Pros and Cons of CoH: A Video Review
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-09-06 13:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by GKaiser
It has been around a little over 7 years. A decade is 10 years. CoH has been around almost a decade.
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| 04/27/2004 - City of Heroes released |
I mean 'decade' sounds great and all, but I believe in accuracy.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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We live in a Web 2.0 age; once you publish something, you can actually directly interact with the people who view what you published.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
So you come here on the boards where it is pretty clear there is a near fanatical player base, and ask they to review you obviously bias review of the game they love. What did you expect? The post, and the request for this player base to look at it makes you look like a troll. If that was not you're plan, you may want to make it more clear in the OP, you may also want to let the review stand for what it says, rather than constantly trying to defend you're PoV with people you know disagree.
Also, you seem to have missed the sarcasm of my first post. |
I'm very interested in talking about things with people, especially those who disagree with me. I like feedback and the chance that some feedback might cause me to look at something from a different vantage point.
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| This game has been around for near a decade, when so many others have crashed and burned. |
Several?
WoW.
Who else?
Seriously;.. just go play WoW.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Like...?
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Originally Posted by GKaiser
..and several others have since came out and gained a million+ subscribers. |
I think the review was a touch harsh and kinda unprofessional. By unprofessional, I mean the profanity and being dressed like a scrub. Minor point.
I also think you make a lot of valid points. The repetitive maps are a pain. The market is a fun tool but the prices are way too high.
I agree about the lack or rewards as well for various missions etc. Nothing special and sometimes too onerous (enjoyed your suggestion of giving you some reward for doing one of the task force commander missions).
I also think AV fights are a touch too easy at times. I don't think any toon can solo most of the AVs in game so maybe you can enlighten me about your experiences there. Have more strategy involved would be nice.
The IO/crafting system is a pain in the butt but I don't agree with your gripes about getting enhancements. In a decent team, sometimes you don't even need enhancements. I often just use drops as I go along. If you have a tough mission then go get them. 
This game is not almost a decade old. It's just over 6. Again, minor point. However, I will add they should have added more end game content and original content. I think the last lead dev really steered CoH into a rough patch. I also have no idea of what resources are allocated to CoH by NC Soft so maybe they don't have the money to add what we'd really like. It is obvious they take the low road in a lot of ways by just repeating the same missions over and over. They really have to stop doing that.
Overall, you make some valid points but the pros really outweigh the cons. You really don't touch on many positives and it seems like you missed a lot of stuff on your journey to level 50. GOING ROGUE is a great new system for the early levels. Fun stuff for sure although they do the repeat mission map thing again...sadly.
Running all over the zones for contacts is something they did long ago; that part is still in game but you really don't do it and if you do there is often a cell phone option. I think all MMOs are designed to keep you playing for as long as they can so making you do this rubbish is not unlike a lot of MMOs - keep them running around and doing something without it costing us a lot of money to make.
I don't know what to say here about your review. I agree with a lot of your criticisms but I feel most of those are minor (other than end game and maps). A lot of your concerns did exist at one time but are not so obvious in the newer updates. I really think you just went through the content as quick as you could.
Honestly, you need to research your topic much more before considering yourself a reviewer. Anyone can slap something online and be harsh critic. Your review is a total rush job and it shows. Many of your negative comments are absolutely true but you need to be a bit more objective. It almost seems like someone at CoH ticked you off you're writing a revenge piece. If I had never played CoH before and saw your review, I would think it's a piece of trash. Consider this: it has been around 6+ years and probably has at least 150 000 subs right now. Stop comparing it to WoW's sub numbers because that is the exception and not common in MMOs.
PS - you're reviewing CoH so why do it in pieces? Mission Architect in another review? Why? Review it as a game in it's entirety.
Id like to know who these other games are with a million plus subscribers that have come out recently..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
"Shedding light"?
A "typical MMORPG player"...
As one atypical MMORPG player, I kindly suggest that people accept that not all things need be typical 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Yet you defend yourself against every criticism and tell us we're off base rather than say "Yeah, maybe I should revisit that" about anything.|
Originally Posted by GKaiser
I like feedback and the chance that some feedback might cause me to look at something from a different vantage point.
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I don't know why you'd need feedback when you're already correct about everything
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You said that much nicer than I was going to.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
Yet you defend yourself against every criticism and tell us we're off base rather than say "Yeah, maybe I should revisit that" about anything.
I don't know why you'd need feedback when you're already correct about everything |
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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The only MMO I know of with that number is WoW. Can you provide the name and numbers of the others? Some empirical evidence would be sweet. Most companies do list their quarterlies. For a game going 6+ years, CoH has a decent amount of subs.|
Originally Posted by GKaiser
We live in a Web 2.0 age; once you publish something, you can actually directly interact with the people who view what you published.
I'm very interested in talking about things with people, especially those who disagree with me. I like feedback and the chance that some feedback might cause me to look at something from a different vantage point. ..and several others have since came out and gained a million+ subscribers. |
Just out of curiosity, which MMOs do you prefer over CoH. If you say WoW, you may lose your last bit of credibility with me
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This is an excellent point.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
Yet you defend yourself against every criticism and tell us we're off base rather than say "Yeah, maybe I should revisit that" about anything.
I don't know why you'd need feedback when you're already correct about everything |
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You're looking at it from an odd perspective.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Ahh. So we need to be WOW then and have millions of players to be successful?
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The number of subscribers by itself is only half the information. The other information is the number of people who have tried the game and been turned off by it. CoH has had pretty strong box sales, but its subscriber base hasn't really increased much.
This indicates its target audience (the people who buy the game) aren't really connecting with the game.
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| Did you stop to think that the fact COH has held on for the last - coming close to seven - years is because it ISN'T the typical MMO? There are plenty of "typical" (and atypical) MMOs that just flat out didn't make it - Auto Assault, crash and burn. DDO, death spiral 'til they went F2P. Hellgate: London, crash and burn. Tabula Rasa couldn't even be saved by Garriot's name and a lot of hype. And Aion has had a serious drop as well. |
Watch my review again. I never said CoH was the worst game ever and it's gonna die. I said it has a lot of design issues that prevent me from wanting to play it anymore, until those issues are addressed, and I think these same issues drive others away, too.
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| Meanwhile, here's COH, going for years with a pretty steady subscriber base, and successful enough to have NCSoft purchase the property and reinvest, giving the studio new offices and more than quadrupling the staff (from 15 at the end of the time with Cryptic to over 60 now.) |
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| Know why I don't like the typical MMO? Let's take Aion. I have to basically *stop* playing the game to advance, trying to get gold for skills. I *have* to PVP and/or raid to get the best gear - without which I'm seriously underpowered. Hunts? Yes, we have them in COH - but we know, for instance, when we're told to defeat 30 council, we'll do so by defeating 30 Council, as opposed to "Get 10 bat ears" (which, strangely, only one in twenty bats seem to have.) I'm not forced to team to get from 1-50. I'm not forced to do much of anything. Don't like raiding? I don't have to. Don't like PVP? I can avoid it. Don't want to run task forces? I don't have to. Conversely, I have that available and can run it at any level - and can even go *back* and run it at an appropriate level thanks to Ouroboros's flashback system. |
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Now we get to the heart of this.
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Originally Posted by GKaiser
and an end-game pvp system that makes a long boring grind worth it in the end
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Again, who are these other MMOs that have "millions" of players?
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Do you honestly believe three-four sentence posts (most of them vague about what they dislike about my opinions) are going to instantly change the opinion of someone who spent 97 hours playing the game from 1-50 to review it, and a hell of a lot more researching it? |
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Yet you defend yourself against every criticism and tell us we're off base rather than say "Yeah, maybe I should revisit that" about anything.
I don't know why you'd need feedback when you're already correct about everything |
You call it "defending" my criticisms. I call it elaborating on how I came to my opinions.
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Then can you elaborate on which MMOs have 1 million+ subscribers apart from WoW? |
Originally Posted by GKaiser
You call it "defending" my criticisms. I call it elaborating on how I came to my opinions.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Only 97 hours?? |
Originally Posted by GKaiser
Do you honestly believe three-four sentence posts (most of them vague about what they dislike about my opinions) are going to instantly change the opinion of someone who spent 97 hours playing the game from 1-50 to review it, and a hell of a lot more researching it?
You call it "defending" my criticisms. I call it elaborating on how I came to my opinions. |
...LOL.
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Off the top of my head, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Dofus, Aion, MapleStory, and Dungeon Fighter (oddly enough). I don't know why you don't think there aren't more MMORPGs out there than just WoW. I haven't been keeping up with it, but at one point Ragnarok Online had more subscribers than WoW and this was while RO was still pay to play.
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Originally Posted by Vivace
Again, who are these other MMOs that have "millions" of players?
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Are those numbers supposed to sound impressive to people who've played the game much longer and spent much more time researching? |
Originally Posted by GKaiser
Do you honestly believe three-four sentence posts (most of them vague about what they dislike about my opinions) are going to instantly change the opinion of someone who spent 97 hours playing the game from 1-50 to review it, and a hell of a lot more researching it?
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No, I don't think they're going to do anything to change your opinion because, honestly, you sound like the type of person who'd spend more time being offended that everyone didn't think his review was the bee's knees and would rather circle the wagons than admit that his work was pretty shoddy in places.
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so a bunch of f2p games, which make accurate player counts impossible, the sequel to the most popular game in korea, a game that has just gone through drastic server merges, and wow. you see, here is an issue that aion, as well as conan and warhammer have had, they all launched with massive numbers and then completely collapsed. the big pvp centric games had content issues and lead heavy server merges and plummeting server populations. proportionally coh has been very steady.
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Originally Posted by GKaiser
Off the top of my head, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Dofus, Aion, MapleStory, and Dungeon Fighter (oddly enough).
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It's nice how you've jumped straight into personal insults and haven't actually addressed how my opinions are incorrect using facts. That's really helping change my viewpoints. |
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Are those numbers supposed to sound impressive to people who've played the game much longer and spent much more time researching?
No, I don't think they're going to do anything to change your opinion because, honestly, you sound like the type of person who'd spend more time being offended that everyone didn't think his review was the bee's knees and would rather circle the wagons than admit that his work was pretty shoddy in places. |
See, I can be witty, too.
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1. The games which crashed and burned did so in a matter of months. |
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
so a bunch of f2p games, which make accurate player counts impossible the sequel to the most popular game in korea, a game that has just goe through drastic server merges, and wow. you see, here is an issue that aion, as well as conan and warhammer have had, they all launched with massive numbers and then completely collapsed. the big pvp centric games had content issues and lead heavy server merges and plummeting server populations. proportionally coh has been very steady.
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2. Regardless of whether a game is free to play or pay to play, every player's bandwidth costs money. The higher the active subscriber number, the more money it takes to keep the game afloat. Consequently a game with more subscribers must earn more money for the company to not go bankrupt.
*clicks to random part of video*
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Yeah, you have no idea what the game is about or how it's changed since you quit in 2004. I can't wait for your Mission Architect review!|
Originally Posted by guy in sweaty t-shirt
This is insane because the game design forces you to replace your enhancements every five levels or so.
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Originally Posted by guy in different sweaty t-shirt
So yeah, it turns out you just enter a mission full of Rikti Comm Officers and doorsit while the high levels kill them all and you hit 50 in two hours!
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Did you stop to think that the fact COH has held on for the last - coming close to seven - years is because it ISN'T the typical MMO? There are plenty of "typical" (and atypical) MMOs that just flat out didn't make it - Auto Assault, crash and burn. DDO, death spiral 'til they went F2P. Hellgate: London, crash and burn. Tabula Rasa couldn't even be saved by Garriot's name and a lot of hype. And Aion has had a serious drop as well.
Meanwhile, here's COH, going for years with a pretty steady subscriber base, and successful enough to have NCSoft purchase the property and reinvest, giving the studio new offices and more than quadrupling the staff (from 15 at the end of the time with Cryptic to over 60 now.)
Sounds successful to me.
Know why I don't like the typical MMO? Let's take Aion. I have to basically *stop* playing the game to advance, trying to get gold for skills. I *have* to PVP and/or raid to get the best gear - without which I'm seriously underpowered. Hunts? Yes, we have them in COH - but we know, for instance, when we're told to defeat 30 council, we'll do so by defeating 30 Council, as opposed to "Get 10 bat ears" (which, strangely, only one in twenty bats seem to have.) I'm not forced to team to get from 1-50. I'm not forced to do much of anything. Don't like raiding? I don't have to. Don't like PVP? I can avoid it. Don't want to run task forces? I don't have to. Conversely, I have that available and can run it at any level - and can even go *back* and run it at an appropriate level thanks to Ouroboros's flashback system.