LF Most Debilitating End Drainer w/ DMG & Team Support
By
beyeajus,
Posted on: 2010-10-04 19:36 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Ive played an Elec/Elec Blaster and Kin/Elec Defender to 50, and the defender was a far better sapper due to the range on Transference - until they're sapped you dont want them too close. Two PBAoE's (one with a long animation) was often too risky for the Blaster.
So you're off to a good start choosing those sets. I didn't take Power Sink on my defender, but I think it will help a lot.
You won't be able to take team-sized alphas with just sapping as mitigation. You'll be most effective going in after the initial volley is unloaded on a tank, brute or other alpha soaker and then shutting everyone down.
Solo, I use to take on maybe six orange minions and a lieutenant/boss, using Transference to shut down the big guy and crossing my fingers and using Transfusion to stay alive for the second Short Circuit. It never felt safe though.
The one alternative build for sapping these days is Electrical Control. It doesn't have any -Recovery, but Conductive Aura will often stop enemies from attacking on my new-ish Elec/Elec Dom. Of course, with Controller/Dominator level control, your hardly need it.
In summary, any sapping build means struggling up hill a little due to the way the powers are set up. But Kinetics/Electrical blast are the best combo I've found.
Well, I will tell you my experience. I have a elec/kin/mu corr. I can jump into a mob of even level and hit power sink then short circuit and drain the entire mob. Keeping their end down with ball lightning and another short circuit if necessary.
Problem is you will need a brute or tank to hold aggro. You will piss a lot of them off, and no matter what you do, they will get a few shots off. Maybe not enough to kill you right away but a few. I will usually hit my heal after my cycle for good measure.
Now if you take on +2, you will not completely drain them all and boy will they be pissed at you.
Elec/thermal/soul
My current sapper project is a elec/elec/mu Dominator. Just thought I'd toss that in there with all the corruptor talk going on, lol. Elec/Kin is classic sapping, but that's a good one if you like doms.
Elec/Energy/Mu Dominator
Wow. I never knew that Dominator Power Boost gave +98% End Drain, whereas Blaster Power Boost now only gives 78% after the recent-ish nerf to it.
I'd tried an Elec/Energy Blaster post-nerf and found it an exercise in frustration, since Power Boosted slotted Short Circuit would stop just short of draining most mobs.
However, an Elec/Energy/Mu Dom would still have no AoE -recovery, would they?
I started a praetorian Electric Control/Kinetic Controller. I look forward to the sapping ability in that combo.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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They have an AoE -end, -recov aura.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
However, an Elec/Energy/Mu Dom would still have no AoE -recovery, would they?
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This is my choice too. The nice bit is that you have the tools to keep them busy while your sapping kicks in. An always-up pulse AOE Sleep patch, holds, chained confuse, some stuns in the secondary and chained knockdown / knockback (used right you can keep an EB on their backs most of of the time). Alphas are no problem. Lots of layered control.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Elec/Energy/Mu Dominator
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Decent single target damage as well for picking on Lieuts and bosses.
Powerboost makes it incredibly quick for the drain to fully take effect.
Elec / MM blaster, because the most effective sapper doesn't concentrate on -end they concentrate on -recovery...
Ball Lightning, SC, and Drainpsyche will sap loads...
On that note I also tried, Cold/Elec/Elec Defender because HeatLoss, BL, SC and PowerSink is also very effective.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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According to the in-game power details, Power Boost for dominators is only +66% for Endurance Modification...and everything else, if I remember correctly.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Wow. I never knew that Dominator Power Boost gave +98% End Drain, whereas Blaster Power Boost now only gives 78% after the recent-ish nerf to it.
I'd tried an Elec/Energy Blaster post-nerf and found it an exercise in frustration, since Power Boosted slotted Short Circuit would stop just short of draining most mobs. However, an Elec/Energy/Mu Dom would still have no AoE -recovery, would they? |
EDIT - Ok, I just went back in and noticed my slider was set to level 1. At level 50, it's showing 98.34%. Whew, glad I caught that!
7+ year vet with too many alts to list...
Can elec armor be an effective sapper set? It won't be as fast as a defender, but you don't have to be since you are a scrapper/brute/tank.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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I've got a level 43 Electrical/Electrical Brute that works fairly well. Jump in with Lightning Field running, hit Power Sink and everything is drained to about 20% with four-slotted Efficacy Adaptor. They quickly go to zero by using their attacks. If you hammer on a boss you can keep the boss completely drained and unable to attack from the -end on your attacks and Lightning Field. The minions and LTs attack you at a reduced rate, but they occasionally regain enough to use some attacks.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Can elec armor be an effective sapper set? It won't be as fast as a defender, but you don't have to be since you are a scrapper/brute/tank.
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I have Lightning Field slotted for damage, accuracy and end reduction; if you were to slot it for end mod instead it looks like it will drain almost 3 end/sec. By comparison, Conductive Aura looks like it'll drain 10 end/sec. If your average mob has the same recovery as a character without Stamina (1.67/sec), Lightning Field will eventually be able to eventually drain the minions to zero and keep them there. However, with all the AoEs from Electrical Melee (especially when you use Lightning Rod with Fury and Build Up) they will probably be dead before long anyway.
Upshot: Conductive Aura is much better than Lightning Field for draining a large group, but a brute can keep a boss completely drained and shrug off the damage from the minions, and still quickly dispatch the minions by AoEs targeting the boss.
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Conductive Aura doesn't apply -Recovery, just a good rate of -End.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
They have an AoE -end, -recov aura.
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I've noticed this in game, that sometimes an enemy will gain a tick of endurance between ticks of the aura and use it. Its a good power, but doesn't give the rock-solid guarantee of no retaliation that Short Circuit does.
(And Chain Fences lists -Rec, but its 40% of 6 seconds of -Rec. Nuts!
An Electric/Thermal/Primal Controller seems effective at sapping. Mids says Power Boost would give you a 122.925% boost which seems devastating with Heat Exhaustion. You could also go /Cold for the -End from Heat Loss.
So....what was the final verdict on the "best" endurance sapper around? I've been really wanting to make one too....
Personally, I was thinking Elec/Thermal/Mu Corr would be best, but I'm no expert at that department, just going off of being on the "recieving" end of it's drains in pvp before...lol...
I would place my bet on Elec/Psi/Mu Dominator. Lots of synergy there too in general.
I did pretty well with my FF/Elec/Power defender.
He's close to the def softcap so I turn on hover and put him on follow to the lead tank. Spam elec sapping powers and almost never get hit. Power Build Up, Short Circuit and Ball Lightning will drain them in one attack cycle. Without PBU it takes two cycles.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
End Drainer w/ DMG and Team Support?
Elec/Elec Brute with Leadership toggles!
Build for some +Defense with IOs/Powers and you're good to go!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I would re-iterate Electric/Psi Dom for Sapping + Dmg + Support.
Electric Control does mad sapping with little effort on your part. Drain Psyche from Psi is a 30 second -500% recovery debuff. The sapping potential with high levels of recharge is immense.
Psi is a good mix of single target and AoE attacks so damage is covered for about any situation.
Control sets in general are great support.
Elec control/rad controller
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
elec/x/mu dominator where x = earth, energy, or ice assault is very good at quickly draining 8 foes. However, it has no appreciable -recovery; it is there, but not reliable. Great -end though.
elec/psi/mu doesn't drain as quickly, but the massive -recovery ensures that once they are bottomed out they stay there for the duration.
I terms of supporting the team and delivering direct damage I'd nominate those combos.
Elec/x/primal, or Elec/x/mu where x = kin, therm, or storm can also result in a pretty potent sapper.
The controllers contribute less direct damage than the doms, but all 3 secondaries can do a good to amazing job of making the team kill faster.
I wouldn't recommend cold domination. Heatloss is on way too long of a recharge to make an effective end drain tool and mobs with floored recharge use less endurance because they attack so infrequently, so -recovery is less potent (ie cold/elec def).
My Elec/Kin troller definitely has sapping down to a science, especailly post-35 when you can nearly sap a +2 boss in one shot. Thermal and Cold also have end drain powers, but /kin has the most spammable end drain between Transfusion and Transference.
..but her damage is just outright terrible compared to a corrupter. Elec/Kin corr isn't the way I'd go; it doesn't have a 3rd single target attack and IMO Short Circuit hasn't been worthwhile as end drain since ED. Even with /Mu it's only a moderately effective setup; I deleted this toon at 47 and rerolled her as a DP/Kin.
Title sums it up..Looking to play a new kind of toon to see how I like the end drain/team speed/damage support route for a change....
Im guessing Electric/Kinetic/Mu Corruptor is the best for this play style?
Transference + Short Circuit + Power Sink (Mu Patron) = Potential -240 Foe End?
I guess my next question would be- how effective is it on hard TF's and Missions against higher mobs, etc. Would alphas eat this toon up if you went in too early, or is the en drain enough, etc.?
Experienced Sapper-playstyle feedback appreciated.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.