Going Rogue Morality System - In plain English.


15bribri15

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by MaxKnightHawk View Post
And you should read the first few Batman issues, the Caped Crusader carried a gun & did kill some bad guys (Detective Comics #32). As a matter of fact, the Batplane had a machine gun on it and Bats gunned a truck full of baddies (Batman #1, second story). Definitely Vigilante material.
True, but even in the latest, "darker, grittier" incarnations based on the original Batman, he STILL won't kill. It's generally presented as the last possible option for him, one that always presents a serious challenge to his moral system.

Also, it made more sense for Catwoman (or a character like Catwoman) to make the circle to Batman than go all the way to Superman.

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And I am real weak on DC comics, I don't even know the Red Hood.
Jason Todd, the second Robin. He was killed, but presumably came back to life, and sought revenge on everyone involved in his "death". He's also trying to outdo Batman. While he only goes after criminals, he's killed many of them.

Azreal was the second Batman, in the storyline where Bane broke Bruce Wayne's back. He was a much more violent and cruel version of Batman, to the point where even Bruce felt he had stepped over the line. After Bruce reclaimed his role, Azreal fell even further, becoming a very Punisher-like figure.

Batman is probably more the representative of the kind of hero that walks the line between the Hero and the Vigilante, neither one nor the other, but constantly shifting between the two. He would never step over the line, but he's not as "pure" as, say, Superman.


 

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post

What are the Alignment Powers?
Each time you shift morality or reinforce your morality and keep the same alignment for 7 days, you gain a special power. You can only have one of these powers at a time, and lose the previous one each time you shift morality:
  • Call to Justice
    Earned by: Doing the hero morality mission and keeping the same alignment for 7 days.

    Description: You inspire your nearby allies to bring justice to your foes. Using this power will moderately increase the damage and to hit of yourself and all nearby allies. Recharge: Very Long

    Effects:
    +10% ToHit for 30 sec (AoE, 25 ft radius, Allies)
    +40% Damage for 30 sec (AoE, 25 ft radius, Allies)
  • Fear Incarnate
    Earned by: Doing the vigilante morality mission and keeping the same alignment for 7 days.

    Description: You strike fear into the hearts of the guilty causing all nearby foes to tremble in fear for a short time. Fear Incarnate will only affect Minion and Underling class enemies. Affected foes will also have their To Hit chance reduced. Recharge: Very Long

    Effects:
    2.0 mag terrorize for 10 sec (AoE, 15 ft radius, 10 targets max)
    -10% ToHit for 15 sec (AoE, 15 ft radius, 10 targets max)
  • Frenzy

    Earned by: Doing the villain morality mission and keeping the same alignment for 7 days.

    Description: You drive yourself into a blind rage to strike down your foes! Upon activating this power you will increase your recharge rate. All Hero Archetypes, Masterminds, Corruptors and Soldiers of Arachnos will receive a high damage increase, Dominators will have their Domination bar filled, Brutes will have their Rage bar filled and Stalkers will be put into a hidden state and receive a minor damage buff. Recharge: Very Long

    Effects:
    30% recharge buff on self for 20 seconds
    60% increase to all damage for 20 seconds or Special (see description)
  • Duplicity

    Earned by: Doing the Rogue morality mission and keeping the same alignment for 7 days.

    Description: You trick nearby enemies causing weaker enemies like minions to become confused for a short time. Affected foes will also have their Damage output decreased. Recharge: Very Long

    Effects:
    2.00 mag confuse for 10 sec (AoE, 15 ft. radius, 10 targets max)
    -10% damage for 15 sec (AoE, 15 ft radius, 10 targets max)
I have a question about the Allignment Powers system. This guide says: "Each time you shift morality or reinforce your morality and keep the same alignment for 7 days, you gain a special power. You can only have one of these powers at a time, and lose the previous one each time you shift morality."

I have a Hero that I just did a heroic morality mission for and got Countdown to Justice. So does that mean in 7 days, I will get the Call to Justice power?

If so, what happens if before the 7 day wait is up, I do another Hero morality mission with this hero character? Do I lose the chance to get Call to Justice, and get a new Aligment power? Does going hero to hero, count as shifting morality as far as allignment powers go?

Lastly, Once I wait the 7 days and have the actual allignment power I can use, is it permanent? Or is it a temporary power that I will only be able to have for a certain amount of time?


 

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Originally Posted by SaraMC View Post
I have a Hero that I just did a heroic morality mission for and got Countdown to Justice. So does that mean in 7 days, I will get the Call to Justice power?
You should, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraMC View Post
If so, what happens if before the 7 day wait is up, I do another Hero morality mission with this hero character? Do I lose the chance to get Call to Justice, and get a new Aligment power? Does going hero to hero, count as shifting morality as far as allignment powers go?
If you do a second hero morality mission, the countdown should be unaffected. However if you did a vigilante morality mission, you'd lose Countdown to Justice, and get the countdown to the fearsome (I can't remember what it is called at the moment) power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraMC View Post
Lastly, Once I wait the 7 days and have the actual allignment power I can use, is it permanent? Or is it a temporary power that I will only be able to have for a certain amount of time?
It isn't permanent.




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Posted

Ok thanks so much! One of those questions I wouldn't have had to ask if I had looked at the Allignment Power section of the guide better...Didn't relize each of the 4 powers was granted for completing its own specific type of morality mission. (Call to Justice for completing Hero, Fear Incarnate for completing Vigilante..etc.) Was under the impression you would get any one of those 4 powers at random after completing any type of morality mission.

Thanks again!


 

Posted

Something that I think should be in the guide is that it's possible to change sides before hitting level 20.

I know that I personally saw it repeated over and over that you have to be level 20 to chance sides, but it turns out that's not the case. You have to be over 20 to get the missions, but even before then, it turns out you can change sides - you just have to be grouped with people who can get and do the missions. (Also, since you don't have the tip UI, you can't tell how far you are along.)

My level 18 corrupter is a Rogue now


 

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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
Something that I think should be in the guide is that it's possible to change sides before hitting level 20.

I know that I personally saw it repeated over and over that you have to be level 20 to chance sides, but it turns out that's not the case. You have to be over 20 to get the missions, but even before then, it turns out you can change sides - you just have to be grouped with people who can get and do the missions. (Also, since you don't have the tip UI, you can't tell how far you are along.)

My level 18 corrupter is a Rogue now
I suspect that is a bug as you don't even get the contact/alignment window until you train to level 20. If it was working for levels 1-19 there wouldn't need to be the restriction for critters to be level 20+ to drop tips.




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Posted

OK, I have a question. I've moved two Heroes to Vigilante status. Prior to shifting alignment, every Tip I received offered me the option to run it as Hero or Vigilante, as expected. Now that I have moved those two heroes to the Rogue Isles, planning on shifting them to Villain now, I am finding that Tips only offer me ONE morality option. Some are Villain and some are Vigilante, with no choice between the two.

Is that working as intended? I was under the impression that Tips always offered two options.


 

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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
OK, I have a question. I've moved two Heroes to Vigilante status. Prior to shifting alignment, every Tip I received offered me the option to run it as Hero or Vigilante, as expected. Now that I have moved those two heroes to the Rogue Isles, planning on shifting them to Villain now, I am finding that Tips only offer me ONE morality option. Some are Villain and some are Vigilante, with no choice between the two.

Is that working as intended? I was under the impression that Tips always offered two options.
I think that's as designed. The tips in the Isles offer you two choices, villain or rogue - but since you're a vigilante, you can't get rogue points, so you only see the one choice.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
OK, I have a question. I've moved two Heroes to Vigilante status. Prior to shifting alignment, every Tip I received offered me the option to run it as Hero or Vigilante, as expected. Now that I have moved those two heroes to the Rogue Isles, planning on shifting them to Villain now, I am finding that Tips only offer me ONE morality option. Some are Villain and some are Vigilante, with no choice between the two.

Is that working as intended? I was under the impression that Tips always offered two options.
Basically you can't get good-vigilante tips (only missions moving you to villain status) in the Isles, or evil-rogue tips (only missions moving you to hero status) in Paragon.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Basically you can't get good-vigilante tips (only missions moving you to villain status) in the Isles, or evil-rogue tips (only missions moving you to hero status) in Paragon.
So, basically, I just have to dismiss all these Vigilante only Tips I keep getting when I just want to finish shifting alignment to Villain, then? That's massively annoying and a serious waste of time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
So, basically, I just have to dismiss all these Vigilante only Tips I keep getting when I just want to finish shifting alignment to Villain, then? That's massively annoying and a serious waste of time.
No, that isn't what I said.

I said:
Quote:
you can't get good-vigilante tips (only missions moving you to villain status) in the Isles
Those missions labelled as "vigilante" in the Isles progress you towards being a villain. They are villain tips in disguise, like Decepticons.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
No, that isn't what I said.

I said:

Those missions labelled as "vigilante" in the Isles progress you towards being a villain. They are villain tips in disguise, like Decepticons.
OK, thanks for clarifying that. Doesn't make sense, and seems likely to confuse a lot of people though.


 

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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
They don't expire. The 20 hour timer prevents you form getting MORE fame points once the 5 boxes are filled. There is a separate morality meter that tracks your progress towards changing alignment. The only purpose of the 20 hour timer is to slow down the rate at which someone can change alignment.
Thank goodness. I thought I was never going to end up switching alignments only running a mission or two every few days.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
OK, thanks for clarifying that. Doesn't make sense, and seems likely to confuse a lot of people though.
That was mentioned several times in beta...




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Posted

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Morality missions ignore the 20 hour Fame Point/Counting tip timer.
Dang, this is what I came here to find out. Mine's bugged then - I have my fame points used for today but I'm on a going rogue Morality Mission that at the end says (when I click on the relative object) "You can't complete this objective yet." I bring the girl I'm escorting and nada.

I'm gonna try it again, after clearing the progress. This is really irksome since the mission features a bunch of orange Whisper Assassins that mop the floor with my Corruptor.

Edit: You say the morality missions were frequently bugged/ caused crashing in Beta? Or was this just the tip missions in general? I haven't come across a bug yet, but I'm wondering if there were any evident solutions other than repeating mission after resetting it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strayth View Post
Dang, this is what I came here to find out. Mine's bugged then - I have my fame points used for today but I'm on a going rogue Morality Mission that at the end says (when I click on the relative object) "You can't complete this objective yet." I bring the girl I'm escorting and nada.

I'm gonna try it again, after clearing the progress. This is really irksome since the mission features a bunch of orange Whisper Assassins that mop the floor with my Corruptor.
No, you are confusing two unrelated things. Fame Points show how many counting tips you have done during that day. Morality missions have absolutely nothing to do with Fame Points. The problems you are describing are self-contained in that mission. You are either not completing an objective (defeating or talking to a NPC) or the objective needs the NPC to be lead to that objective to complete the task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strayth View Post
Edit: You say the morality missions were frequently bugged/ caused crashing in Beta? Or was this just the tip missions in general? I haven't come across a bug yet, but I'm wondering if there were any evident solutions other than repeating mission after resetting it.
It would be helpful to know which mission you are talking about. There are around 180 tip missions spanning levels 20-50. Of which there are 12 actual morality missions that I know of.




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Posted

Great mini Guide! Wish I would have found this earlier.

Just wanted to add another very good way to back and forth between hero <--> vill zones:

Midnighters Club. Don't go to Crim just run straight through....

And a question: To get the Villain Epics on a toon that was originally a Hero do I need to go full villain so I can get the mish from the Arbiter that introduces you to Ghost Widow, Scirocco etc... then do their Arc to unlock the epics?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Cause View Post
And a question: To get the Villain Epics on a toon that was originally a Hero do I need to go full villain so I can get the mish from the Arbiter that introduces you to Ghost Widow, Scirocco etc... then do their Arc to unlock the epics?
Yes, you do need to go full villain. If you are level 41 or above, you should get the contact automatically.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
The alignment switch I was talking about was only one step on the alignment wheel. Fame points start decaying as soon as you get them, the hint text is non-existent for the first hour, for 1 hour to 19 hours the hint text tells you that you have been famous for that deed from the time you've completed it, after 19 hours the hint text counts down the remaining hour. All the time the Fame Point icon is shrinking, on its journey into nothingness.

Here is an example:

Keep in mind that you can have either 5-Fame Points in tips or 3 tips at any one time, whichever is less. Also note that while I am calling the fame points 1-20, it is only for descriptive purposes as you can only have 5 Fame Points at a time.

  1. You are a hero.
  2. Get 3 tip mission drops.
  3. Fame point 1: Complete tip mission 1, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 1 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • Fame slot 1 is filled.
  4. Fame point 2: Complete tip mission 2, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 2 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours. Hopefully during this mission you'll get another tip drop.
    • Fame slot 2 is filled.
  5. Fame point 3: Complete tip mission 3, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 3 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours. Hopefully during this mission you'll get another tip drop.
    • Fame slot 3 is filled.
  6. Fame point 4: Complete tip mission 4, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 4 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • If you still have a tip, you'll not get any more tips at this point.
    • If you don't have a tip, you can get one more to do the next Fame Point.
    • Fame slot 4 is filled.
  7. Fame point 5: Complete tip mission 5, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 5 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 1 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 1) to get more tips.
    • Fame slot 5 is filled.
  8. Wait up to 20 hours for the Fame Point 1 to expire, or even all of them (if you've done the 5 missions in under an hour). As the Fame points expire the used Fame Point slots move to the left. The right most slot is the slot that will decay the soonest. For the sake of argument, let's say that all the Fame Point slots are empty at this point.
  9. Get however many tip mission drops you can at this point (5-Fame Points worth, to a max of 3).
  10. Fame point 6: Complete tip mission 6, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 6 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 1 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 1) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 1 is filled.
  11. Fame point 7: Complete tip mission 7, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 7 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 2 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 2) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 2 is filled.
  12. Fame point 8: Complete tip mission 8, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 8 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 3 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 3) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 3 is filled.
  13. Fame point 9: Complete tip mission 9, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 9 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 4 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 4) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 4 is filled.
  14. Fame point 10: Complete tip mission 10, vigilante option.
    • This will get you 1 vigilante fame point, for a total of 10 vigilante points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 5 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 5) to get another alignment tip.
    • Fame slot 5 is filled.
  15. Get a tip drop. This will be a morality mission as morality missions ignore the fame point timer.
  16. Complete vigilante morality mission, accept warnings.
  17. Congratulations, you are a vigilante. This can be done in around 22 hours (21 if you are really working on it). The Fame Point timers are still in effect for regular alignment missions.

To take it to the next alignment step (to villain) will require about 40 more hours. Head to the Rogue Isles for tips.
  1. Wait up to 20 hours for Fame Point 6 to expire, or even all of them (if you've done the 5 missions in under an hour). For the sake of argument, let's say that all the Fame Point slots are empty at this point.
  2. Get however many tip mission drops you can at this point (5-Fame Points worth, to a max of 3).
  3. Fame point 11: Complete tip mission 11, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 1 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 7 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 7) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 1 is filled.
  4. Fame point 12: Complete tip mission 12, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 2 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 8 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 8) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 2 is filled.
  5. Fame point 13: Complete tip mission 13, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 3 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 9 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 9) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 3 is filled.
  6. Fame point 14: Complete tip mission 14, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 4 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 10 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 10) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 4 is filled.
  7. Fame point 15: Complete tip mission 15, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 5 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 11 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 11) to get another alignment tip.
    • Fame slot 5 is filled.
  8. Wait up to 20 hours for Fame Point 11 to expire, or even all of them (if you've done the 5 missions in under an hour). For the sake of argument, let's say that all the Fame Point slots are empty at this point.
  9. Get however many tip mission drops you can at this point (5-Fame Points worth, to a max of 3).
  10. Fame point 16: Complete tip mission 16, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 6 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 12 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 12) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 1 is filled.
  11. Fame point 17: Complete tip mission 17, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 7 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 13 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 13) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 2 is filled.
  12. Fame point 18: Complete tip mission 18, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 8 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 14 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 14) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 3 is filled.
  13. Fame point 19: Complete tip mission 19, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 9 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 15 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 15) to get another tip.
    • Fame slot 4 is filled.
  14. Fame point 20: Complete tip mission 20, villain option.
    • This will get you 1 villain fame point, for a total of 10 villain points.
    • This fame point will decay to nothing over the next 20 hours.
    • At this point you'll have to wait for Fame Point 16 to be forgotten (20 hours after getting Fame Point 16) to get another alignment tip.
    • Fame slot 5 is filled.
  15. Get a tip drop. This will be a morality mission as morality missions ignore the fame point timer.
  16. Complete villain morality mission, accept warnings.
  17. Congratulations, you are a villain. This can be done in around 63 hours (62 if you are really working on it). The Fame Point timers are still in effect for regular alignment missions.
This is best explanation I have seen is is full of win. Thanks Snow Globe. This particular post should be reviewed by devs and posted in FAQ's as well as a sticky on the boards. Actually I think that a small tutorial arc should be offered the first time one calls Redemption to explain this as well as it is not obvious if you just picked up the game and started playing. They created short tutorial arcs for inventions and architect, and I found the morality system a more confusing at first glance. This post helped me quite a bit.


 

Posted

I agree, an excellent guide, Snow Globe!

I'm feeling either tired or n00b-ish, so here's my question:

My Hero is now a Vigilante, and I'm running around in CoV. I find that I can only do newspaper missions and have no contacts. So I would have to become a Villain to get new contacts, correct?

Just a side note on Going Rogue Beta, which kinda sucked was after picking to be a Hero or Villain, that once I left Praetoria and went to Paragon, that I couldn't go back, even though I started my toon in Rogue, but before I was 20, I could go to Pocket D from the Studio club and vice versa. I just thought it odd of getting the message of not being able to switching dimension when my Rogue toon came from there, again hitting the 20 mark and switching to Paragon etc. I was hoping for more major switching between the 3 main zones/cities or is that a plan down the road in newer expansions??


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Usagi63 View Post
My Hero is now a Vigilante, and I'm running around in CoV. I find that I can only do newspaper missions and have no contacts. So I would have to become a Villain to get new contacts, correct?
As a vigilante you can do newspaper missions to get contacts. You will not be able to do missions from those contacts until you become a villain though. You can still do all the hero contacts you have or team with villains to do their missions.




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Posted

One question that I think I know the answer to but am not 100% sure about:

If we enter the opposite zone (vigilante enters RI), our current missions drop. It indicates that we can get them back later if we switch back...is that correct? If I take a hero to villian and come back, I'll be able to get that mission back from the contact?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
One question that I think I know the answer to but am not 100% sure about:

If we enter the opposite zone (vigilante enters RI), our current missions drop. It indicates that we can get them back later if we switch back...is that correct? If I take a hero to villian and come back, I'll be able to get that mission back from the contact?
Tips come back instantly if you haven't done a morality mission before.

The other missions you have to call or go back to the contact to get the mission again.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Tips come back instantly if you haven't done a morality mission before.

The other missions you have to call or go back to the contact to get the mission again.
Thanks! Just wanted to make sure about that one.


 

Posted

I think I have the hang of most of the system now. There’s one more question I’d like to ask about Morality missions.

I know they ignore the Fame timer. I know they drop as your next Tip, if you have 10/10 in the chosen alignment. However, are they limited by the “3 Tips Max” rule though?

Real Example = My Rogue is now 10/10 Hero Alignment bar. Fame is irrelevant for Morality Missions, I know. However, due to a huge map, just before he got 10/10 on someone ELSE’S Tip, he EXIT-ed with 3 Tips, before getting that 10th Hero Alignment shift.

It’s been a while, and, despite lots of fighting, no morality mission (yet). Now, I’ve had dry patches when it comes to Tip Drops, so, it could just be a bad RNG streak. But, just so I’m not wasting my time…

Will I get a Morality mission as my next Tip drop despite that I’m at 3 Tips? Or, am I blocked against Morality missions until I dismiss one of the 3 Tips (to make room)?

I hope the above made sense.