How long to hit the Inf Cap?
By
Archie Gremlin,
Posted on: 2010-08-01 09:20 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Also, they're really not that uncommon. While I was helping Archie get set up for this, I did some monitoring of turnover for various IOs and I saw several large accidental overbids go through. One of them was someone who had apparently typoed the inf cap on an IO that was selling for 100-200 million. (I did think it would've been pretty funny to hit 2 billion on Day One, from something like that, but alas it was not to be.)
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Originally Posted by Canine
And since market conditions fluctuate constantly then a lucky windfall is just that, lucky.
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
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That's for the response. I wasn't really asking for advice, just curious as to how you were doing it 
good luck!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Also, they're really not that uncommon. While I was helping Archie get set up for this, I did some monitoring of turnover for various IOs and I saw several large accidental overbids go through. One of them was someone who had apparently typoed the inf cap on an IO that was selling for 100-200 million. (I did think it would've been pretty funny to hit 2 billion on Day One, from something like that, but alas it was not to be.)
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I think Ive already backed off the point...but let me try again
If this was a "how-to" thead and someone said..."Step 1: Get Lucky and hit on 200M inf typo" Id call shenanigans....this isnt. Therefore the point is moot.
Also, Im not sure something can be deemed both lucky and common at the same time.
--Frog
It probably is not all that uncommon for someone to type in the wrong amount for a bid: buying or selling. It is lucky for the OP that it was in the amount that it was so therefore, it is both common and lucky.
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Originally Posted by FallenValkyrja
It probably is not all that uncommon for someone to type in the wrong amount for a bid: buying or selling. It is lucky for the OP that it was in the amount that it was so therefore, it is both common and lucky.
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Nice try....but no, those two examples are not the same thing.
You can make just as much from farming alone. No niches needed. Just selling drops, uncrafted i've made billions and put billions into toons. Not knocking what youre doing, just saying.
Just since yesterday farming the Warrior map in PI, i've leveled a tank to 27, and made over 300mil in drops. So, to 1 bil, a decent Fire/Kin should hit the cap in less than a week. Throw in marketeering AND farming, prolly less.
Now, on a naked toon(new lev 1), no farming/marketeering, getting to the cap could take years. lol.
Quote:
Someone (not me) is going to do this in a week or two just to prove you wrong. |
Originally Posted by eryq2
Now, on a naked toon(new lev 1), no farming/marketeering, getting to the cap could take years. lol. |
P.S. I also think marketeering is often preferred to farming because RL puts less constraints on the amount of inf you can make through market than it does on farming.
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Quote:
I've always wondered what people were doing when they say "Inf is too hard to earn"|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
And people say what we do is "hard."
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I did something similar to this on several of my scrappers. (Began a few months ago.) Each of them started off with nothing. I set my goal to 400 million for each scrapper, and as of today, 3 of them have surpassed that. (Working on my 4th and 5th scrappers now.)
My brutes had the easiest time. They also started off with nothing. They blinked, and bam, 450 million on each brute. (I have two)
What do I do? I just play missions and cash in AE tickets when I play missions in AE. Average time for each character: about a week.
I probably should have set my goal for each character higher.
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Quote:
Thing is, not everyone is market savvy or has a lot of time.|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
I've always wondered what people were doing when they say "Inf is too hard to earn"
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In my own play groups, I have a fair number of people that log in, shoot bad guys or PvP then log out. Whatever they get they can't use gets vendored or deleted, only occasionally do they use the Market for anything more than salvage purchases (they consider it a store and when they don't like the store's prices they ignore it and grind) and so on.
So...if all you do is your missions at +0/+0, vendor stuff and occasionally list for 1 and get some thousands, occasionally millions back, you're not going to be swimming in inf. When you see what Archie and Fury Flechette did, it took some involvement beyond "press a button to shoot bad guy, press a button to list for 1 on Market" and that's likely what frustrated people. Heck, I have a good friend that's an occasional player now that hardly ever uses the Market except for salvage purchases and when they get "too expensive" he uses AE. He rarely sells anything at the Market unless the last 5 are for 50 million+. He complains bitterly about a piece of salvage being worth 5 million and a LOTG 150 million, but his Mind/Psy Dom is Perma at level 30...heh.
It's easy for us to forget that a whole lot of people out there don't read the forums and just get frustrated when they see high prices on the Market. Not everyone know what pools certain items come from or whether what they have is worth anything.
If you team a lot, you might not get a lot of great drops either...so yeah, I don't have hard numbers but I imagine there are a fair number of players that see high prices, get frustrated and either move on or come here to complain about prices and ask for caps. Since a lot of the income is generated at 50, you wonder if they get to 50.
I mean, inf isn't an issue here at all (just outfitted my Grav/TA
) but I certainly wouldn't expect a new player to be able to flip crafted IOs, know which pools to roll stuff for and so on. The inquisitive will ask here, others will complain while others will get frustrated and either stay because of the gameplay and use SOs or just figure it out on their own.
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Quote:
You can make as much but not nearly as fast. And certainly not as efficiently. You'd have to spent hours upon hours farming. Marketeering relies on purchases made offline to build wealth.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
You can make just as much from farming alone. No niches needed. Just selling drops, uncrafted i've made billions and put billions into toons. Not knocking what youre doing, just saying.
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I've done both and marketeering beats farming hands down. With that said, doing both in concert is faster than one alone. However, I lost patience for farming long ago even though I have several completed purpled out/PvP-IO'ed builds that can do it as efficiently as anyone would care to.
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I dont disagree. I actually like farming and playing the toons i put the inf into tho. I could care less about and actually let the wife do the crafting for the enh. I dont have the patience req'd to mess with it. I earn them and let her craft them. lol. Now if i didn't have to run back and forth to the base to craft it might be different. And cross referencing items needed. I earn recipes way too fast.|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
You can make as much but not nearly as fast. And certainly not as efficiently. You'd have to spent hours upon hours farming. Marketeering relies on purchases made offline to build wealth.
I've done both and marketeering beats farming hands down. With that said, doing both in concert is faster than one alone. However, I lost patience for farming long ago even though I have several completed purpled out/PvP-IO'ed builds that can do it as efficiently as anyone would care to. |
I wouldnt say it's inefficient to farm. You get to do a couple things. Chat with friends (if ur not solo), play the powerhouse toons we've built and it dont take real long to get good drops to sell to you crafters. Within 10 minutes yesterday i got a respec drop. Thats 100mil at the sell it now price on one run alone. As i said earlier, i made over 300 mil yesterday just selling stuff.
But if i or anyone liked to do both, i could imagine the inf made in a week.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Thing is, not everyone is market savvy or has a lot of time.
In my own play groups, I have a fair number of people that log in, shoot bad guys or PvP then log out. Whatever they get they can't use gets vendored or deleted, only occasionally do they use the Market for anything more than salvage purchases (they consider it a store and when they don't like the store's prices they ignore it and grind) and so on. So...if all you do is your missions at +0/+0, vendor stuff and occasionally list for 1 and get some thousands, occasionally millions back, you're not going to be swimming in inf. When you see what Archie and Fury Flechette did, it took some involvement beyond "press a button to shoot bad guy, press a button to list for 1 on Market" and that's likely what frustrated people. Heck, I have a good friend that's an occasional player now that hardly ever uses the Market except for salvage purchases and when they get "too expensive" he uses AE. He rarely sells anything at the Market unless the last 5 are for 50 million+. He complains bitterly about a piece of salvage being worth 5 million and a LOTG 150 million, but his Mind/Psy Dom is Perma at level 30...heh. It's easy for us to forget that a whole lot of people out there don't read the forums and just get frustrated when they see high prices on the Market. Not everyone know what pools certain items come from or whether what they have is worth anything. If you team a lot, you might not get a lot of great drops either...so yeah, I don't have hard numbers but I imagine there are a fair number of players that see high prices, get frustrated and either move on or come here to complain about prices and ask for caps. Since a lot of the income is generated at 50, you wonder if they get to 50. I mean, inf isn't an issue here at all (just outfitted my Grav/TA ) but I certainly wouldn't expect a new player to be able to flip crafted IOs, know which pools to roll stuff for and so on. The inquisitive will ask here, others will complain while others will get frustrated and either stay because of the gameplay and use SOs or just figure it out on their own. |
Valid points. I will admit that in the past, when someone would say that they didn't even know about the forums, I would raise my eyebrow in confusion.
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End of day 4 total worth:- 1538.7 million.
Errm.. the numbers don't seem to add up for today. I made 400m so I'd expect my net worth to have increased to about 1700m. I seem to have lost about 150m down the back of the sofa. I'll investigate this evening.
It was a tough day trading even though I was able to check my niches during the day. Virtually all the niches I check have seen price falls and there didn't seem to be all the much activity. I've moved into several new niches and had to re-list quite a lot of stuff at lower prices.
Cash:- 768.2 million.
Recipes and IOs owned:- 476.5 million.
Salvage:- 71.0 million.
Bids:- 223.0 million.
Trades today: 37
Profit today: 426.6M
Average profit per trade: 11.5M
Turnover today: 1027.5M
Average sale price per trade: 27.7M
Total purchase price: 498.0M
Average purchase price per trade: 13.4M
End of day 5 total worth:- 2154.4 million.
Nearly there. I just need to convert assets to cash.
Yesterday was incredibly slow until about midnight GMT. It was the slowest day I'd had so far. After midnight, sales took off. Three quarters of these sales took place in the last 7 hours!
Prices have been weird as well. In some of my niches, the recipes have been double the price of the IO's for quite some time. Very strange. Now that the sales volume is picking up the prices are returning to more normal amounts as well.
As for my accounting irregularities, I think I got the maths wrong when added up my net worth the day before yesterday. I'm pretty sure these figures are correct. (I've calculated it in two different ways and the number match to within a couple of percent.)
Cash:- 1522.5 million.
Recipes and IOs owned:- 527.6 million.
Salvage:- 82.9 million.
Bids:- 21.5 million.
Trades today: 42
Profit today: 414.0M
Average profit per trade: 10.0M
Turnover today: 883.8M
Average sale price per trade: 21.0M
Total purchase price: 372.2M
Average purchase price per trade: 8.9M
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Quite. It took me a few months to find out how to really work the markets and I was really interested. I made my first 100m by crafting commons. It was quite fun in a mad way. Sometimes they were selling faster than I could run back and forth to the university. (No SG then!)|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Thing is, not everyone is market savvy or has a lot of time.
In my own play groups, I have a fair number of people that log in, shoot bad guys or PvP then log out. ... |
When I did start crafting sets I nearly gave it up. The first couple of things I crafted just wouldn't sell! I expected to sell them in a day and ended up stuck with them for weeks. I got hit by a particularly bad shift in market prices!
So I agree with Neuronia, crafting is "easy" but you do need to know what you're doing. If you've only got a few million inf to your name then it feels like a horrible risk and it is. You can end up with all your inf tied up in stock that won't sell.
The single biggest piece of advice I'd give to anyone who wants to start crafting is "start slow" and expect the price of a niche to collapse at any moment.
Start slow means watch your chosen niche for a while (preferably a week) to see how it behaves. Then buy and sell 1 IO. If that works, buy a couple more. Don't risk more than 10% of your capital on any one trade 'cos you'll probably lose big on at least one of them! Don't buy lots of stock just because the profit margin is so big at the moment. It probably won't last!
The other big bit of advice is, "do the maths". You've got to work out the likely profit. It's often not what it looks like. I'm always surprised by how little margin there is on big ticket items. Aim to double your money on your early trades and use a lowish listing price. That way, you're unlikely to get stuck.
Of course, some people just don't want to mess with the markets. That's fine.
1 could make a killing on lev 25 accuracies and end red alone. I just came back after a couple months off and they are hitting 400k.... REALLY? Ouch. Even for a multi billionaire, im not paying ridiculous amounts. It cost like 10grand to make or so. (if memorized)
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You hate people who use the market. I'm sorry but you really shouldn't respond here. Market 101 isn't about making ridiculous amounts back.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
1 could make a killing on lev 25 accuracies and end red alone. I just came back after a couple months off and they are hitting 400k.... REALLY? Ouch. Even for a multi billionaire, im not paying ridiculous amounts. It cost like 10grand to make or so. (if memorized)
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I've noticed you running a-wild in every thread you were wrong in, since rep was disabled. Just because you dislike something, doesn't mean it's wrong. It usually means you're wrong. Get over the markets.. (market). There's been so many guides telling/showing you what to do. Any failures now land on your lap.
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[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
Finish total worth:- 2,415.4 million.
Elapsed time:- 5 days, 8 hours, 36 minutes.
The best guess was Fury Flechette. Gratz!
Things were pretty slow this morning so I did some farming. I didn't fancy doing ticket rolls with full slots so I farmed the Battle Maiden map. I made about 40 million in cash and common IO sales. I also struck a bit of gold. 1 Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage worth about 90 million and a respec recipe which I sold for 67 million. I actually hit the inf cap before the purple sold so it didn't actually help me hit the target.
Cash:- 2,000.0 million.
Recipes and IOs owned:- 393.7 million.
Salvage:- 21.7 million.
Bids:- 0.0 million.
Trades today: 16
Profit today: 245.7M
Average profit per trade: 15.4M
Turnover today: 531.3M
Average sale price per trade: 33.2M
Total purchase price: 231.3M
Average purchase price per trade: 14.5M
Congrats Archie, nice little thread
Grats, Archie! That's very fast. And I'll admit that it's faster than I've ever done it for the simple reason that I usually spend more time offline during trades.
Now that you set the benchmark, it would be interesting to see someone beat 5 days 8 hours 36 minutes.
Thanks.
Maybe someone could do it over a long weekend. e.g. Start first thing on Friday and finish before bed time on Sunday. That'd be cool.
FWIW I did quite a lot of preparation for this including various bits of practice. I wanted to make sure that I had a base, a handy farm map etc and a reasonable trading strategy. I reckoned I had a 50/50 chance of finishing in under 7 days. I was surprised that it took less than 6.
I'd just like to say thanks to Grouchybeast who helped with the preparation. She spent ages surveying niches to see what was interesting and trying to find out when stuff sells. (We're on an EU server so peak trading time is in the middle of the night!)
P.S. She didn't do anything to help during the challenge except to feed me!
Thanks Grouchy.
Excellent work, Archie.
Once again, it demonstrates the result of some knowledge and some effort.
In your specific case, you put in a lot of effort to achieve extraordinary results,
but it's also pretty clear that with ~1/10 of the effort, someone could still hit
the inf cap in a couple months or so if they could grasp the simple equation:
K + E = I
Knowledge + Effort = All the inf you realistically ever need.
Nicely Done!
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eryq2
1 could make a killing on lev 25 accuracies and end red alone. I just came back after a couple months off and they are hitting 400k.... REALLY? Ouch. Even for a multi billionaire, im not paying ridiculous amounts.
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I regularly drop 500k on common IOs I need as a TY! to the player who took the time to craft it.
In any case, my real time is worth infinitely more than my play money.
/edit
and GRATZ Archie!
Great thread, lots of fun.
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My City Was Gone
End of day 3 total worth:- 1281.0 million.
I wasn't able to check my trades at lunch time yesterday and things were quiet in the evening so profit is down quite a bit. I'm hoping for a better day today.
Cash:- 675.3 million.
Recipes and IOs owned:- 464.1 million.
Salvage:- 63.0 million.
Bids:- 78.6 million.
Trades today: 30
Profit today: 301.0M
Average profit per trade: 10.0M
Turnover today: 568.0M
Average sale price per trade: 18.9M
Total purchase price: 201.1M
Average purchase price per trade: 7.0M