Honestly I'm going to have trouble narrowing it down. If you're looking more for 'lack of skill' than 'jerks', that'll help me winnow it down a bit.
You gave them 2 stars!?
Complaining about PuG members lack of skill ruining a team is kind of like blaming the goalie for losing the hockey game. I've never been on a team where I could legitimately say that one or two people were so incompetent that we all failed as a result. People should keep in mind that on a PuG team, everyone is a PuG team member and the team's success or failure doesn't rest on the shoulders of one scapegoat who didn't take the powers you wanted them to take.
I needed Citadel Task Force on my Grav/TA, Freedom Server.
I'm putzing around Talos when a group is forming, so I decide what the hey, I'll get my badge and 40 Merits!
We started around 6:25 p.m. and finished around 10:00 p.m., sigh.
The highlights:
- The leader, a Tanker, would NOT start until we had a "healer". I pointed out that taking more damage would be better, since we'd kill mobs faster but he would not relent.
- We finally got a "healer" in the form of a Radiation Emission Defender, who thankfully also cast AM and used toggles in between spamming Radiant Aura.
- Our team was two Tankers, one Grav/TA Controller (me), one Rad/Arrows Defender, one Electric/Electric Blaster, one Assault Rifle/Ice Blaster, one SPine/Invuln Scrapper and one Shield Scrapper. Sounds like a balanced team right? WRONG. The Shield Scrapper got bored after three missions, the Elec Blaster afkd for half the final part of the TF and didn't want to COME to the last mission, despite us asking them to come in so they would get a reward and the badge.
The Rad Defender had an older system (fair enough) so it took a loooooooooooooooing time for them to load into Dark Astoria. By then we were down to two Tankers, the Rad, the Spine Scrapper and my Grav/TA.
We wait for the Rad Defender to load in and Assemble at Vandal (the pool room, yay!). We make short work of him but the worst part was that people were afking constantly, asking for heal0rs from the Rad, the Spine Scrapper went on to solo mobs and then ask for rez constantly and one of the Tankers was: "Ur pet is bouncing mobz I can't herd, plz release pet." >.<
At about the halfway point of the TF (the defeats in IP), people wanted to know when it was over. We'd explained at the start this was about 13 missions, several defeat alls and all Council and everyone seemed fine with it at the time. However, one of the people logged to "have dinner brb" and didn't return for like...45 minutes. Most of the TF was the two Tankers, myself and one of the Scrappers killing stuff, slowly. Very slowly. We urged the Electric Blaster to join the fun several times only to get: "I only fight from range, getting close I die a lot.
"Despite it all, we finished arguably the longest TF run I've ever been on since my early days of doing a pug Posi TF on my half-SOd Mind/Bubbler with disconnects...and everyone was happy.
The lead Tanker had been trying to get Citadel done for Task Force Commander for ages, but apparently couldn't find five other people to do the tf with them...
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Maybe a year or so ago, I'm mentoring a friends son through his first ITF.
I'd made it explicit that this was his first ITF, and that he wasn't a very experienced player. I'd also asked a few questions first that'd lead me to believe that the team captain was going to be running a sedate, non-speeded ITF.
We spash down several times in the first mission because he's running around like a madman and screaming for us to save him when he got too far ahead of us.
Essentially he was playing a "mastermind" and his teammates were his minions.
We finally finish it with some prodding from me, losing one person who got sick of the constant deaths.
So I have a talk with him and ask him to calm down a bit and stick with the team.
We get into the cyst mission and before most of us are done zoning, he's run off and gotten himself killed and is screaming for us to come get him so he doesn't have to go to the hospital.
One more drops and I don't have anything I can give him. So he hosps, and I inform him in team chat that if we were coordinating we wouldn't die so much.
He tells me that dying a bunch is no big deal. Another guy on the team with me says "WRONG ANSWER!" and drops. At this point he's already run off again and just let the kid with me know he should drop.
I have the player note still today and if I ever come across the guy again, I won't be teaming with him.
The next worst was also on an ITF. We'd gotten to Rommy almost seamlessly and then splashed down. We hit him four times and just couldn't do it, burning all our inspies doing so. We didn't have the damage to zerg (3 tanks) and the team leader kept trying to. Finally one other tank and I harrangued him into farming for inspies. So we farmed up a full set of inspies for everyone then proceeded in a classic nictus pull.
Down goes Rommy! Down goes Rommy!
The team captain quit without a word to anyone.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Somewhat true, but this doesn't change the fact some people are really awefull players, even after several years of gaming. You don't have to fail a mission or even struggle badly to get annoyed by the incompetence of some people. And I don't mean inexperience or semi-effective thematic builds (have enough of those myself), but simple incompetence, usually caused or at least enhanced by peoples' thick headedness and inability to take friendly advice, or in the case of some TF/SF's, refusal to follow orders.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Complaining about PuG members lack of skill ruining a team is kind of like blaming the goalie for losing the hockey game. I've never been on a team where I could legitimately say that one or two people were so incompetent that we all failed as a result. People should keep in mind that on a PuG team, everyone is a PuG team member and the team's success or failure doesn't rest on the shoulders of one scapegoat who didn't take the powers you wanted them to take.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Your post actually reminded me that I was wrong when I said I have had no teams that were ruined by one member being a tool. Fire/Kins on Master runs invariably screw it up, because they think that they are unstoppable forces for soloing everything that refuse to listen. So, I must retract my previous statement.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Somewhat true, but this doesn't change the fact some people are really awefull players, even after several years of gaming. You don't have to fail a mission or even struggle badly to get annoyed by the incompetence of some people. And I don't mean inexperience or semi-effective thematic builds (have enough of those myself), but simple incompetence, usually caused or at least enhanced by peoples' thick headedness and inability to take friendly advice, or in the case of some TF/SF's, refusal to follow orders.
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Now that I think about it, almost every incompetent player I have met and remembered was either a tank or a fire/kin.
Hmm. Worst PUG Experience ever...
Well, I've had a lot, like a Katie's with a Tank who didn't have taunt and swore it could hold aggro with melee-attacks. Not with hurricane running and no to hit buffs deary. I've been on Task Force's where I've actually kicked the tank for being an idiot. I've been on teams where the Fire / Kin's didn't have Increase Density and couldn't figure out why on earth why they were expected to have it. I've been on teams where I've had to explain to the Storm that their O2 boost could stop the Malta's sapper drain. I've been on (old) Posi's where we got to the final mission in Perez Park and then the team leader says we "have" to go to Faultline cause we have to go to the Dam.
There's just a lot to choose from.
I think though the worst P.U.G. I've ever been on is one that I actually used in an explanation of why MMO's don't grant leadership skills.
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In the original post I called this particular player out directly for this rampant display of abject... psychosis. I think the mods would get mad if I do that again.
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City of Heroes then, as a more typical MMORPG, also represents emperical data that simply playing an MMO, even for a long time, doesn't grant management skills. Very recently I ran a Cap Au Diable Strke Force with a rather... obnoxious player. One of the basis of City of Heroes is that a team leader is signified by a star over their name. The starred player can invite new players to the team, kick current players on the team, and select new missions without actually having to be at the mission door. However, just because somebody has the star, doesn't mean that they are actually the team leader, or the one choosing the missions. ... Going back to the Cap Au Diable SF, the person who put the SF together had started with the star, and early on the SF was directing the fight... which was a good thing. The player knew how to work the SF. After a couple of disconnects, I wound up with the star, and promptly kept asking the experienced villain side player what to do, where to go next... only to get no response. As far as the player was concerned, whoever had star made the choices, no matter what... and then after the TF the player went off on a rant that I hadn't "abdicated" my position and that if I hadn't wanted to lead the Strike Force I should have just quit, logged out, and given somebody else the star. |
Usually the worst PUGs I have been on are not bad because of players with odd builds or lack of experience, but instead with a "know-it-all" player who insists on trying to micromanage everyone elses characters and how they "should" play them. Aside from sucking the fun out of the experience, people like this almost always tend to "know" a hell of a lot less than they like to think.
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
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I agree partially. But I have seen situations where the player had made power choices that were sub-optimal, and then proceeded to do everything possible to 'capitalize' on the build problems.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Complaining about PuG members lack of skill ruining a team is kind of like blaming the goalie for losing the hockey game. I've never been on a team where I could legitimately say that one or two people were so incompetent that we all failed as a result. People should keep in mind that on a PuG team, everyone is a PuG team member and the team's success or failure doesn't rest on the shoulders of one scapegoat who didn't take the powers you wanted them to take.
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Case in point: I was on a PUG doing the Praetorian War arc. We get to the mission with Shadowhunter and the map full of wolves. The invuln tank, who had just joined before that mission, volunteered to herd them so we could AoE them. Sounded reasonable. The tank runs toward a group and dies in seconds. Recalled and rezzed. Repeat of the insta-death.
I'm thinking, "Wow, how could she be dying so fast?" I check the power icon display next to the team window and see she doesn't have Temporary Invulnerability on. I have a premonition of doom and check her powers. She doesn't have the power at all. Okay, not going to crucify someone over skipping one power but, if your smashing resistance is like 15-20%, you simply can not herd those wolves. The power selection was 'questionable' but the tactics were completely boneheaded and the worst possible thing to do.
I pointed out the incompatibility between the powers she had and the plan to herd. She went ballistic. She insisted she had been playing for years and knew what she was doing. To prove this, she charged another group of wolves and died in seconds for the third time. At that point, she went to the hospital and quit the team.
Textbook example of a noob.
I'll save the horror stories about scrappers who skipped their mez protection for another time.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Fire/Kins on Master runs invariably screw it up, because they think that they are unstoppable forces for soloing everything that refuse to listen. So, I must retract my previous statement.
Now that I think about it, almost every incompetent player I have met and remembered was either a tank or a fire/kin. |
I have a fire/kin, built specifically for farming, who is a very welcome addition to any team.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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When I'm playing my Kinetics defender, I love teaming with an incompetent fire/kin. Vengance is on a three-minute recharge, which is about how long it takes a fire/kin to go from one faceplant to the next.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Now that I think about it, almost every incompetent player I have met and remembered was either a tank or a fire/kin.
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Yeah, it's unfair of me to paint them all with the same brush. Most likely, an incompetent fire/kin would be as useless as a scrapper or defender, too. It's the singer, not the song, as they say. Bad players are bad players, regardless of AT.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Now you malign fire/kins. Bite me.
I have a fire/kin, built specifically for farming, who is a very welcome addition to any team. |
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How about both? |
Originally Posted by Psychoti
Honestly I'm going to have trouble narrowing it down. If you're looking more for 'lack of skill' than 'jerks', that'll help me winnow it down a bit.
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Worst PUG I was ever on had one of those leaders fixated on "higher level mobs = Moar XPEES = BEST XPEES" despite a few pf us on the team attempting to educate him. Mind you, this was back when street sweeping was common, pre-indoor debt nerf.
Most of us couldn't really hit much. I remember quiting the team after stating the leader needed to get some tactics. Either the real thing or even just the power
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Really? |
Originally Posted by Katie V
When I'm playing my Kinetics defender, I love teaming with an incompetent fire/kin. Vengance is on a three-minute recharge, which is about how long it takes a fire/kin to go from one faceplant to the next.
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You've met Fire/Kins that live that long?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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well said.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Complaining about PuG members lack of skill ruining a team is kind of like blaming the goalie for losing the hockey game. I've never been on a team where I could legitimately say that one or two people were so incompetent that we all failed as a result. People should keep in mind that on a PuG team, everyone is a PuG team member and the team's success or failure doesn't rest on the shoulders of one scapegoat who didn't take the powers you wanted them to take.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
my worse PuG experience.
Well I can over look bad players, as they are commonly called because maybe they just not good at it but as long as they try.
The worse of PuG is that one guy that try to dictate how everyone should play his/her build or which powers a person should or should not take. Especially on some just random paper mishes where even the most messed up group of 8 people with the worse power slotting can pass easily. there are ways to educate a new player but berating them is not an effective means to and no wonder they wont listen. who would? You got some hard heads out there no matter how you put it but if the poor chap is trying, no vet badges, first or second toon, then give em a break. No one was born being uber at this game that I know of. Hell it might be a vet with their first defender or a vet with their first tank or maybe they didnt take taunt because they soloed 99% of the time or didnt take rez because they couldnt fit it in with their playstyle and power choices.
Each to a man's own though.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
my worst PUG experience was back in 2005, so I cannot recall all the details. I think all 8 team members, including myself, were stupid. Certainly we all lacked skill. The leader had pulled a Tsoo mission, in one of the lab maps, with that giant 3 tiered room packed to the gills with Tsoo. Somehow, most of the room got aggro'ed. Worse, caltrops were everywhere and it seemed that every 3rd NPC was a sorceror. Sorc's healing Sorc's healing Sorc's...
Keep in mind the game was young, the design was somewhat different back then, and most of us on the team had only a couple months experience at best. Did I mention we were also stupid? We faceplanted, hospital rezzed...rinse, repeat, for 2 HOURS in that room. I've never had the like since. we were on that one door mission for 3 hours. I cannot believe the team stayed together so long. The debt earned was phenominally high. The buddy with me, and I, swore off Tsoo for a long time after that.
The worst was where I was the dork
A 6 man pug Silver Mantis SF. The leader is running us on +4 unannounced. Says he wants it speed stealthed. Alright, kind of strange the +4 part wasn't mentioned ahead of time, but w/e.
People are dropping and there were several near wipes. A Spider and my brute are the toons I most noticed consistently staying alive and hitting the objectives.
We just finished the Disrupt Negotiations mish w/ all the Council and headed into to the longest mission, the kill all in Cap Au Diablo. Then in this order:
I get stuck on a load screenI didn't make it back on that night. So they had to roll into the two hardest missions of a +4 SF one teammate down. I didn't get complete a fun SF.
BSOD (loose sata cable)
Wife comes home with the kids earlier than expected.
That sucked.
I was loving it.
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Agreed. There is another varient on this as well. When you join a TF and you are the 7th person on the team and the leader says we we are looking for a controller. The team had a brute, a scrapper, 3 defenders and a blaster. Hmm maybe they were looking for that fire/kin for vengence.... (I kid I have one myself)|
Originally Posted by Fomsie
Usually the worst PUGs I have been on are not bad because of players with odd builds or lack of experience, but instead with a "know-it-all" player who insists on trying to micromanage everyone elses characters and how they "should" play them. Aside from sucking the fun out of the experience, people like this almost always tend to "know" a hell of a lot less than they like to think.
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And Lastly, Je_Saist you must be a bad pug magnet.
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Saw another just yesterday on a Sister Psyche TF, the quintessential suicide Blaster. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Textbook example of a noob.
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Everything seems fine as we start the TF. The team was formed via channels so the players are competent and their toons are well built. We go through the first few missions without incident. But this Blaster (An Elec/Elec as I recall) seems to be faceplanting a lot compared to the rest of the team, especially considering we had a Force Fields Controller applying shields and running Dispersion Bubble. At first I thought it was my fault since I was playing more freestyle (Using Nova and human form while saving Dwarf for when I needed it) than I usually do when on a large team without a Tank. But the Controller was kind enough to point out via tell that the Blaster was often running off to solo entire spawns of +1 Freakshow. He was right; I didn't have to watch for long before the Blaster went screaming into a spawn entirely on her own. The culmination of this behavior came when her Voltaic Sentinel (LOL!!!) aggroed a spawn and, instead of running away or even getting some distance, she charged straight up to a purple con Freak Tank and tried to Blap. Fail of the day  It was all in good fun until she started to piss off the DB/WP by using Thunderstrike right next to him and knocking enemies out of Rise to the Challenge. Fortunately by that time we were on the last room of the last mish. |
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)
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Okay, I'll join in. To be fair, I love PUGs, and I also love bad PUGs, since they make for great memories...|
Originally Posted by Timeshadow
Hey all. I was inspired to start this thread by my own experience with the...shall we say less than stellar player skill in Pick Up Groups.
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A long time ago, I had a kinetics/illusion controller, and I wanted to run Frostfire. This was pre-safeguard, so the Hollows were still popular, and Frostfire was often a rite of passage. I formed a PUG, and we went in. I'd done a million Frostfire missions, but I didn't expect everyone to be familiar with the first floor. In general, provided the team stays together, you advance into the first room, head left and engage along to the altar. In the past, I had mostly played tanks, and a PUG team would just follow me. The team had a split right there, with some engaging the nearest outcasts, some going past to look for the altar (aggroing two groups then) and some went right through the doors to get a head start on the next group. So that was a mess. After a pull back, and waiting for those who hit the hospital, we reformed and took care of the altar. Not everyone listened to warnings that altars explode. But the team had stayed together for that engagement, so that was good. We moved on to the corridor, the one with the first square split and we dealt with the group there. We were not bad. The other side of the split is the left turn corridor with the room at the elbow, and there are usually three separate groups. I call it the corridor of doom for a reason, and in my opinion, how the team handles this corridor is a litmus test on if the team will make it to Frostfire or not. I said as much: we are approaching the corridor of doom, we should take it slow on this one, we should pull to us. Half the team ran into the middle of the first group, which aggroed some of the elbow group. A scrapper then ran down the hall, past the elbow, aggroing the elbow room. One or two members took up position at the elbow, cementing the room aggro so all three groups were on us. The scrapper kept heading to the next room. I was kinetics, so I started laying down transfusion and trying to get some holds out. I typed for the scrapper to return, as people were in the red, dying, hitting their awakens, dying, some dying, awakening, and eating inspirations. The scrapper kept going, got into the next room, his status went yellow, he began moving back. It was fascinating to me that we would now have incoming. Team members began to quit. The mission in this incarnation was over, so I kicked the scrapper. A buddy of his on the team quit and began sending me lengthy /tells of what an *** I was for kicking his friend and if his buddy was acting up, it was my responsibility to mentor him appropriately. The merits of his argument can be debated. I'll freely admit that my kicking the scrapper was not done with objective deliberation, but I don't think I was wrong in my reaction. The three of us that remained hit the hosp, I reset the mission for the three of us, and we then eased through to Frostfire in the usual way. |
Virtue Server-
MA: (All SFMA, all technically long/very long, but all play quickly)
#200411 "Exploding Planet" (I apologize in advance for the final mission, but in all likelihood, the planet will explode.)
#144416 "Shadow of Grime Alley"
#161003 "You Don't Know Beanstalk, Jack"
It's really hard to narrow it down past 'jerks', since that's where I saved most of my chatlogs. One instance that sticks out in my memory is the "Light RP" team I joined a while back on Virtue.
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I had just rolled up a new character - scrapper, I think - and leveled myself to 7 or so doing the normal starter missions. Someone was broadcasting as looking for more players for radio missions + safeguard, so I figured "Why not?". I messaged them, they sent back a tell: "((Do you mind light RP?))" I didn't think that I would. I was wrong. To me, "RP" means "Roleplaying". It doesn't have to mean talking in Ye Olde English, it doesn't have to involve hobbits or cat-girls, it doesn't have to involve cybering. Thankfully, this guy didn't have any of those foibles that I see all too frequently. He had a different one completely. The leader of the team was a Tanker, level 10 I think. The rest of us were between levels 5 and 8. The majority of the team role-played to some degree, but the Tanker was downright annoying. Every group of enemies we would come to he would ask us to stop, form a line abreast, then wait for it.... (using the emote with a raised hand) Wait for it.... (using the emote with a raised hand still, 5-6 seconds later) CHARGE! (using the point emote) This got old fast, especially since he bound every attack and defensive power to a rotating group of quotes. Not just short ones, but some were a paragraph. Do you HAVE to quote a passage every time you punch someone? EVERY TIME? NO! This sucked the fun right out of the gameplay and the majority of the team left under various excuses. I ended up telling him that his idea of "light RP" really wasn't too fun for me, and left. He was upset and messaged me in Tells asking what he did wrong. I explained that the constant stopping and "Wait for its" then coupled with the massive strings of quotes that scrolled the chat window so fast you couldn't see when someone was asking for heals, buffs, or help... it was too much. He then got angry because he thought I was telling him how to play. I told him I wasn't telling him how to play, but he shouldn't be surprised when other people don't enjoy his method of roleplaying as much as he himself does. |
Lots of "nice" examples in this thread. Just remember it was started in '04.
//Jack
The Kickers base.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
-Groucho Marx
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Hmm. Worst PUG Experience ever...
Well, I've had a lot, like a Katie's with a Tank who didn't have taunt and swore it could hold aggro with melee-attacks. Not with hurricane running and no to hit buffs deary. I've been on Task Force's where I've actually kicked the tank for being an idiot. I've been on teams where the Fire / Kin's didn't have Increase Density and couldn't figure out why on earth why they were expected to have it. I've been on teams where I've had to explain to the Storm that their O2 boost could stop the Malta's sapper drain. I've been on (old) Posi's where we got to the final mission in Perez Park and then the team leader says we "have" to go to Faultline cause we have to go to the Dam. |
Welp, after 5+ years of casual play I have to say...WTH does any of that mean? No offense intended, but I have a life, I can't concern myself with knowing that 02 boost can stop a sapper drain - (really? like - in progress? Interrupt and reverse the drain? Who knew?) or why a Fire/Kin would be expected to have Increase Density (why?). But that doesn't keep me from being an effective player and PuG leader.
It's impossible to pinpoint one particular thing that makes a player or PuG bad or good. I've known good players to have a bad night or RL issues that kept them from playing at 100% attention/contribution. I've known bad players I've continued to invite because at least they were giving it their all.
Apologies for semi-derail, back to Worst PuGs please.
Hey all. I was inspired to start this thread by my own experience with the...shall we say less than stellar player skill in Pick Up Groups. While these groups often make me wanna pull my hair out they also amuse me after the fact. I wanted to share my trials and hope that others will do the same so we can all have a good laugh. Now, enough dribble. On with the show:
Posting as a quote to make it easily distinguishable from the rest. I'd prefer if others did the same but it's not necessary.
As they so often do, things started off well. But before long I started to notice some strange behavior by the Controller. They seemed intent on using Sonic Cage to take random minions out of the fight. As most experienced players know, what makes the Devouring Earth a threat in large numbers is their Lieutenants' ability to summon various types of pets which generate PBAoE buffs. Since Illusion largely lacks the means to lockdown such troublesome foes it would've made more sense to drop the cages on them or the generators themselves. I didn't think much of it but decided to check the Controller's powers profile just out of curiosity (Never seen a Sonic Resonance anything with Sonic Cage before). To my horror I discovered he had skipped Phantom Army. On top of that and his peculiar battle tactics (Go aggro monkey go!) he also failed to buff anyone with the ally shields (Sonic Barrier anyway. He didn't even have Sonic Haven).
After a few missions I started to get tired of playing tank. Fortunately the Blaster was willing to switch to his level 50 Tanker. When they got back I was happy to see their toon was a Stone/Axe. I thought, "Great. Now the rest of us can just sit back and worry about damage/buffs/control" I thought. But it didn't take long before I was /em facepalming again. Just like the Controller before them, our new tank was lacking in his understanding of anything more complex than SMASH!!! On multiple occasions he would engage up to and sometimes exceeding the aggro cap while ignoring the various buffing pets that were summoned. I repeatedly called on him to move the enemies away from the troublesome little things but he just continued to stand there wailing away while the Quartz and Cairns gave the DE a decided advantage.
I ended up two starring both the Controller and Blaster/Tanker. Fortunately the Defender was fantastic. She kept Fortitude on those who needed it and was willing to pay special attention to my PB (He really benefits from Defense buffs since they stack with his IO bonuses). Her heals were timely when needed and she made generous use of her secondary as well.
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