Allow Controllers to CONTROL their pets.
By
Chyll,
Posted on: 2010-09-15 18:40 in Suggestions and Ideas
Told long ago that this wouldn't happen. Pets are not henchmen, and henchie control is the Mastermind schtik.
(That said, I'd still like at least a minimal "ignore that and come over here.")
I think it is ok for controllers to have a small subset of mastermind commands.
How much nerfing are you willing to take for the ability to control them?
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
My first character ever was a fire/kin controller.
Back in my day (and by my day I mean 2004 when the game was released... I got into the forum game late. Shame sham) I would run around with armies of 15 fire imps. I miss those days sorely.... there's very few things more satisfying to me than watching 15 uncontrollable monsters superbuffed by fulcrum shift run around and cause utter madness in a solo mission.
Anyway, I agree with the principle that only masterminds should be able to actually order their pets. The difference between a mastermind and a controller is the mastermind is designed to be a leader of armies. The beings they control are sentient. Controllers on the other hand create non-sentient beings which I would imagine is already a highly difficult thing to control. Actually being able to give it orders would require some sort of compromise on a controllers abilities.
That's my sight on it anyway, and just an opinion.
In short: No thank you to the controller pet controlling.
I am nobody, and I support this message.
Can they allow Masterminds to fully control their pets first?
All I want is for my pets to stand still and stay where I tell them to stand. Even if they get attacked. Especially if their attacker runs away.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Ha! QFT.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Can they allow Masterminds to fully control their pets first?
All I want is for my pets to stand still and stay where I tell them to stand. Even if they get attacked. Especially if their attacker runs away. |
That said, I think the 'MMs only' schtick is complete b*llocks. I mean, come on, their schtick is having a small army at their backs, all the time, with all the attack power in it. I should know, my main is one! Controllers have a few pets tops, and even then not all the time, except for maybe a permahasten Ill/ But that's not going to be the norm.
I mean 'controller'? It's in the name, even! Dumb pets are dumb, and that's with MM controls. Giving Controllers an ability to actually reign in runaways seems like a fine idea to me.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Makes no sense that a leader of a band of thugs has more control over his/her subordinates than a person who creates animated incarnations of their will and control over the basis of their power.
My Illusion controller's Phantasm exists only because my character has brought him into existence. He is a mindless extension of me animated and controlled by my thoughts.
The original reason given for the disparity was that this was intended to provide a benefit to CoV. Any reason to do that has long since fell out.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I'd say the disparity at this point is more about keeping a distinction between these ATs that are both notable in their pet-itude. MMs get control, controllers get a Pile o'Mez.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
The original reason given for the disparity was that this was intended to provide a benefit to CoV. Any reason to do that has long since fell out.
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Dalantia hit it on the end:
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Originally Posted by Dalantia
How much nerfing are you willing to take for the ability to control them?
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
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Vanysh - Eldrytch
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Why do you believe that any would be required?|
Originally Posted by Dalantia
How much nerfing are you willing to take for the ability to control them?
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Personally, I don't think Controllers/Doms need full control, but only the three basic controls given to Masterminds on character creation. The ability to tell the pet to attack, to back off, and to protect themselves and me first.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
YOU CAN HAVE MY SPASTIC A.D.D. CRACK MONKEYS WHEN YOU PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS!
Or in other words, no thanks!
I much prefer controllers to MMs, the control options available to MMs only seem to exacerbate the stupidity of the AI and I always end up aggravated.
Whereas with a controller, I *know* my pet is going to do stupid, random stuff so it doesn't bug me.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Whew, I get to disagree with EG. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Makes no sense that a leader of a band of thugs has more control over his/her subordinates than a person who creates animated incarnations of their will and control over the basis of their power.
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That, actually, is precisely what's behind the naming difference (and control difference.) The henchmen are (supposed to be) intelligent, independent beings who can handle more complex orders. (Go there, attack them, get my coffee.) Pets are not. Even masterminds get pets they are not allowed to control - Dark Servant specifically comes to mind here, but Force Field Generator (for instance) is also a "pet" we can't control - despite it showing in the "pets" window.
If any pet type should have the same amount of control (thematically) as a Mastermind does over their minion, it would be the Patron pool pets. You are, again, summoning an independant, thinking being (Coralax, Mu mystic, Widow or Arachnobot) and - unlike controller pets - they're short duration, long recharge, so a tradeoff that allows you to give them orders would not really step on MM toes.
Controller pets, if they get any orders at all, SHOULD be simpler - "Stop, Go, Come here." I'd say we already have proof this wouldn't be a big issue *now* because (some) controllers already do this with Recall Friend, to a point. (And if any set would fall under "gamebreaking with full command," it would be Illusion. Blame that.)
Edit: Dammit, EG, don't agree with that last part while I'm still writing it! /moves doomsday clock slightly closer to "midnight"
MMs also get Bodyguard and Supremacy. As long as Controllers didn't get these, I could see Controllers getting some command options for pets, and maybe even a renaming option.
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Originally Posted by Dalantia
How much nerfing are you willing to take for the ability to control them?
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Why do you believe that any would be required?
Personally, I don't think Controllers/Doms need full control, but only the three basic controls given to Masterminds on character creation. The ability to tell the pet to attack, to back off, and to protect themselves and me first. |
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
MMs also get Bodyguard and Supremacy. As long as Controllers didn't get these, I could see Controllers getting some command options for pets, and maybe even a renaming option.
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But I could see where they might eventually give them some additional ways to manage their pets that might improve their QoL without approaching the micro-management levels of control a MM deals with. As long as Controllers/Dominators NEVER get the ability to specifically move pets around to specific locations I could see where getting the ability to set global attack/defend stances might not be too unbalanced for them to have. Still I'm not going to assume that'll happen anytime soon at this point and ironically enough I probably wouldn't bother using that new capability even if it were provided regardless. I've been herding Fire Imps for over 6 years now - I really don't need anything new to help me with that.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Yeah, because MMs don't have that either.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
As long as Controllers/Dominators NEVER get the ability to specifically move pets around to specific locations-
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Sorry? Go To? The most broken pile of junk that doesn't even work, because they tend not to move to locations that are within a few feet and also don't ever stay where you tell them to?
/Growls in corner
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And to a lesser extent, Fire Control.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
(And if any set would fall under "gamebreaking with full command," it would be Illusion. Blame that.)
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I'm not really sure of what the benefit of even basic pet controls would be, but I've personally never had any real problems with them.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Not really. Fire Control's imps are killable (easily.) Illusion control? Three untouchable pets at 18?|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
And to a lesser extent, Fire Control.
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| I'm not really sure of what the benefit of even basic pet controls would be, but I've personally never had any real problems with them. |
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I agree with Bill. The controller/dominator is already essentially controlling an inanimate element to the point where it has form and motility. That's actually a pretty impressive amount of control and manipulation. Giving it the ability to follow orders at the same time seems incongruous to me. It basically harkens back to the old DnD principle of summoning elementals.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Whew, I get to disagree with EG.
That, actually, is precisely what's behind the naming difference (and control difference.) The henchmen are (supposed to be) intelligent, independent beings who can handle more complex orders. (Go there, attack them, get my coffee.) Pets are not. Even masterminds get pets they are not allowed to control - Dark Servant specifically comes to mind here, but Force Field Generator (for instance) is also a "pet" we can't control - despite it showing in the "pets" window. If any pet type should have the same amount of control (thematically) as a Mastermind does over their minion, it would be the Patron pool pets. You are, again, summoning an independant, thinking being (Coralax, Mu mystic, Widow or Arachnobot) and - unlike controller pets - they're short duration, long recharge, so a tradeoff that allows you to give them orders would not really step on MM toes. Controller pets, if they get any orders at all, SHOULD be simpler - "Stop, Go, Come here." I'd say we already have proof this wouldn't be a big issue *now* because (some) controllers already do this with Recall Friend, to a point. (And if any set would fall under "gamebreaking with full command," it would be Illusion. Blame that.) Edit: Dammit, EG, don't agree with that last part while I'm still writing it! /moves doomsday clock slightly closer to "midnight" |
Besides, we have indeed been specifically told that controller/dominator pets are made tougher and do more damage than comparable minions expressly because they don't have any control. The people who say they'd be nerfed if we were given controls aren't far wrong.
On top of all that, consider the quality of play. Sure there are situations where a dumb pet makes things harder. But I can easily foresee more situations where the need to give your pet commands would make it harder still. A buffing or healing controller, or an AoE specialist Dominator, is already busy enough on a team. When I'm in the mood to micromanage, I'll play my MM thanks.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
If I can't command my Vet Buff Pet to follow me in Sychronous Orbit, then can I at least get it to Leash-Port to me?
Int. Purple Cave:
Our Hero: Wth? Where is my pet?
Search of intense length and annoying ammount of time commences:
Search Ends:
Our Hero: Heya?!? Why are you here staring at this cave wall?!?
Our Buff-Pet: Oh hai Did you ever notice that this purple cave wall goes mostly blue- greyish if you put your hand up near it? Watch, see?
Sudden movement: SPLAT!!!
Resummon:
Our Buff-Pet: Whoa! What the heck happened?
Our Hero: Er...not too sure. I think a Lost Slammer ran through and targetted you first, since, obviously, you were the biggest threat. Yeah, yeah, that's what happened, pretty sure. Any way, let's go on, kk?
Innocent Whistling Commences:
So, please, to prevent alignment checks from occuring in non-tip missions, could we get the pet to lock into close-follow/synchronous orbit, and/or leash-port when it's out of sidekick range? Please?
Or, at the very least, allow us to get a pet summon window, when we summon a pet, so we can right click Dismiss if they happen to be no where even remotely close to us, due to intense curiosity(sort of)/stupidity. That way we can resummon without having to go ALL the way back to where ever they are(which without a pet summon window, they become invisible because we can't click on their name to target them) just so we can Dismiss the brainless little things. Please? Thank you. :-)
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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I could live with that Bill .. just let me tell the silly things... WHOA do NOT charge into that room full of Paragon Protectors until I tell you to and I can be a very happy camper. Oh and let's not stop at Controllers .. Can we please have the same option for SoA or anything else that gets a pet/pets? I also love the idea of being able to rename them .. My Ill/Emp's Phantasm is name Paco and doubles as my pool boy. LOL
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Whew, I get to disagree with EG.
That, actually, is precisely what's behind the naming difference (and control difference.) The henchmen are (supposed to be) intelligent, independent beings who can handle more complex orders. (Go there, attack them, get my coffee.) Pets are not. Even masterminds get pets they are not allowed to control - Dark Servant specifically comes to mind here, but Force Field Generator (for instance) is also a "pet" we can't control - despite it showing in the "pets" window. If any pet type should have the same amount of control (thematically) as a Mastermind does over their minion, it would be the Patron pool pets. You are, again, summoning an independant, thinking being (Coralax, Mu mystic, Widow or Arachnobot) and - unlike controller pets - they're short duration, long recharge, so a tradeoff that allows you to give them orders would not really step on MM toes. Controller pets, if they get any orders at all, SHOULD be simpler - "Stop, Go, Come here." I'd say we already have proof this wouldn't be a big issue *now* because (some) controllers already do this with Recall Friend, to a point. (And if any set would fall under "gamebreaking with full command," it would be Illusion. Blame that.) Edit: Dammit, EG, don't agree with that last part while I'm still writing it! /moves doomsday clock slightly closer to "midnight" |
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
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I know what I'm about to say is going to sound very weird, and players who love MMs will probably think I'm insane, but frankly if they made it so I had to control my Fire Imps the same way MMs control their henchies I might very well stop playing my Fire Controllers. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
On top of all that, consider the quality of play. Sure there are situations where a dumb pet makes things harder. But I can easily foresee more situations where the need to give your pet commands would make it harder still. A buffing or healing controller, or an AoE specialist Dominator, is already busy enough on a team. When I'm in the mood to micromanage, I'll play my MM thanks.
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I have absolutely nothing against MMs and I realize the people out there who love to micro-manage their henchies do very well with that. But for me I simply CANNOT stand that level of pet micromanagment. After years of play I've learned how to manipulate my Imps via my own character movements very well. Sure they occasionally still run off and do something stupid on me, but the frequency of that happening is far, far lower than most people seem to think it is if you know what you are doing with them.
I actually happen to think it's one of the strengths of this game that not all pet ATs work exactly the same way as far as pet control goes. If Controllers/Dominators worked the same way MMs do that would be a net loss for the diversity of this game.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
No ty i want MM's to keep the special skill.
I hate to double post, but I've had a really bad night so far. I added my 2 cents on this post about items we'd like to see in I19 or sometime in the future, but I really think this should be posted here.
So I'd like to throw this idea into the "never gonna happen" idea box, because I feel if you don't get your hopes up, you won't get disappointed if it doesn't.
But please devs, allow us Controllers to CONTROL our pets like Masterminds can. I don't think it should be too hard to implement as the function is already there in the game, just add those powers to Controllers.
I've said my peace.
Thank you,
Marsha