Going Rogue Morality System - In plain English.
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2010-08-10 13:04 in Player Guides
That last post should definitely be in the guide, Snow. I wasn't in the beta at all, but this was very clear in how I would progress through moralities.
Save Paragon one more time! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,4877.0.html
Petition to end shutting down CoH:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Very well done, and thank you. 
Can anyone explain why I'm getting Tip missions even if I haven't bought Going Rogue? I assume it's some sort of bug?
Quote:
Not a bug. You can get tip missions, but cannot change alignments with only Issue 18.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Can anyone explain why I'm getting Tip missions even if I haven't bought Going Rogue? I assume it's some sort of bug?
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Ah ok. I see. Cheers.
|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Not a bug. You can get tip missions, but cannot change alignments with only Issue 18.
|
I have a quick question. Can my friend, who is level 20, get tip missions when teamed with me when I'm at level 18? He is the mission leader.
Quote:
Only if the critters defeated are level 20+.
|
Originally Posted by RoseT
I have a quick question. Can my friend, who is level 20, get tip missions when teamed with me when I'm at level 18? He is the mission leader.
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Hm...we've been street sweeping level 22's for just over an hour and he hasn't gotten a tip mission yet. I know it normally doesn't matter, but could it matter who actually makes the kill
|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Only if the critters defeated are level 20+.
|
Something odd is going on with teaming.
I had my two alts, both at level 50, sweep in Dark Astoria for the easy kills of large spawns.
Toon leader got 3 tips and the toon sitter got 1. And then no more. I killed *a lot* more foes and no more tips for the second toon. I switched leadership, I switched who was doing the kills. Still, no more tips.
So, I broke the team and had the toon with just 1 tip start killing. And withing 2 minutes he got 2 more tips.
Odd.
Tips are as common as enhancement drops. And killing bosses is usually a good way to get one immediately.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Awesome guide that obviously took a lot of time to put together (not just playing and working though it, but actually organizing and writing it).
I still have a question: if you are a (say) hero and then select hero missions to reaffirm your hero status, are you then "stuck" as a hero? Or can you later decide to become a vigilante (then villain, rogue, back to hero)? Can you do this cycle numerous times or just once? (not sure why you'd want to do the whole cycle numerous times on one toon, but am curious on that point)
Also, I do see the concept behind not having villain porters in hero bases (and vice versa), but isn't this only a problem for role-players? I mean I could care less if there are a bunch of "evil" porters in my hero base--it's about convenience and cutting travel time more than anything, but rp sg's may choose not to place them. As someone wrote, it would make sense to be able to place them but to only allow vills/rogues to use "evil" porters and heroes/vigilantes to use "heroic" porters. This could open a whole new avenue for base design and layout, too. Just my twenty-two cents (adjusted for inflation).
Btw, I like how you separate Praetoria from the alignment switching; they're two totally different things. Well, right now anyway (though I guess one day they'll expand Praetoria beyond lvl 20, filling in the levels between 20 and the lvl 50 Incarnate content).
Answer to your first question, Tahliah:
There is no limit to how many times you can run Tip/Morality missions to reconfirm or change your alignment. The only limiter is the availability of Fame slots (max 5), which get filled by doing the Tip missions.
Each Fame slot has a 20 hour cool down cycle. To most people this means they will earn 5 alignment points a day. Though it could also be thus: 2 on day 1 (@ 2 hours), 2 on day 1.5 (@ 12 hours), 3 on day 2 (@ 24 hours), 1 on day 2.5 (@ 34 hours), 4 on day 3 (@ 48 hours), etc
Quote:
Thanks, I didn't want to take my hero badge toon to RI and get stuck there |
Originally Posted by Yydr
Answer to your first question, Tahliah:
There is no limit to how many times you can run Tip/Morality missions to reconfirm or change your alignment. The only limiter is the availability of Fame slots (max 5), which get filled by doing the Tip missions. Each Fame slot has a 20 hour cool down cycle. To most people this means they will earn 5 alignment points a day. Though it could also be thus: 2 on day 1 (@ 2 hours), 2 on day 1.5 (@ 12 hours), 3 on day 2 (@ 24 hours), 1 on day 2.5 (@ 34 hours), 4 on day 3 (@ 48 hours), etc |
Snow, I thought that the progression was:
Hero <-> Vigilante <-> ROGUE <-> Villain
But what you put here seems to suggest that you go from directly from Vigilante (access to both sides) to FULL Villain (no blueside content at all) and without having to cross Rogue status. Is that correct because I didn't think it was the case previously.
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
Quote:
Thanks, and apparently I'm going to have more time to work on this as Gamestop didn't ship any Canadian Pre-Orders...|
Originally Posted by Tahliah
Awesome guide that obviously took a lot of time to put together (not just playing and working though it, but actually organizing and writing it).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tahliah
I still have a question: if you are a (say) hero and then select hero missions to reaffirm your hero status, are you then "stuck" as a hero? Or can you later decide to become a vigilante (then villain, rogue, back to hero)? Can you do this cycle numerous times or just once? (not sure why you'd want to do the whole cycle numerous times on one toon, but am curious on that point)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tahliah
Also, I do see the concept behind not having villain porters in hero bases (and vice versa), but isn't this only a problem for role-players? I mean I could care less if there are a bunch of "evil" porters in my hero base--it's about convenience and cutting travel time more than anything, but rp sg's may choose not to place them. As someone wrote, it would make sense to be able to place them but to only allow vills/rogues to use "evil" porters and heroes/vigilantes to use "heroic" porters. This could open a whole new avenue for base design and layout, too. Just my twenty-two cents (adjusted for inflation).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by twelfth
Snow, I thought that the progression was:
Hero <-> Vigilante <-> ROGUE <-> Villain But what you put here seems to suggest that you go from directly from Vigilante (access to both sides) to FULL Villain (no blueside content at all) and without having to cross Rogue status. Is that correct because I didn't think it was the case previously. |
Vigilantes can return to being true heroes, stay vigilantes, or turn villain. They cannot turn rogue.
Villains can stay true or turn rogue, but cannot turn vigilante.
Rogues can return to being true villains, stay rogues, or become heroes. They cannot turn vigilante.
Hero <-> Vigilante -> Villain <-> Rogue -> Hero.
There was a redname post even before beta that explained that.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Thanks for the update Snow. I don't particularly like that there's such a (to me) jarring jump from Vigilante to Villain. I believed that there was a bit smoother transition to the "fall from grace", but that just means that I'll have to plan my alignment progression a bit more carefully than previously thought.
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by westfallen
So. A rogue can use his redside base if he was originally a villain, correct?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yes, a villain or rogue can use a villain base.
|
I've got a Hero toon who is the Super-Leader of an SG. Will taking them from Hero to Vigilante cause them to lose SG Leader status? Or, is that only if they continue go on to Villain?
The in-game FAQ is a little soft on whether any alignment change causes the leader to lose the Red Star or if it is Blueside vs. Redside changes.
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
Quote:
Only if they turn villain, not vigilante. Likewise a Super Leader in a Villain group loses that status when they turn Hero.
|
Originally Posted by twelfth
I presume that the issue the is the same with Hero/Vigilante. I know I looked at the alignment contact's thread on this ingame, but here's my question:
I've got a Hero toon who is the Super-Leader of an SG. Will taking them from Hero to Vigilante cause them to lose SG Leader status? Or, is that only if they continue go on to Villain? The in-game FAQ is a little soft on whether any alignment change causes the leader to lose the Red Star or if it is Blueside vs. Redside changes. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Another good reason to do the Hero or Villain Morality mission multiple times (other than what previous posters said) is that is how you earn Hero and Villain Merits. Those Merits can be turned in at the Hero/Villain lounges for special perks. |
Originally Posted by Tahliah
I still have a question: if you are a (say) hero and then select hero missions to reaffirm your hero status, are you then "stuck" as a hero? Or can you later decide to become a vigilante (then villain, rogue, back to hero)? Can you do this cycle numerous times or just once? (not sure why you'd want to do the whole cycle numerous times on one toon, but am curious on that point)
|
In other words, you can "stay pure", just going Hero over and over, and get as much out of the system as someone who is constantly shifting from Hero to Villain over and over again and doing lots of other things in both areas. It's not exactly the same, of course, but gives you something to work for with the system, if you want.
Quote:
| Also, I do see the concept behind not having villain porters in hero bases (and vice versa), but isn't this only a problem for role-players? |
Since you wouldn't have teleporters to the "other side" in your base anyway, that leaves only a teammate's base, if you happen to be a "tourist" teaming with a team leader from the other side. Being unable to use his base if his SG has chosen to allow access to it to teammates is considered to be a problem. A big problem, to some.
I personally think just letting "tourists" enter bases as guests if the permissions are set to allow them should not conceptually cause any problem. It just gets down to the technology.
Quote:
While it seems like that would be a more gradual change (and really, some people have said the change when you go over to the Rogue Isles and start knocking over banks seems abrupt |
Originally Posted by twelfth
Hero <-> Vigilante <-> ROGUE <-> Villain
|
) in fact what I think the devs were trying to do is delay the amount of time it takes you -- in terms of the technology -- to change from Hero to Villain. That is, a Vigilante is a Hero, and a Rogue is a Villain. If the system worked like the above, you could switch back and forth between Vigilante and Rogue, changing sides every time you did. As it is, Vigilante to Villain and Rogue to Hero is a ONE WAY transfer. It's also the only way to switch sides. Once you go Villain, your only option is to go Rogue, and you're not REALLY a Hero until you switch one more time. So it takes two changes in Alignment, not just one, to fully switch sides.
I personally have found it helps to look at it as not that Vigilantes are closer to Heroes, and Rogues are closer to Villains. Rather, they're pretty much the same thing, they're "grey". But whether they are a Vigilante or Rogue is determined by where they were. They're a "grey", but they used to be a Hero, so they're a Vigilante. They're toeing the line, but haven't stepped over it yet. So you can still consider them a hero even if some of the things they do seem villainous.
Fantastic guide!
Just one tiny addition -- you can also use the Midnighter Club to travel between Paragon and the Rogue Isles. It's kind of awesome, actually. I've more than once taken a hero or villain and clicked on the doors to the other side, so when they actually opened for my Vigilante it felt very cool. :-)
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Thanks, Jade Dragon, that's very helpful and makes a lot of sense.
Fantastic guide, thanks for all the work!
In true comic book fashion, the alignment loop is:
Captain America <> Punisher <> Red Skull <> Deadpool
or
Superman <> Batman <> Joker <> Catwoman
Hehehe!
Quote:
More like:|
Originally Posted by MaxKnightHawk
Fantastic guide, thanks for all the work!
In true comic book fashion, the alignment loop is: Captain America <> Punisher <> Red Skull <> Deadpool or Superman <> Batman <> Joker <> Catwoman Hehehe! |
Captain America <> Punisher -> Red Skull <> Deadpool -> Captain America
or
Batman <> Red Hood -> Joker <> Catwoman -> Batman
It is mostly a one-way circle. And while Batman is technically a Vigilante, I think he would be a Hero, or at least a Hero/Vigilante, as this game defines it. He will not kill, while by definition a Vigilante will.
(I also could have put Azreal instead of Red Hood, but went with a more recent choice)
The thing is, while it seems it would be easier for Deadpool to become the Punisher than Captain America, in fact if he ever DID become Captain America, there would be no turning back. There's plenty of room for Deadpool to act like Punisher, but he does so not out of vengeance, but because he's Deadpool. Because it's fun.
I wasn't going for the "This guy could turn into that guy." thing. I was just trying to show what existing copyrighted figure fits the description. And I didn't bother bringing them full circle, I was hoping it was implied. :-)
And you should read the first few Batman issues, the Caped Crusader carried a gun & did kill some bad guys (Detective Comics #32). As a matter of fact, the Batplane had a machine gun on it and Bats gunned a truck full of baddies (Batman #1, second story). Definitely Vigilante material.
And I am real weak on DC comics, I don't even know the Red Hood.
Ah, that breakdown really clarifies it. TYVM for all the info and work you've put into this Snow Globe
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans