Energy : Buff needed

Ooooookay. Sure, totally made sense there.

And some recharge quickly.

Recharge time can be improved, as can endurance cost.

Nor do I eschew the use of single-target attacks. But in any situation where there's more than one foe, or I find the secondary effect(s) of my AoEs/cones more useful than straight damage output, I use my AoEs/cones. If I can, say, keep a boss Immobilized by popping him with TT every time it's up, then I do it. If I can keep a boss on his back by popping Energy Torrent and Explosive Blast every time they're up, I do it. My AoEs/cones will recharge, my endurance will fill back up, I have no reason, at all, not to use my AoEs/cones freely.

So you jumped into this thread to protest the change or removal of KB not because you believe it would be detrimental to the game and the enjoyment of players in general, but because you just don't want one of your toys taken away. It's perfectly okay, as far as you're concerned, for you to be the one doing things which might annoy others or interfere with their activities, but it's not okay for anyone else to do it when you're the one who might be the "victim".

And you accuse me of eroding support for KB? Hypocritical much?

You need to step back and think about everything you just said. Does it really matter if a Storm controller blew everything away from your tank? No-one's taking damage, so who cares how the mitigation was accomplished? Does it any difference at all who's defeating critters if the team is gaining XP at the same rate as it would if it were run the way you suggest it should be run? Are you so terrified of getting a little debt (which typically disappears within one to three spawns when playing with a large team) that you can't abide anyone trying something nonstandard or deviating from "the plan"? Or are you just one of the handful of people left who still believe this game is "hard"?

Instead of pitching a melodramatic hissy fit because you might not be in complete control of every situation, try adapting. Improvising. Being flexible. Being versatile.

I find it highly unlikely that the developers would increase critter HP across the board and grant everything resistance to or protection from KB simply because they changed KB to KD. Given that we've already had enemies added with the capability to resist or ignore KB (Cimeroran Traitor lieutenants with their PBAoE status protection power, for instance), and nothing's changed elsewhere, I consider your conclusion to be suspect. You'll have to show me that the sky is falling before I believe it, Chicken Little.

KB interrupts critter TP, and Sorcerers on their backs heal 0 points of damage. Perfect situation to spam those KB AoEs.

Like the mindless one-star show, me me me mentality you've been espousing when you talk about playing your tank?

You know, I did that in I4, when I was leveling up my tank. Gave orders, made people play the way I thought they should to enable me to "do my job"... Then I realized what an ******* I was for doing it and made myself stop. And the game didn't get any harder. Funny, that.

Then let them die. If someone is doing something and it isn't working, let them learn the lesson. The worst that can happen is that you get some debt if they come running back to you and drag half a map with them. So what? You don't even have to pay that debt off if you don't want to, the Patroller/Criminal day job will do it for you. And the team will come together when it's ready. The servers won't shut down tomorrow if a team didn't mesh in the first mission, or the second, or the tenth, or not at all.

But don't just yank the leash and start giving orders when someone does something that you didn't think of or don't like because it's not part of "the plan". People who try different things have managed to surprise and impress the developers with unexpected and interesting ways to approach problems, and the developers appreciate them for that ingenuity and creativity. You might learn something from them, if you give them half a chance. At the very least, you'll learn one more thing that doesn't work. How many ways did Thomas Edison learn how not to make a light bulb before he learned the way that did work? Same concept here, we're making light bulbs when we try different things in this game. If we don't learn what doesn't work, we're far less likely to figure out what does.

It's already on the tracks, Leo. There's no turning it around, it's a one way trip.

Let me make a comparison for you. In another game, you'd spend up to three hours trying to put together a group of five to twenty random people, spend another three hours on a small map, beating on one thing at a time, die over and over again if anyone made the tiniest mistake in following a scripted routine... and walk out to discover that not only did you not get the reward you were hoping for because either it didn't drop or someone else rolled higher than you when it did drop, but you also have to spend more than you earned to repair your gear. That's not an uncommon scenario in another game.

We don't have any of that here. Teams can be assembled quickly and easily, maps can be cleared in minutes, there's no gear to be damaged or repaired and you're guaranteed the same reward that everyone else gets (presuming that your connection is stable, of course). The absolute worst thing that can happen to you here is that you get some debt... and the game pays it off for you if you log out without working it off. And the absolute hardest content in this game is a cakewalk that requires no more communication or coordination than can be achieved through a few hotkeyed chat messages.

So relax. Drink some decaf or something. If someone goes off and aggros a spawn, let it go. If someone drags a spawn back to you, deal with it and forget it. If you end up with debt, check your badge progress. If someone Gales an entire room, laugh. Run away, but laugh while you're running. None of these things are the worst that could happen in a game, in this game, or even in that particular hour of your life. And nothing that happens in this game is so bad that it should make you behave as anything less than a reasonable, calm adult. **** happens, you move on.

Back on the original topic, I still think Energy Blast is just dandy exactly the way it is now.

Mutually exclusive situations. If you park yourself, you're not just firing freely because you're knocking enemies out of range of your attacks. If you're firing freely, you're not parked because you have to chase those enemies.

The net effect is still the same. KBed enemies deal 0 damage to everyone, and they deal that 0 damage to everyone for longer periods than KDed enemies.

And who also have status protection powers which allow them to ignore status effects, thus ensuring that they're free to move back into melee range if and when things are knocked away from them. "I can't move" typically isn't a valid excuse for melee ATs to avoid closing to melee range, and when circumstances do dictate that they really can't move, then they should be grateful to have some KB to give them a chance to get a handle on things.

KB affects the user much as it does everyone else. An Energy blaster deals no damage to anything knocked out of range of his/her attacks. The difference is that the user adapts to it, via use of W, rather than complaining about it.

I'm not a very argumentative person, but I'd just like to say that I can pretty much assure you that even if nobody says anything about it, there's a lot of people that don't like kb. I'm pretty much positive that I have never once said a word to anybody that's used kb powers on my teams. I don't think I have the right to tell somebody else how they should play, so I don't.

Honestly, for the most part I find people with kb powers to do an "exceptable" level of kb (couldn't think of a better word to use). However, like you I also am almost always on PUGs, and I've been on tons of teams where the kb absolutely kills my fun, as well as the fun of other people on the team. This is actually more of an issue with peacebringers with solar flare from my experience than energy users, but I've had my fair share of energy players that couldn't care less if the group is scattered all over the place.

Btw, (not directed at anybody specific) for the ones saying the kb is always giving mitigation, are you actually sure about that? I can pretty much guarantee the overall mitigation becomes worse from the kb if you are grouped with a dominator/controller. If the group is stunned/held/confused then the kb is actually giving the mobs more of a chance to fight back because they are probably going to take less dmg during this time. If the group is on an ice slick with arctic air effecting them or in a static field with conductive aura draining them, the kb allows the mob to get away from the better controlled situation. Like I said earlier, I usually find kb to be fine, but that's just something to think about.

Yes, I am sure IME. You are describing different situations and the use of KB changes.

For example, my /storm MM can solo +4/+8. And I use gale to KB the mobs, even after using the other powers. I still finish the missions.

But now you bring up group situations. If the controller has an immob that can stop KB, then it is no issue to use it. The mobs are not going anywhere. But I can use KB to mitigate as needed on stray mobs or whatever. Back to my MM again, do I really need to use gale now if the mobs are all held? No. Do I use it of there are too many and the controller (or dom) didn't stop all of the mobs and gale can KB them back off the "squishies"? Absolutely. This goes with the other situations. It depends if the team is in control (no pun ) or over their heads.

I will add that KB will have mitigation, but it may not be the best overall and learning how to use it adds to that mitigation in a team.

If I have to be hypocritical for people to stop being arrogant ***es and stop thinking about only their enjoyment, then so be it. I’m not protesting against the change only because it may go against the enjoyment of some players but also because it’s going down the slippery slope of min/max elitism. It’s a change only to exploit enemy AI in the least round-about way and *will* end up being enforced on teams.

No, not because KB is detrimental (it’s not, it provides great mitigation) but simply because it’s viewed as anti-AoE and anything that might go against that current will ultimately go by the wayside. So your psi blasters, MA scrappers, EM brutes, claws stalkers, and anything else primarily single target focused will be put on the bench for AoE oriented tactics.

It’s not my Tankers you have to worry about. I’m perfectly fine capitalizing on the mitigation my teammates provide. It’s the *other* people that *I’m* concerned about.

If you didn’t know, lots of people have thin skin. They get irritated by so much as a looping sound of a toggle or the flash of one of their electric control powers being too bright. While a few instances of clashing may not be an issue, outright disregarding the enjoyment of other players on your team is SELFISH. If one or more of your teammates don’t like a particular thing, the idea isn’t to shove it in their face until they don’t care.

For instance, I do NOT like teaming with Masterminds. I can handle teaming with 1…maybe 2, but if the team lead invites a 3rd or I join and its full of MMs, I will politely leave. And I tell leads this when I join and see a MM on the roster, that if they invite more than 2 MM, I’m going to have to withdraw from the team. By your logic, if more MMs will make the team work then screw me and just invite more. I’ll drop and make more room for MMs. Win win. But you could have been considerate of me and picked up a controller or just a Tanker or something not as intrusive as an extra 5+ NPCs clogging an office map.

Okay, just get out of my face and stop putting words in peoples mouth because you don’t know how to read (seriously, learn to read...I'm dead serious, you need to work on that reading comprehension). Just go off to your Lumiverse or whatever retarded duck shtick you do on the boards.

A "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy. Not a "fallacy" like internet people sometimes use it to mean simply "not true," but the actual name of a classical logical error.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...ery-slope.html

I'm not going to make a strong judgment about whether what the rest of what you're saying here is likely or unlikely to come true, but in calling your assertions a "slippery slope" you are actually strongly implying your argument doesn't work. I'm going to leave the rest of the statement about elitism and the like alone because it's simply offensive.

EDIT: Ok that was a little too strongly worded. My point was supposed to be that in calling people who don't like knockback "elitists" or implying they are in league with them, you make it difficult to respond. I take responsibility for the way I originally worded it, so I'll leave it up. A little (maybe a lot) more discipline and proof reading before hitting the Post button would behoove me.

How? Without them saying it, the only way you can be "pretty sure" is either assuming everyone's exactly like you - which is one hell of an assumption - or claiming you're psychic.

Are you claiming to be psychic?

... which, as has been stated *multiple* times, is a case of "not paying attention to what you do" as opposed to knockback. The same holds true for Hurricane, Force bubble, Repel - even AOE Immobs (I've seen people just spam them, spreading out what would have been a nice, tight pull onto, say, an ice patch or around a tank into a long line of immobed enemies.)

.... uh... yeah. As someone who plays beaucoup controllers and doms, how do you figure that? KB - any damage - breaks sleep. Stun? No. Holds? No. Confuses? No. They are going to be taking damage from a higher-damage AT.

So... how are they taking less damage, or being given more of a chance to fight back?

Not if (a) the mob being KB'd gets KB'd INTO/ONTO the control patch, or (b) takes damage, then takes more damage (likely from the same source) as they're getting KB'd and dies.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Well, simply having the ability to read will confirm my statement. There's enough posts on these forums over the years that says a lot of people don't like kb. I said nothing more than that. I never said anything like everybody, most, majority, or anything like that. For example, if there's a 1000 people that don't like something, but there's 10000 people, to me that's a lot of people even if it's not a very big percentage. It seems like you're trying to imply that I'm saying that everybody on a team hates kb even if they don't say it, which is in no way what I said. Do I think that there's a lot of people that don't like kb and never say anything to the team about it? Sure. Do I know this as a fact? Not really and I never said I did. Have I see plenty of people quit teams because of kb? Sure. Do I know it's because of the kb that they "have to go"? Not always, no, but I've had several people send me a tell not long after leaving and ask if I want to join their new team and they end up saying it was the kb that caused them to leave.

I agree with this. I also said most of the time I have no problem with it.

Just to let you know, since you apparently don't, blasters are not the only AT that has energy blast. Defenders and corrupters both have it and neither are a higher-damage AT than dominators. Doms have it to, but not with the aoes that imo cause the problems.

Now, as far as how/why a mob will have more of a chance to fight back when KBed, I actually can't see how it's not common sense, but I guess I'll try to dumb it down. Status effects do not have an infinite duration, and believe it or not, not everybody gets on steam rolling teams or have a perma dom with them to increase the duration. So for the teams that take a little bit to kill each group, it's very possible/likely that the stun/hold will not last the entire fight. Guess what, if stuff gets KBed away while stunned or held, they won't be returning to the group until it's over and will not be taking the aoe dmg the rest of the group is. This gives them more time for the effects to fade and gives them a chance to fight back.

The only sleep I mentioned was static field, which frequently causes stuff to go back to sleep after taking dmg. If that was all that static field did though, it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is. Even if they are not slept, run/jump/fly speed and recharge is debuffed, it helps sap the mob, and it gives endurance to the players in the patch. So yes, I would also say knocking them out of it will give them a better chance of fighting back.

Well yeah, but last time I checked energy blast doesn't have a reliable way of doing kb to more than one target. And yes, if something takes enough dmg it will die.

I guess I should have tried stating my argument with another word >_>

But what I'm trying to say isn't a logical error. Players want to dictate the use of KB, they also want to dictate mobs running as well as raising target caps. While each change has its merits as QoL issues, it's just lining up the ducks in a row.

You think farming is kinda popular now? Or that some sets are downplayed as 'pretty but less effective'?

Well, it's still giving elitist mentality more of a foothold. You may not be siding with them and simply want to not KB things sometimes, but it's still helping them. This is why I'm not outright trashing on the idea and why I'm offering up other solutions. I don't want people to hate KB, this is why I proposed adding more enemies that might self-mitigate it or maybe where KB is 'good' in that situation.

Is the issue so simple that we need to look for the easiest solution? IMO, even if the problem seems simple, just aiming for the theoretically easiest way to solve it might affect other things that may be harder to work around.

Right. Because everyone posts about every opinion they have, positive or negative, and everyone in game posts on the forum, so reading through forum posts is the PERFECT way to gauge opinions on everything, accurately!

If that were the case, I'd never buy a product from anyone, because *people post to ***** about things they don't like* FAR more than they just hop on to say "Hey, just so you know, I liked XYZ."

So people that don't like KB say things, and people that don't like it don't say anything - but hey, you don't want to give the people that DO like it the same courtesy.

Better pay attention to who you're actually replying to before you make utterly moronic statements such as this. Especially when you make them to someone who's pointed out, multiple times, having every AT to 50, having well over 200 characters on two accounts. Think I MIGHT, POSSIBLY, be somewhat familiar with the powersets available?

Bad wording on my part. Their attacks will be doing more damage than the controls you're worried about.

It appears I have to dumb this down for you.

If I hit a mob with an attack doing KB, it does nothing to any status effect (other than sleep. They may get an attack off with Fear, but if I'm not in range, no.)

They take damage.

They do not lose the status effect that is applied to them.

If they ARE at the end of the status effect's time, they'll STILL have to get up and move back into range - at which point they're probably STILL targeted by the person using the KB attack, and are STILL taking damage.

Simple enough for even you to understand?

Point out where I even implied that that was the case I was talking about.

But not likely past the single-digit levels, unless you're (a) dealing with a resistant group or (b) holding a boss, at which point their minions are wiped out and everyone can concentrate on them.

So, wait, you try to take me to task for "assuming," supposedly, that everyone's buffed, has a permadom, or is on a steamrolling team, but you're fine "assuming" there's a ton of AOE flying around. Right.

Why don't you also *assume,* genius, that the target that's been hit by the attack doing the KB is *still being attacked and likely being defeated at the same time?*

Or is that too much common sense for you?

Except, of course, that they're likely STILL BEING ATTACKED. Even if the effects wear out and they *aren't,* they've got to recover from being knocked back (not down, back takes longer,) get up, and get back into range. And unless everyone's gone AFK, they're getting no support from the rest of the spawn.

Yeah, right. Because, of course, they're not having anything else done to them. They take no damage whatsoever. They're not being attacked any more...

Oh, wait, you mean they ARE? Imagine that.

And of COURSE all KB, no matter what direction it comes from, does nothing but knock mobs OUT of any AOE. Yep. Nobody has ever managed to knock someone back INTO it. Nope. Never.

So, recapping:

(a) The mob gets KB'd into the control/debuff patch. They take damage and die. "Ebil KB!" Wait, no, useful KB.

(b) The mob DOESN't get KB'd. They take damage. They die.

... and the problem is what again? That they die in a slightly different location? They didn't die from YOUR AOE? Oh no.

I can only assume that the only people you've played with did nothing but slot their powers with 3 acc/3 KB and randomly change targets between every single shot the way you talk.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Or. The player is using Dual Pistols and turns the knockback off when they don't want to do it. A shocking exploit, that, according to some posters.

I don't know. From the look of it you have over 23,000 message board posts but I don't think talking to people is one of your strengths.

You've been on a soapbox, ranting about AoEs being inappropriate for frequent use and insisting that players should focus on single-target attacks, and now you're saying that you don't like min/max elitism? How are you any less guilty of that behavior when you're attempting to argue that AoEs shouldn't be used as often as they're available because they have greater endurance costs, longer recharge times and lower damage potential? It's like complaining about pollution and global warming while you're roaring down the highway in a Hummer with an oil leak.

That's exactly what I mean when I accuse you of hypocrisy, and it's exactly the wrong kind of "support" to bring to an argument about KB. You insist that KB is fine in one post, then insist that it's a horrible thing in the next if it's in a power that you personally dislike. You go ballistic over talk of AoE usage in situations with fewer than X enemies, thereby endorsing min/maxing and attempting to back up your statements with commentary on efficiency and DPS, but you turn around in your next response and proclaim min/maxing as elitist behavior and say that you don't want to see it happening.

You aren't helping. And the only one being arrogant here is you. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you're more intelligent than this, and not usually this inflexible and foolish. Stop it.

KB/KD doesn't exploit AI in any way. Quite the opposite, in fact, as there are a number of bugs with KB/KD which allow enemies to do certain things they shouldn't be capable of doing.

It might, it might not. I don't want to take any chances, but since I've never seen anyone enforce "defenders are healers", "you must have a travel power" or any other supposed requirements for teams, I won't lose any sleep worrying about it.

If that were going to happen, it would have occurred so long ago that we wouldn't be discussing it now.

You don't say.

Or by someone using an AoE on a lone enemy?

"Selfish" would be demanding a change to an entire powerset, which could affect tens of thousands of players, to satisfy a much smaller number of players.

"Selfish" is throwing a temper tantrum because you don't want to change targets or interrupt your mindless mashing of number keys to tap the W key.

"Selfish" is freaking out because a few foes were knocked out of your PBAoE, ignoring the fact that the end result is the same (defeated foes, safe team).

"Selfish" is forgetting that the team is just that, a team, not a tank/brute/scrapper and his/her entourage.

"Selfish" is expecting everyone else on the team to actively work to make you happy, rather than you trying to work with the team to find a satisfactory medium.

"Selfish" is getting angry about KB, but never doing anything to deal with the "problem", such as discussing it with the person doing the KB or looking for ways to deal with it yourself.

Players who would treat Energy Blast users in those kinds of ways are more selfish than the Energy Blast user because those other players are deliberately, willingly and knowingly placing themselves above all others. An Energy Blast user just doing his/her thing, shooting stuff, might be careless or inattentive, but that doesn't make him/her selfish any more than it makes the scrapper who one-shotted a foe (thereby forcing someone else to switch targets, lose anchor, etc.) selfish.

The exception is the KB user who deliberately misuses his/her KB to irritate, annoy and frustrate teammates, but let's be honest here, that sort of behavior isn't restricted to KB users. Anyone, with any powerset or range of abilities, can be a jerk.

Nor would altering the behavior and function of an entire powerset be warranted.

You were insisting that people needed to coordinate and develop tactics while teamed.

I pointed out that "we don't need five players beating on one enemy for ten minutes, coordinating efforts to ensure that we're following the scripted routine for the particular foe in question."

You responded with, "And this is the direction the game would head to if we could straight out turn off KB.", implying that the developers would increase enemy HP and design more gimmicky AI scripts in response to changing KB to KD. Your own comment just two paragraphs after that reinforced that you did not want to see enemy HP drastically increased and scripted routines which required multiple players executing precise actions with split-second timing.

My reply addressed that implied increase in HP and difficulty. So if there was a communication failure, it was at your end, not mine, and attacking me won't make it any clearer.

Ah, good, the mature, adult, intelligent response I was hoping for and knew you were capable of delivering. So glad to see that you've managed to retain your composure and replied with grace, dignity and wit.

I think what you're describing as "selfish" is actually just a "a source of conflict." It is not selfish, to me, for someone to want to set up deliberate fighting strategies. Knockback doesn't fit into the way many people want to approach the game. They see it as a penalty rather than an advantage, and personally I have to agree with them to an extent (as many of the posters here, albiet accidentally, when they complain that people "just want to fight bowling pins" and the like). Thinking that randomized knockback attached to a blast set kind of sucks is not a selfish opinion in and of itself.

Funniest thing in this thread. "Many people" could mean anything unless you have real numbers.

The statement wasn't a contest, an election, or a public opinion poll. The fact is, there is some number of people who don't like randomized knockback in Energy Blast. If you want to quibble over whether that is "some," "many," "a lot," "a few," or "one person" it really doesn't change a thing about whether they think teammates with Energy Blast add or subtract from their game experience.

Right, it doesn't matter. KB is fine then. Thanks for proving that.

You seem to have an issue with proving me "wrong" personally that transcends the current debate. I'm kind of an --- so I can see why that might be a valid motive. However I'll stand by the opinion that there is no way to be wrong about a statement that there are some number of people who don't like knockback. If there weren't, there'd be no thread, no one to argue with, and nothing to discuss.

I'm going to stop replying to you now because what you and I are engaging in at this point is basically he said/she said. I can tell from the nature of the conversation though that we'd probably get along great under different circumstances. Hopefully we'll meet on friendlier terms next time.

Back it up.

What *I* see is concern - quite valid, given some of my experiences with Defenders, primarily - that if that "option" becomes available, there are those that will DEMAND you use it, and kick you if you don't... even without finding out that, yes, you DO know how to use it to the benefit of the team.

And there are plenty here who don't seem to get that, yes, you CAN KB into taunt auras/AOE patches/etc, or seem to think that absolutely every KB-enabled power is an AOE that will send the entire map scattering from one side of IP to the other, even if you used it in Atlas.

And some of them seem determined to refuse to accept that that's not the case.

So, you'll just have to excuse me if I don't want my playstyle nerfed. Yes, I *have* changed peoples' minds on knockback use. And repel. And Telekenesis. AOE immobilizes. And other "ZOMG so horrible, team unfriendly, nobody uses them right, they should be nerfed" powers. How? *By using them in ways that benefit the team.* Proper targeting, Working WITH the team instead of treating it as 2-8 soloists.

You don't know me very well. And, frankly, that's fine with me.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Probably not. You make absolutely no sense. Proving you wrong after I was replying to EG then you start off on DP? Oooookay. Whatever you are on about.

And claiming "many players". That proves that no game will ever be perfect. Players will like X while other Players like Y, and so forth. You said it yourself with the "many" - as in "some," "many," "a lot," "a few," or "one person". There will always be complaining, so there is no issue to be fixed.

Although I think you seriously need to reevaluate your definition of selfish...I find it *HILARIOUS* that every point you bring up with that portion of your post is exactly the viewpoint I've been expressing the whole time.



Granted. When I said "and this is the direction the game would head", I was talking about the "no one needs to communicate in this game" part. That's fine, but as the game progresses in age, less need to communicate will ultimately shift to 'no need to communicate'. I wasn't speaking on the HP or difficulty of NPCs, just the communication and tactics would become so simplistic (is that even possible in this game ) as to be non-existence. It'll just devolve into 'use AoE 1', 'use AoE 2', 'repeat'.

KB spices that up well and makes everyone safer.

Breaking my own rule. I'm sorry you find me incoherent. I don't feel I've been unclear, but in case added clarity would mollify the conflict:

1) I think knockback looks amazing, is fun to do, and can be useful.

2) However I do think its unclear whether knockback functions as a bonus or a penalty when it is tied to multiple blast powers, because it does not give the player enough control.

3) The Dual Pistols power set is a place where I think knockback works well, because it puts that control in the hands of the player and ensures it is always a bonus.

4) I think that as a knockback specialist set Energy Blast would benefit from a similar mechanic, which did not exist when the set was originally created.

5) I think that if Energy Blast does not get said toggle, that I'll just go on not playing it. Also, while I personally don't avoid inviting Energy Blast characters, I don't think folks who don't want to are bad players or "selfish."

Now, what's clear is everyone in this discussion is pretty passionate about this topic. I know I came at you at first full tilt, and that was a mistake. There are many people on both sides of the debate. I don't know which groups constitutes the majority, but that doesn't really matter, because we're not all on a single team trying to figure that out. Many people like knockback. Many people do not. I don't think that's controversial, as these recurrent threads demonstrate.

Why would Energy Blast get a swap ammo style power? You keep talking like the sole purpose of Dual Pistols having Swap Ammo is to remove the KB when they want, but... that's not the case. Each of the ammo types offers a different benefit that the Dual Pistols user can leverage. You can argue whether each one has a big enough benefit or not (personally, Standard and Fire are the only ones of use for my Blaster), but being able to turn off KB when they want just to make teammates happy isn't really the reason Swap Ammo works as it does.

Maybe that's not what you are driving at, but it seems like it from your posts on the subject.

Wanted to also reply to this in particular: "Also, while I personally don't avoid inviting Energy Blast characters, I don't think folks who don't want to are bad players or "selfish.""

Not inviting someone to your team based on anything like AT or powerset is a problem to me. It can make sense for some encounters (like "Master of" TF attempts) to ask for certain combinations, but anything else in the game doesn't call for such a distinction. All such behavior shows is an unwillingness to adapt, have fun, or to look down on someone else's fun.

Now, I'm not saying you can't avoid certain players if they have shown they won't play along well or don't use powers well (I do have a few 1-starred people that I avoid after bad encounters with them on teams), but making a decision based solely on a character's powerset or AT is not a good thing.