Energy : Buff needed
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2010-10-16 19:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I'd rather have to deal with indiscriminate knockback then some Controller/Dom spamming an Aoe Immobilze.
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I'm talking specifically about the sort of people who will do something like fire off Explosive Blast at a target that's right by the Tanker/Scrapper/Brute/whatever, knocking all the mobs out of the radius of their survivability aura (RttC, Invincibility, what have you). I realize that falls under the "using powers indiscriminately" qualifier, but the point stands, and it's unfortunate that such use of powers gives all knockback a bad name, but such is life, I suppose.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Not sure how you knock something 'off of a wall' rather than into it unless it's not a wall but a ledge which would narrow down that little list of yours to 2 since 'etc' really doesn't count...
But if I'm shooting a guy(s) and knocking it(them) back, the 'knocking them away from melees' part really doesn't matter. The melees don't have a monopoly on what I can shoot at so I'll pick what I want and blast it to death...and it'll be on it's bum while I do it. If you *need* to nullify (see -KB immobilize) your KB just to get by, you're doing it wrong. I swear, it's like the game has become a melee's world, where everything must revolve around them...and this is coming from someone who mostly plays melees. Is it so damned hard to move every once in a while!? |
The "issue" with knockback is it's the only secondary effect that requires extra work to leverage effectively. If all knockback were changed to knockdown I don't think anyone would complain since it would have the same basic effect without having mobs fly all over the place.
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While knocdown is usualy as good or better, there are some cases where knockback is better. Knockback can be used to knock an opponent who's escaped a debuff patch back in, or force a bunch of guys who tend to prefer range into a tight cluster in a corner more effectivly than a tank can (at least if it's into a corner rather than around)
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Originally Posted by macskull
If all knockback were changed to knockdown I don't think anyone would complain since it would have the same basic effect without having mobs fly all over the place.
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
That...was a Herocon 09 exclusive easter egg. The powerset will not have doves associated with it.
Namely because you guys would want to color tint the damn doves, or make them hawks/ravens/flying sharks/etc and that's just a headache I do...not...want...to deal with. |
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*I* would complain. KB is fun, and that's what games are for.|
Originally Posted by macskull
If all knockback were changed to knockdown I don't think anyone would complain since it would have the same basic effect without having mobs fly all over the place.
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And yes, I like Peacebringers and Crane Kick from Martial Arts, too. I'll Crane Kick Tsoo off the top of the bridge in IP and follow them as they fall...good times.
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People complained when high level training enhancements were removed from the game.| If all knockback were changed to knockdown I don't think anyone would complain since it would have the same basic effect without having mobs fly all over the place. |
People complained when inherent stamina was announced.
I would hate to see all knockback turned into knockdown. The knockdown animation looks rubbish next to proper knockback.
Nothing needs to be changed.
If you want to play an energy blaster without knocking things back, play Radiation Emission. Its been proliferated to all ATs, can be recoloured, and more customisation is coming. What more do you want?
If you don't like knockback on teams, either play a Controller with a -KB AoE immobilise (Fire, Earth, Ice or Plant) or team with one, or don't play with Energy Blast users. Put it in your search comment that KB is not welcome.
Complaining that Energy Blasts knocks the targets around is like complaining that fire Blast doesn't have any mez powers. Its part of the set's design.
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This, and|
Originally Posted by Come Undone
While knocdown is usualy as good or better, there are some cases where knockback is better. Knockback can be used to knock an opponent who's escaped a debuff patch back in, or force a bunch of guys who tend to prefer range into a tight cluster in a corner more effectivly than a tank can (at least if it's into a corner rather than around)
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
*I* would complain. KB is fun, and that's what games are for.
And yes, I like Peacebringers and Crane Kick from Martial Arts, too. I'll Crane Kick Tsoo off the top of the bridge in IP and follow them as they fall...good times. |
The problem isn't knockback. It's idiots that don't want to learn how to play with it - and that's not just the person with the KB powerset.
I like energy blast and I like knockback. The set doesn't need a buff, or a nerf. It is fine the way it is.
There are plenty of other blast sets that don't do knockback. If you don't like knockback play with those.
While I like KB and the Energy blast set, I wouldn't mind a buff to the set 
A 75% chance of KB for both torrent and explosive (rather than the 60/50% we have now), a slight boost in Burst's range (50-60ft), a bit of a buff to Push's damage (close to Power Bolt) with a speedier animation. I'd like that...
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Agreed. That's why my /Nrg def is Storm/ also. And if you learn how to use all the KB in that combo, you can be a pretty damned effective spawn grouper for your team.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
This is why my FF defender is energy blast.
 I don't even *care* how effective it is, blowing everything to the four corners of the earth is one of the most awesome things ever.  (Of course, I do also use aim and power build up with it so that I actually do kill minions with it. ) |
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qft.
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Originally Posted by super_ready
taking hover completely transformed my energy blaster. Simply hover above whatever you're fighting, and hey presto, they get knocked "back"... Into the floor.
 it's also handy mitigation since you can usually stay out of melee range.If you can afford the spare slots, you'll want to put in some endurance reduction and/or some flight speed enhancements to make it a bit easier keeping it on in missions. |
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If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Explosive Blast is never, except in some very few cases, going to knock everything back that it hits (there are plenty of times where Torrent followed by Blast doesn't knock anything back for my En Blaster). And anything that is knocked back isn't hitting you anymore, so it shouldn't matter if it's out of your aura. |
Originally Posted by macskull
I'm talking specifically about the sort of people who will do something like fire off Explosive Blast at a target that's right by the Tanker/Scrapper/Brute/whatever, knocking all the mobs out of the radius of their survivability aura (RttC, Invincibility, what have you).
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And I say this as someone who plays a lot of melee, WP and Invuln Tanks among them. As long as the stuff is getting defeated, it's not a big deal. I switch targets and move on.
Someone with knockback in their powers should try to work with their teammates, of course. I try to be careful on that Energy blaster when paired win an Elec Control user, for instance (though a lot of times even then, the AOE damage and KB is needed/helps). I've cut back on KB when asked, like my AR Blaster's M80 attack followed by Full Auto. Even though it hurt the team more, as we weren't dropping mobs as fast and I was getting a lot more return fire. I figured that was okay to keep the team happy, just as long as I wasn't dying.
The problem was still with perspectives from certain other people.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
While I like KB and the Energy blast set, I wouldn't mind a buff to the set
A 75% chance of KB for both torrent and explosive (rather than the 60/50% we have now), a slight boost in Burst's range (50-60ft), a bit of a buff to Push's damage (close to Power Bolt) with a speedier animation. I'd like that... |
I dunno, I might not mind more of a chance for KB, but they fire pretty often now, and having it a little lower might make it better for cranky teammates, too.
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Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
The enrgy primary on the ranged sets fits a lot of my concept toons ....
But it is just a lame set IMO the knock-back is not welcome on any team the damage is alright at best and it is not aoe heavy ,so what is the point ? In comics an anime, guys who use some sort of enrgy blast do major damage an if they knock a guy thru a wall or building the guy is hurt . This does not translate well in CoX . I have made a lot of toons in this game an i would like to stop skipping enrgy blast . now some exceptional players have been abble to pimp this set out on blasters an those of you that have i think you are awsome ! but for the ones like me who just cant deal with a sub par set but like the concept . HELP! You can count the engergy / corruptors on one hand, an i dont even know if defenders even have enrgy blast as i have NEVER seen one and ive played this game for 4 years lol. |
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A person is an idiot because they realize that they can play Ice or Fire or Radiation or Psi and not have to "learn" to control a secondary effect that's putatively supposed to be helping you?|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The problem isn't knockback. It's idiots that don't want to learn how to play with it - and that's not just the person with the KB powerset.
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OK.
Personally, I don't feel the need to demonize either side. Some people enjoy the thrill of knocking opponents back and some others would prefer not to. That's all there is to it. The fact is that you don't have to learn to use the secondary effects of most other sets because they range from always useful to at least not detrimental. KB, whether you like it or not, can be deleterious to both a player and a team if used poorly. Now, I'm not nearly unreasonable enough to say that those occasions are that problematic. I've played a KB heavy character and indiscriminately used KB and been on a team when someone else was. It's not that big a deal. However, some people don't like it and they have every right to that belief.
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You know...on a AR/MM blaster I made once, all I did was knockback mobs. I used the ranged AOE with KB a lot.
No one complained.
Use some Energy Blast, and it's complaints.
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I don't mind if they keep the kb in energy blast . I am just saying a damage buff would make the set more attractive . the older players that have energy blasters mainly cuz they had no choice 5 years ago lol. but i rarely see new energy blasters ,corruptors i wont even mention defenders because just like bigfoot many people claim to have seen him i have not . just like the elusive /enrgy defender ( call in the moster quest guys or mabey the myth busters ). Keep the KB but... if i knock you 30 feet away i expect to do some damage. If I hurl a ball of energy in to a mob, guys need to die.. If energy did more damage than fire the knock back would not be an issue IMO well at least for me .. No aoe & No damage .... it is a mayo sandwitch with no ham.. sure if i was starving i could live off it but given a choice why would I ? I want to be Darksied not the Riddler .Thanos not stilt man . Goku not Mr Satan
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Fire, Ice, Electric, and Assault Rifle were all available at Launch.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
I do mind if they keep the kb in energy blast . I am just saying a damage buff would make the set more attractive . the older players that have energy blasters mainly cuz they had no choice 5 years ago lol.
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| If I hurl a ball of energy in to a mob, guys need to die.. |
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| If energy did more damage than fire the knock back would not be an issue IMO well at least for me .. |
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| No aoe & No damage |
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Refusing to learn to work with what's in the set you chose, yes.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
A person is an idiot because they realize that they can play Ice or Fire or Radiation or Psi and not have to "learn" to control a secondary effect that's putatively supposed to be helping you?
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Refusing to learn to work with a set someone else is playing, yes. And yes, that includes saying "Hey, could you aim *into* me instead of knocking things away, or direct that into a wall" if you're melee.
It doesn't take long for anyone with two brain cells to rub together to figure out "Oh, if I hit that, it has a good chance of going back that way. Maybe I should pay attention to what I'm doing and act accordingly."
Refusing to do that, or just whining that "omg that set has knockback it's ebil and must be nerfed?" Yes, that lands solidly in the "idiot" pile.
It's not, despite what you're trying to do here, about "Other sets have other effects," so don't try twisting it that way. It's about not bothering to use the effects of the set you chose effectively.
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Then don't play it. I'll keep my soft control and fun knockback.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
I do mind if they keep the kb in energy blast
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| I am just saying a damage buff would make the set more attractive . |
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| the older players that have energy blasters mainly cuz they had no choice 5 years ago lol. |
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| but i rarely see new energy blasters ,corruptors i wont even mention defenders because just like bigfoot many people claim to have seen him i have not . |
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| just like the elusive /enrgy defender ( call in the moster quest guys or mabey the myth busters ). |
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| Keep the KB but... if i knock you 30 feet away i expect to do some damage. |
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| If I hurl a ball of energy in to a mob, guys need to die. |
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| If energy did more damage than fire the knock back would not be an issue IMO well at least for me |
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| .. No aoe & No damage |
And they definitely do damage. Yes, even as a defender.
Perhaps you should learn what you're talking about before complaining.
Wow!! my feelings are hurt lol . why do i have to be all kinds of idiots just cuz i want a damage buff( im looking at you memphis bill ! ) i am not complaining i am just saying. I complain about the nerfs to my brute ! if you want to be Mr. KB i dont kill nothing on your teams go right ahead
but dont rip someone a new one . just for posting something u dont agree with! I dont play energy blast but I would like to .
I am not mad or upset or anything I know full well how to play an how to handle kb on a team . ( I have a mind /energy dom )
I'm just starting a frendly topic no malice intended. You dont gotta rage quote me . " GRRRRRRRR!!you dont like energy blast %$&# you stop playing the game an go die redd rumm !!!!!! I Hate you !!!!" lol
I take into acount all the replies to my post an im hopeing it will change my op so i can go ahead with the concept toon i want to make like i said i rarely see any new toons with energy blast all the ones i know are vets " i know at the start of this game you had more ranged choices than energy
but in this game alting is what we do, so you 50 a fire blaster ,you 50 your ice you 50 a sonic ect... so im sorry if i made some one mad an thank you all who had a positive arguement for me ,very good arguements it does make me want to take a second look at the set ( damage buff wont hurt tho )
Some Maps penalize KB more then others. Troll caves and science lab hallways are the worst, for me. No angles in the geometry of significant size to use as a net to catch large groups of mobs.
On the subject of turning all knockback to knockdown, since that idea was floated earlier today I played my Eng/Strom corrupter and I re-remembered Gale has 2 ticks of Knockback so in an all knockdown universe Gale would have 2 ticks of knockdown. Lots of Trollers, Corrs and MMs would be super happy.
Not that I want that to happen, good golly I just like knockback.
Energy is fine, please, don't change it.
No one pays attention to me, cause I listen to the voices in my head.
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I doubt they would change the set . I just wanted a damge buff. I got a concept for a sonic/enrgy corruptor I want to make and my reasons ,(very selfish i can admit that ).. Iwant to do uber damage and I have noticed that sometimes posts on the forums get sets some love from the devs .|
Originally Posted by Psycho_Sarah
Energy is fine, please, don't change it.
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Now there is like 0 chance the kb will be removed from a whole set but things like damage,recharge an end costs get changed all the time . so i figured why not ask for a damage buff.
Do you mean Energy/Sonic Corruptor? I actually teamed with a pair of Corruptors for a while on one of my Stalkers in the 35-42 range (or maybe it was 22-30something). Anyway, One was a Sonic/Kinetic and the other was an Energy/Sonic. Perhaps other factors were at hand, but they seemed pretty close in damage, but the Energy/Sonic being more survivable. Not to mention /sonic felt like it helped more even against all those Arachnos. It was a bloodfest with a good few deaths but the Energy/Sonic usually lasted longer.
I'd bet you'd do more damage with /Kinetics but yeah, you'll probably die faster too. I don't see why you can't do huge damage with an Energy/Sonic. You've got strong ST attacks, strong mitigation and a ST debuff to add to your attack string while mopping up those targets. Not to mention your support is passive so just set up the rings, toggle on your auras and blast away.
Thinking about it, I'm curious how the combo plays out. As is, the only Energy blast characters I have are a FF/Energy defender which isn't bad but kinda not my thing...and an Energy/Fire Blaster which plays nicely as it has more AoE to supplement the AoEs in /Fire while Energy/ has the mitigation that /Fire lacks. I've got a Mind/Energy dom but am waiting to delete it to replace with an Illusion/Energy dom whenever that's proliferated.
Anyway, OP, I think you'd be better asking for build advice rather than requesting the set be buffed. Energy Blast is really awesome, especially for sets/ATs without much mitigation backing them.
But if I'm shooting a guy(s) and knocking it(them) back, the 'knocking them away from melees' part really doesn't matter. The melees don't have a monopoly on what I can shoot at so I'll pick what I want and blast it to death...and it'll be on it's bum while I do it.
If you *need* to nullify (see -KB immobilize) your KB just to get by, you're doing it wrong.
I swear, it's like the game has become a melee's world, where everything must revolve around them...and this is coming from someone who mostly plays melees. Is it so damned hard to move every once in a while!?