granted, anyone who really likes the game probably will be doing both of those anyways, but it still doesn't feel right to me.

 

Posted

Can't wait to use it on my LvL 50 characters...

Google me at: 0118 999 881 999 119 7253

 

Posted

I've filed a bug report in the Technical/Bug forum and in-game reporting that the veteran power is not being granted properly when claimed.

I was in-game doing an ITF last night on my level 35 Warshade. On the first mission of the ITF I decided to claim the 78 month badge power in order to keep a healthy stock of XP bonus during the TF. I received a message I had claimed the power, but it became apparent that no power was actually added to my power listing or tray. Searching through the combat attribute power list proved that the power was not listed as accessible to the character.

- B.

Crey Threat Assessment: Bayne
Virtueverse: Bayne
The Defenders of Paragon

 

Posted

Just as a theory, or suggestion, but for those that don't like costume pieces being being part of vet rewards, what if all costume unlocks were instead a recipe that unlocked the items in question? So, I, for example, have been active X months and get the boxing themed gear. I click claim, and get a recipe that cost 100 Inf to craft and needs 2 common salvage. I craft it, and bang I have all the boxing stuff unlocked.

The reason I see this as an advantage is that someone will sell that recipe, and thus everyone has a chance to have these items, if they pay the market value. Would that satisfy some of those against the costume vet awards?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
Just as a theory, or suggestion, but for those that don't like costume pieces being being part of vet rewards, what if all costume unlocks were instead a recipe that unlocked the items in question? So, I, for example, have been active X months and get the boxing themed gear. I click claim, and get a recipe that cost 100 Inf to craft and needs 2 common salvage. I craft it, and bang I have all the boxing stuff unlocked.

The reason I see this as an advantage is that someone will sell that recipe, and thus everyone has a chance to have these items, if they pay the market value. Would that satisfy some of those against the costume vet awards?

People would create toons, flood the market with Vet reward recipes, delete toons and rinse and repeat.

The world and its dog would have Vet Reward items rendering the system pointless


"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Loving how crazy the devs have to get now to make up vet rewards.