Kinetic Melee for a Scrapper, how does it look ?
Ok, vid is >>>here<<<.
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The Fury change is, in essence, a Nerf. It's just one that doesn't effect most players. |
Originally Posted by Ehina
Thanks for the clarification Arcana.
Also yes Silverado, I'm a bit worried about the Fury lower cap, but I'll have to test it before making up my mind on it. Reading about it was kinda confusing, it looks like a nerf on the paper, but I was surprised that many players seem to see it as a balanced change or some kind of buff. |
In a nutshell, Fury will start falling away sooner, but also at a slower pace. And when you are actually in combat, the rate fury falls away at is decreased... but when you aren't in a battle, Fury fades at the normal pace we are used to. The upshot is that it will be a lot easier to maintain moderate levels of fury, and even a higher level of fury in an extended fight.
I know I've been good with the change, and haven't noticed any issues with it.
KM on a Brute, however, just seems to fall flat...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Originally Posted by LifeGuardian
I remember being in the beta, and coming out of the beta, that everybody was real down on Shields, and I was like "you guys are nuts, shields is gonna be fantastic" and... well, there we are.
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Exactly. People like to "game" the beta.......they're never going to say a set is too good for fear it will get nerfed and some even attempt to sell it short to get a boost.
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I've never played a brute, but my understanding of the change is that it reduces peak performance, but improves average performance. Since most people spend most of their time dealing with "average" situations, the net result is a buff.
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Originally Posted by Ehina
Also yes Silverado, I'm a bit worried about the Fury lower cap, but I'll have to test it before making up my mind on it. Reading about it was kinda confusing, it looks like a nerf on the paper, but I was surprised that many players seem to see it as a balanced change or some kind of buff.
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Curious. Anyone care to describe the effects of Power Siphon? I mean, in general, how much of a damage bonus do scrappers get around before the 20sec of Siphon expires? If you can instantly recharge the power with the tier 9, can you somehow stack the effect? If you can manage such a feat, does the 'fury' restart?
Also, by comparison, how useful is it compared to instant recharged Build up like Stalkers get?
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When power siphon is active, each successfull hit with a KM attack will give you a 31.25% damage buff that lasts for 10 seconds (these are scrapper values). You can stack a max of 5 of these, so after 5 attacks you will max out at a 156.13% damage buff. I have successfully hit the cap with a L11 character who just has the first 3 attacks - the real barrier to hitting the cap is the killing your current target and having to run to the next one :-). |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Curious. Anyone care to describe the effects of Power Siphon? I mean, in general, how much of a damage bonus do scrappers get around before the 20sec of Siphon expires? If you can instantly recharge the power with the tier 9, can you somehow stack the effect? If you can manage such a feat, does the 'fury' restart?
Also, by comparison, how useful is it compared to instant recharged Build up like Stalkers get? |
So, your peak damage bonus will actually be 50% higher than build up, although without a lot of opponents around you will probably not get more than 1-2 attacks in at this value. The buffs do not go away when the power siphon effect 'ends', lasting for their entire 10 second duration, which means the actual duration of power siphon is somewhere between 20-30 seconds, until all the buffs fade.
Note that power siphon itself gives you a 7.5% to hit buff that does not require you to actually hit - while that is more in line with follow up than build up it is basically free, where follow up requires you to hit to get its to hit buff. I kind of consider power siphon to be a weird 3 way cross between follow up, build up and brute fury. One thing I know for certain - it does NOT play like either build up or follow up, using it successfully will require different tactics. I haven't completely figured them out myself but I think all the complaints about how it is so 'puny' compared to build up are from folks that expect it to behave the same way. They fire it off, hit thier biggest attack and basically get no benefit.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Nice summary.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
When power siphon is active, each successfull hit with a KM attack will give you a 31.25% damage buff that lasts for 10 seconds (these are scrapper values). You can stack a max of 5 of these, so after 5 attacks you will max out at a 156.13% damage buff. I have successfully hit the cap with a L11 character who just has the first 3 attacks - the real barrier to hitting the cap is the killing your current target and having to run to the next one :-).
So, your peak damage bonus will actually be 50% higher than build up, although without a lot of opponents around you will probably not get more than 1-2 attacks in at this value. The buffs do not go away when the power siphon effect 'ends', lasting for their entire 10 second duration, which means the actual duration of power siphon is somewhere between 20-30 seconds, until all the buffs fade. Note that power siphon itself gives you a 7.5% to hit buff that does not require you to actually hit - while that is more in line with follow up than build up it is basically free, where follow up requires you to hit to get its to hit buff. I kind of consider power siphon to be a weird 3 way cross between follow up, build up and brute fury. One thing I know for certain - it does NOT play like either build up or follow up, using it successfully will require different tactics. I haven't completely figured them out myself but I think all the complaints about how it is so 'puny' compared to build up are from folks that expect it to behave the same way. They fire it off, hit thier biggest attack and basically get no benefit. |
And I agree with the 'weird 3 way cross' sentiment. It is a truly unique power.
It took me a couple of levels to feel even half-way comfortable that I was getting good benefit from it. That is, my entire style of managing fights had to shift. I can't quite put it into words beyond the often repeated 'brute mini-game' - I felt noticably more like I do playing brutes while PS was up and that adjusted the pace and action in spurts - "get 'em! get 'em, now!", and then moderate back down afterwards.
I anticipate a lot of build trying to get PS perma, or as close as possible. I predict this is going to be a popular scrapper set.
(It is really nice to be in the teens, PS running, plus the occasional crit,... and essentially one shot your way through a spawn with DOs.)
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
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Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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Thanks for the summary ^_^|
Originally Posted by EricHough
When power siphon is active, each successfull hit with a KM attack will give you a 31.25% damage buff that lasts for 10 seconds (these are scrapper values). You can stack a max of 5 of these, so after 5 attacks you will max out at a 156.13% damage buff. I have successfully hit the cap with a L11 character who just has the first 3 attacks - the real barrier to hitting the cap is the killing your current target and having to run to the next one :-).
So, your peak damage bonus will actually be 50% higher than build up, although without a lot of opponents around you will probably not get more than 1-2 attacks in at this value. The buffs do not go away when the power siphon effect 'ends', lasting for their entire 10 second duration, which means the actual duration of power siphon is somewhere between 20-30 seconds, until all the buffs fade. Note that power siphon itself gives you a 7.5% to hit buff that does not require you to actually hit - while that is more in line with follow up than build up it is basically free, where follow up requires you to hit to get its to hit buff. I kind of consider power siphon to be a weird 3 way cross between follow up, build up and brute fury. One thing I know for certain - it does NOT play like either build up or follow up, using it successfully will require different tactics. I haven't completely figured them out myself but I think all the complaints about how it is so 'puny' compared to build up are from folks that expect it to behave the same way. They fire it off, hit thier biggest attack and basically get no benefit. |
It sounds like a decent buff but kind of worried about the 2min (1min with ED rech, I'd guess) recharge. I guess it's basically in line with Soul Drain...Anyway, I was planning on making an Inv/KM tanker so looking at a decent 125% buff max should do him well enough (and -20% res thrown in).
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Ahh, I get it, so just something else that will amp up scrapperlock! The team I group with is going to love this. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
When power siphon is active, each successfull hit with a KM attack will give you a 31.25% damage buff that lasts for 10 seconds (these are scrapper values). You can stack a max of 5 of these, so after 5 attacks you will max out at a 156.13% damage buff. I have successfully hit the cap with a L11 character who just has the first 3 attacks - the real barrier to hitting the cap is the killing your current target and having to run to the next one :-).
So, your peak damage bonus will actually be 50% higher than build up, although without a lot of opponents around you will probably not get more than 1-2 attacks in at this value. The buffs do not go away when the power siphon effect 'ends', lasting for their entire 10 second duration, which means the actual duration of power siphon is somewhere between 20-30 seconds, until all the buffs fade. Note that power siphon itself gives you a 7.5% to hit buff that does not require you to actually hit - while that is more in line with follow up than build up it is basically free, where follow up requires you to hit to get its to hit buff. I kind of consider power siphon to be a weird 3 way cross between follow up, build up and brute fury. One thing I know for certain - it does NOT play like either build up or follow up, using it successfully will require different tactics. I haven't completely figured them out myself but I think all the complaints about how it is so 'puny' compared to build up are from folks that expect it to behave the same way. They fire it off, hit thier biggest attack and basically get no benefit. |
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The set was absolutely awful on Brutes when I was testing. Okay, maybe not awful, but PS wasn't up NEARLY as often and it seemed to bork the entire feel of the set altogether. I guess to compensate the Tanker and Brute versions do more - damage (the Tanker doing more than the Brute, obviously)... but I really didn't feel like that was enough.
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Originally Posted by Ehina
A question about Scrapper vs Brute Kinetic Melee :
Reading the feedback thread I understood that : - Power Siphon is a 20 sec self buff that allows you to stack +%dam buffs using Kinetic Melee attacks. It has a 2 min base recharge. - Scoring a critical on the tier 9 attack (scrapper or stalker) insta recharges Power Siphon. However there is no similar effect for Brutes (or tankers). It makes me think that we'll get much more of Kinetic Melee on a scrapper than on a brute : a scrapper benefits more from the +%dam buffs of Power Siphon than a brute, and furthermore will have regularly a chance to insta recharge Power Siphon. Is that correct ? Has there been some end-game calculations on the main ST dps chains of KM on a scrapper vs a brute with mid-high recharge ? I want to start a hero brute with GR, but I'd also like to try Kinetic Melee. Both at the same time would be cool, but I'd really like to be sure first if a IOed KM brute is a viable choice compared to a KM scrapper or not. Thanks |
Virtue:
Miserya - 50 EM/ELA Brute (Perma-shelved)
Adriana Rayne - 42 Katana/Dark Scrapper
Cyberpulse - 26 Super Strength/Willpower Brute
Steel Heart - 24 Invuln/Super Strength Tanker
I have yet to see the animation for Kinetic Melee's Assassin's Strike...
...did they actually call it Assassin's Strike!? Like Energy Melee's? They couldn't think of something....different?
Assassin's Force
Assassin's Touch
Assassin's Smite
Assassin's Smash
Assassin's Charge
Assassin's Flourish
Assassin's Harrow
....uh, Assassin's Siphon?
Really need to see the animation to be able to think of anything else.
I've heard it called Assadoken or something to that effect on beta channel several times.
Culex's resistance guide
Making Assassin strike video just for you... ill post when its uploaded...
ok assassin strike video is >>>here<<<.
Finally. Kamehameha in CoH. We needed that.
On another note, since the Tier 9 doesn't 'crit' like normal and instead recharges a power, does it give the 'Crit' message as floating text, or any indicator similar to the normal crit one to show the power's recharged? Is it hard to tell it's back up or not a problem?
I'm thinking I'll be making a KM/SD scrapper regardless of the changes to SD. Seems like stacking the +Dmg effects on a scrapper could lead to insane stunts and wonderful AV soloing..
Agggggh....
Jaxom, if you don't mind me asking a brief off-topic question, what program did you use to record your screen, and is it free? I tried downloading a couple of free screencap programs but I couldn't get anything to record at better than ~5 FPS, and my computer should be more than beefy enough to do better than that.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Out of topic : I'm not Jaxom, but I think many players use Fraps. It's a very good tool, but it's not free. There is a free option that so far has worked really well by me and is extremely simple to use, it's Wegame. With a decent or average computer, you should not have any problem to run any of those, good luck |
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Agggggh....
Jaxom, if you don't mind me asking a brief off-topic question, what program did you use to record your screen, and is it free? I tried downloading a couple of free screencap programs but I couldn't get anything to record at better than ~5 FPS, and my computer should be more than beefy enough to do better than that. |
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So KM 'might' do better single target dmg with 'sufficiently high recharge' and 'good use of power siphon'? But a set like claws is faster, better on end, has better mitigation (single target -dam isn't as valuable as any aoe mitigation) and 'blows KM away on AOE' (which is generally more valuable in an mmo, outside of fringe gamers who solo av's all day...). Hard to believe so many people criticized this gem, lol.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Given sufficiently high recharge and good use of Power Siphon, I think so. But Claws DPA has significant advantages, especially with regard to Focus. If Focused Burst was as fast as Focus, I would be more inclined to give the unambiguous edge to KM. Claws still blows it away on AoE of course.
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It must have something going for it, or else, by the way your message looks, everyone would be claws.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
So KM 'might' do better single target dmg with 'sufficiently high recharge' and 'good use of power siphon'? But a set like claws is faster, better on end, has better mitigation (single target -dam isn't as valuable as any aoe mitigation) and 'blows KM away on AOE' (which is generally more valuable in an mmo, outside of fringe gamers who solo av's all day...). Hard to believe so many people criticized this gem, lol.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
So KM 'might' do better single target dmg with 'sufficiently high recharge' and 'good use of power siphon'? But a set like claws is faster, better on end, has better mitigation (single target -dam isn't as valuable as any aoe mitigation) and 'blows KM away on AOE' (which is generally more valuable in an mmo, outside of fringe gamers who solo av's all day...). Hard to believe so many people criticized this gem, lol.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It must have something going for it, or else, by the way your message looks, everyone would be claws.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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KM can go with Shields and Claws can't, is one other reason to pick KM.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I didn't read it that way. I read it as "if choosing between the two, why would anyone bother with KM?" Besides concept, I don't have an answer for that.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Correct. And some of us ARE "fringe" players that like to tackle hard targets where KM's -damage WILL be of benefit especially when stacked on, say SR passive scaling damres.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
KM can go with Shields and Claws can't, is one other reason to pick KM.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Anyone who says Claws has better mitigation than KM is either lying or monumentally ignorant.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
So KM 'might' do better single target dmg with 'sufficiently high recharge' and 'good use of power siphon'? But a set like claws is faster, better on end, has better mitigation (single target -dam isn't as valuable as any aoe mitigation) and 'blows KM away on AOE' (which is generally more valuable in an mmo, outside of fringe gamers who solo av's all day...). Hard to believe so many people criticized this gem, lol.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
In all honesty, the whole set could be geared to mitigating masses while enabling one to focus on a single target with great damage over the long run - shields might be an excellent choice- especially for an AV with minions to feed AAO, but I couldnt stand waving one hand around - looks horrible. *sigh* May reconsider /sr vs /shield
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
Just so people can see the animations too I am uploading to youtube now, i'll post the link momentarily...