Airhammer, you're absolutely right. The low resistances in FA do concern me, and was the major point in my thread over in the beta section. People have a tendency to focus on the KB protection thing more than anything though, and honestly that doesn't factor in for me in my decision for selecting the set. Like others have said, and I agree, it's easy enough to fix the hole with Acrobatics or an IO, but that still doesn't make it right that it's there to begin with. I'm much more worried about the overall survivability of the set, as it's supposedly lower for the sake of having more damage. I don't believe the damage it does compensates for the damage it takes, at least on a tank. That's why I'm giving it a roll on my scrapper tomorrow. Maybe I won't like it, maybe I do like defense based and regen based classes more.
It's just a shame because I really just want to burn things, so maybe I'll just have to settle for being squishy 
Just coming back to this thread to say, that I personally support the whole concept of balancing /fire's lack of mitigation not by adding more mitigation, but by adding more damage.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
I'm liking the changes to Fiery Aura although I would like for these additional changes to be made. Increase the duration of Fiery Embrace to 30 seconds (like the Brute version was) and add KB protection to Fire Shield or Plasma Shield, not Temperature Protection. I don't wanna waste a power pick on that.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Isn't that precisely what Castle just did?
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Just coming back to this thread to say, that I personally support the whole concept of balancing /fire's lack of mitigation not by adding more mitigation, but by adding more damage.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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*scratches forehead* Sooo... in my build I've posted earlier it would be enough? Or not? |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Consume is now +5% recovery per foe hit for 30 seconds, enhanced by slotting, on top of the 20 +end fer foe. PP is 12.5% recovery, flat. How those balance out are going to depend on how you slot them (including PS procs, if any), how often you use Consume, and how many foes you hit on average.
On a build I have that's not very tweaked for recharge (not where I want it to be, certainly) I have Consume on a 75s recharge not counting Hasten. Honestly, I don't use Consume often at all on that character, and that's a Stone/FA Brute. The only time I can run that Brute out of end is when I get drained or stand toe-to-toe with hard targets and spam my attacks non-stop. Some how I do that is having four sets of Impervium Armor slotted, but I'm considering turning some of those into Gladiator's Armor (for slot "free" KB protection) and letting the new Consume pick up the slack in EPS recovery. (Edit: That change only loses EPS through reduction in max end - GA actually has the same +recovery.) |
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Just played around with my SS/Fire Brute with the new changes.
Fantastic. Fiery Embrace was letting me one shot minions with Footstomp. Burn is well... Insanely good. The max of 5 targets is balanced. It doesn't need to be increased. With 5 targets, the first 5 pretty much die INSTANTLY, and then the DoT from Burn starts killing the rest of the mob. And yes, the DoT is still quite good.
Can't wait to drop my AoE immb and pick up new stuff.
The thing that would make FA less squishy would be the addition of some melee, pbaoe, etc. sets that give significant +S/L Resist. There's no end of ways to boost defense of all types, but for characters without S/L Resist already, there's currently no ways to fix the hole. Either you have it already, or you don't.
A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."
Folks. I don't think some of you are understanding why the rest of us do not like the KB hole. It is not a matter of ease, for you can simply grab Acrobatics or even get a few KB protection IOs.
The issue is that doing so takes a power pick and power slot(s), which could be better used putting a Regenerative Tissue unique in, Luck of the Gambler 7.5% Recharge, or any number of goodies. Covering up that KB hole gives less room to improve the build.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
spot on
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Not sure where the build you posted is, but Consume is going to provide more endurance than Physical Perfection will. Time for maths!|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
*scratches forehead* Sooo... in my build I've posted earlier it would be enough? Or not?
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2 Slotted Physical Perfection (83.32%) is going to provide .38 end/sec. The Perf Shifter proc will add an extra .2 end/sec. You'll get a total of .58 end/sec from Perf Shifter.
In a mid-tier IO build (which I'm assuming it's fair to assume since I'm including the Perf Shifter proc for Phys Perf) I'm going to assume that Consume has 95% +rech slotting and roughly 115% global recharge (including Hasten) so that the recharge time is only ~58 seconds and the total cycle time is a nice round 60 seconds. With slotting any +recov (which is likely since you probably want to throw an Obliteration 6 piece in Consume rather than a 6 piece Perf Shifter or 6 piece Eff Adapter because the set bonuses are better) and only a single target around, you're going to get .33 end/sec (20 end/60 sec = .33 end/sec from the +end; .5 * 1.67 * 15 / 60 = .021 end/sec from the +rec; .95 * (.33 + .02) ). With one additional target, you're going to net twice that (.66 end/sec), and so on. The only time that Phys Perf will actually be better is if you don't slot Consume with any end mod and only have a single target around.
If you want to go AV soloing, slot Consume with some Perf Shifter and get more from that single target than you would have from Perf Shifter. If you want to simply not run out of end while you turn your enemies into some nice ash for the potted plants you thoughtfully spared while you rampaged through the office building, you'll be getting way more than Physical Perfection would ever provide.
TL: DR version
Consume is now better than Dark Consumption. Physical Perfection is worse than Quick Recovery. Dark Consumption has long been known to be better for your blue bar than Quick Recovery. QED: Consume is better than Physical Perfection.
It was on the first page, though not in a standard build post. Sorries. This is the link I provided: http://tinyurl.com/24yzxfz
And thank you for doing the maths for me. I don't like numbers sometimes.
Oh! I have no Hasten and global Recharge is at 47.5%.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I have no problem with the kb hole. The main problem I encounter on fire due to its lack of avoidance is end draining and slows.
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Well, a few issues a go they added slow resist to temp protection (although its pretty small) and this issue they added end drain resists to Consume.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
I have no problem with the kb hole. The main problem I encounter on fire due to its lack of avoidance is end draining and slows.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I still don't buy the "oh no you have to blow a slot or two on KB protect" argument. You don't have to blow an entire power pick for /FA's status protection, either, so no useless slots that just have -end in them wasted there, plus you get all sorts of options. You don't need ridiculously expensive +end/recov IO's as much with /FA due to Consume, you get TONS of AOE damage from Blazing Aura and Burn (and most people are crazy about AOE in COH), etc.
Sorry guys, a couple of enhancement slots are really not that huge of a burden. Every set has slots you HAVE to spend a certain way (+Recharge on /SD's status protect, etc). Oh nos, the huge manatee...
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Now see, that arguement just fails imo.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Folks. I don't think some of you are understanding why the rest of us do not like the KB hole. It is not a matter of ease, for you can simply grab Acrobatics or even get a few KB protection IOs.
The issue is that doing so takes a power pick and power slot(s), which could be better used putting a Regenerative Tissue unique in, Luck of the Gambler 7.5% Recharge, or any number of goodies. Covering up that KB hole gives less room to improve the build. |
I don't want this hole in defenses, because I'd rather fix these other spots in my build.
Well yeah. I'd like to beable to grab Phase Shift without the ability to turn others invisible, can we fix that too (and I mean without a temp power)...sometimes tier power pool powers just don't make sense to me :/ Phase...not turn invisible! Like Shadowcat! Who doesn't turn invisibile! Grrr...
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Like using Hami-Os in order to fill out Shields DDR? :P
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Originally Posted by sprintstnyc
I still don't buy the "oh no you have to blow a slot or two on KB protect" argument. You don't have to blow an entire power pick for /FA's status protection, either, so no useless slots that just have -end in them wasted there, plus you get all sorts of options. You don't need ridiculously expensive +end/recov IO's as much with /FA due to Consume, you get TONS of AOE damage from Blazing Aura and Burn (and most people are crazy about AOE in COH), etc.
Sorry guys, a couple of enhancement slots are really not that huge of a burden. Every set has slots you HAVE to spend a certain way (+Recharge on /SD's status protect, etc). Oh nos, the huge manatee... |
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
Well I have a BS/FA scrapper and I would be interested in knowing how softcap it.
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I just bumped a thread with a lot of BS/fa builds in it.|
Originally Posted by Hippaforalkus
Well I have a BS/FA scrapper and I would be interested in knowing how softcap it.
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But, softcapping /fa is non-trivial, and you're likely to be better served with a mix of mitigations.
Well, softcapping anything besides melee and lethal, that is.
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Fighting one of the new freakshow bosses (forget what the name is, but they use electric control), the lack of recovery debuff protection still hurts.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Well, a few issues a go they added slow resist to temp protection (although its pretty small) and this issue they added end drain resists to Consume.
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Every other set that gets one of those protections gets the other as well (dark armor, stone armor, elec armor, invuln, although invuln doesn't get much of it). Still, nice to have something the set didn't have before.
Culex's resistance guide
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It is odd to me that it only gets the one.
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Originally Posted by Pitho
Fighting one of the new freakshow bosses (forget what the name is, but they use electric control), the lack of recovery debuff protection still hurts.
Every other set that gets one of those protections gets the other as well (dark armor, stone armor, elec armor, invuln, although invuln doesn't get much of it). Still, nice to have something the set didn't have before. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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yes... i like what he just did... not sure if he did enough, but i like it in concept.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Isn't that precisely what Castle just did?
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I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Having to make up for the KB hole does hold you back from grabbing more worthwhile things that other defense sets (other than DA) do not have to worry about. More recharge, more defense, or improving your powers is more meaningful than grabbing something for fun (and that's a worthwhile thing, too). Nothing in DA or FA makes them so good that they should have to make up for a KB hole that the other sets don't even have to worry about.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Now see, that arguement just fails imo.
I don't want this hole in defenses, because I'd rather fix these other spots in my build. Well yeah. I'd like to beable to grab Phase Shift without the ability to turn others invisible, can we fix that too (and I mean without a temp power)...sometimes tier power pool powers just don't make sense to me :/ Phase...not turn invisible! Like Shadowcat! Who doesn't turn invisibile! Grrr... |
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Fixing is for broken stuff (and sometimes cats and dogs too.) Did you even read what I posted? It gives less room for improvement because covering the KB hole uses a power pick, power slot(s), and possibly draining more endurance that could otherwise be put to pushing the Scrapper further.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Now see, that arguement just fails imo.
I don't want this hole in defenses, because I'd rather fix these other spots in my build. Well yeah. I'd like to beable to grab Phase Shift without the ability to turn others invisible, can we fix that too (and I mean without a temp power)...sometimes tier power pool powers just don't make sense to me :/ Phase...not turn invisible! Like Shadowcat! Who doesn't turn invisibile! Grrr... |
This is what we do. We are probably one of the most enthusiast Archetype forums on the CoH boards. Sure, not every Scrapper in the game is interested in pushing their characters to the limit and then over it, but for the most part that is how this Scrapper forum is. You should know this. You really should.
I have said again and again, it is not about ease, it is not about the low end performance. It is about the high end performance of FA. At the very heights of Fiery Aura, the set has less room to improve because of the KB hole. If you get knocked back, you're not doing damage. Simple.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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Again, every set has to do this. If you don't want to spend the post-level ten game constantly mezzed, you HAVE to get the anti-mez power. Practiced Brawler and Active Defense HAVE to have extra slots assigned to them if you want them to be perma, AND you can't put any useful IO Sets in them. That's a power pick and a slot gone right there; FA's status protect is baked into its regular defensive shields. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Having to make up for the KB hole does hold you back from grabbing more worthwhile things that other defense sets (other than DA) do not have to worry about. More recharge, more defense, or improving your powers is more meaningful than grabbing something for fun (and that's a worthwhile thing, too). Nothing in DA or FA makes them so good that they should have to make up for a KB hole that the other sets don't even have to worry about.
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Again, I think you're bellyaching out of proportion to the "injury" you're suffering. You have to blow a TON more power picks and slots on Super Reflexes, for example, to get it to the most complete protection. If anything Fiery Aura gives you MORE room to do what you want with it, because it has so many powers which are skippable.
Sorry. I am absolutely unconvinced.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.