Hi, and thank you for your time.
The concept of the stalker is exactly what I have always wanted to play.
Early levels work out really well with this AT. I think the reason being is that 100% percent of the classes can not just bum rush a mob. The more the game progresses the less likely it is to find any class that cant take a full alpha.
Once you get in the 30+ range a decent tank type class will
will spawn hop. When 90% of the spawn is down the tank will start heading to the next area leaving the dps to finish off the leftovers.
Bosses at low levels are a real problem. So to have an AT around that can really take a bite out of them is just pure awesome. Later on it turns into just 5-15 extra seconds of widdling down the HPs.
Stalker 1-30? is a huge asset for taking down that "Big Dog" but after 30 bosses are just not a real issue for a decent tank type class. So the value of the Stalker drops like a rock.
"beating your party to the next mob"
1. The tank(insert AT here) sets this pace not the stalker
2. If you can beat your group to the next undefined mob location your are either psychic or leaving the spawn earlier and thus not contributing to the overall dps of the group.
Its very embarrassing to be holding hands with a boss only to realize you went left and the group went right.
Here are some of my thoughts based off what I have observed.
* Stalker needs a reason a real reason to get setup at the next group.
*Take the cast off of AS make the timer longer to compensate for no cast.( Balance it out in other words)
( its the class defining role. Why is it so heavily penalized on a fast moving group?)
Demoralize/Moralize
When these second in charge guys and minions see their boss going down they know whats coming next.
When your team views one of two bosses going down they also know whats coming next. Everyone gets that jump in moral as they know the fight is going in their favor.
So lets add an ae buff to AS.
It would need to be a very large area, we don't want everyone on top of the mob just trying to get the buff.
Make it a very short lived buff 20 seconds?
Lets maybe give it a random effect like mutate (Stalker gets turned into a monkey if he misses :P)
*Ideas*
* Increase recharge speed
* Increase damage
* Increase Crit Rate
* Increase defense cap
* Increase Stamina
* Decrease -res on mobs
* Decrease health regen
You get the point. You might even be able to give the stalker a different bonus than the rest of the party. 30% Vs.20% or some number that is not game or class breaking.
I think the class is 100% perfect 1-25 I believe after 25 every level gained diminishes what the Stalker brings to the party.
Brute-Stalker-Scrapper
Stalker=between a rock and a hard place. Good luck on your team balance.
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Honestly, it's up to you and your team who sets the pace. If you've got no Brutes or Tankers, then what? If you'd rather follow, then follow. If you'd rather lead then take initiative. I've done it. In fact, when there's multiple stalkers, it's a boon to coordinate. We know what mob we want to go to, which target each of us is picking, who's using BU, when the strike will occur. This all can be conveyed without type too.|
Originally Posted by InUse
1. The tank(insert AT here) sets this pace not the stalker
2. If you can beat your group to the next undefined mob location your are either psychic or leaving the spawn earlier and thus not contributing to the overall dps of the group. |
Then there's the 'scouting'. Not particularly running several mobs ahead and finding the glowie, no. The simple act of "Elite Boss in this spawn" or "Spawn around this corner" or "3 bosses here" so people can actually gauge what they're about to get into because not everyone can see through every cluster of NPCs or are invisible to go look for themselves or know what to look for.
If you're actually working *with* the team, then your Tank might actually use your insight and follow you to the next group because 2 guys going to the next spawn is less confusing than one guy going one way and another guy going another which may cause hesitation of the rest of the team.
Of course, if you want to just *be* the team and go all Scrapper-lock and do whatever the hell you want, then you can play a Brute or Scrap or just soft-cap your Stalker and go blow up spawns with AoEs separate from your team.
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Thank you.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Honestly, it's up to you and your team who sets the pace. If you've got no Brutes or Tankers, then what? If you'd rather follow, then follow. If you'd rather lead then take initiative. I've done it. In fact, when there's multiple stalkers, it's a boon to coordinate. We know what mob we want to go to, which target each of us is picking, who's using BU, when the strike will occur. This all can be conveyed without type too.
Then there's the 'scouting'. Not particularly running several mobs ahead and finding the glowie, no. The simple act of "Elite Boss in this spawn" or "Spawn around this corner" or "3 bosses here" so people can actually gauge what they're about to get into because not everyone can see through every cluster of NPCs or are invisible to go look for themselves or know what to look for. If you're actually working *with* the team, then your Tank might actually use your insight and follow you to the next group because 2 guys going to the next spawn is less confusing than one guy going one way and another guy going another which may cause hesitation of the rest of the team. Of course, if you want to just *be* the team and go all Scrapper-lock and do whatever the hell you want, then you can play a Brute or Scrap or just soft-cap your Stalker and go blow up spawns with AoEs separate from your team. |
I often find that scouting is unappreciated as a function in the group. Knowing what the fight is likely to entail increases survivability, and it is a function that Stalkers are adept at pulling off...
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Sadly, on some later level teams, it can become less of an issue with not knowing what's around the corner.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
Thank you.
I often find that scouting is unappreciated as a function in the group. Knowing what the fight is likely to entail increases survivability, and it is a function that Stalkers are adept at pulling off... |
Ran a Faathim of the Kind TF today with 4 Stalkers (KIN/WP-mine, DM/WP, DM/NIN, BS/NIN), a MM (Poison), two Trollers (Mind/FF and Plant/Emp), and a Tanker (Ice/Fire).
I think the Tanker was having a hard time keeping up with the stalkers (not a bad tanker), but the stalkers where just beating her to the spawns.
I'd lead off with a Burst from Hide, while the DM/NIN's would lead off with an AS when hidden by the next spawn (the DM/NIN was never the first into the spawns, but I know the player and she tends to be a bit more cautious...and face it...Raluruu laugh at stalkers...even ones with a stealth proc and a grant invisibility empowerment buff).
So basing it off that TF, I'd say there's a lot of tactics that can work, maybe you might have to change tactics team to team.
Now that statement is true for a lot of characters, true, but it seems good advice for the stalkers too
Personally, I like to sneak in, make a ruckus then repeat (ie...run into the spawn with hide and then just scrap it out thenmove onto the next).
Something to remember though...if you're a stalker, and there's a glowie in the mission, and it's a defeat all, do not go looking for the glowie, it's a waste.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Just 5-15 extra seconds? If you can say you saved the team that amount of time per spawn then you are contributing meaningful damage even if you are not contributing more total damage than someone who is mopping up trash minions by the bushel.|
Originally Posted by InUse
Bosses at low levels are a real problem. So to have an AT around that can really take a bite out of them is just pure awesome. Later on it turns into just 5-15 extra seconds of widdling down the HPs.
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| Stalker 1-30? is a huge asset for taking down that "Big Dog" but after 30 bosses are just not a real issue for a decent tank type class. So the value of the Stalker drops like a rock. |
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"beating your party to the next mob" 1. The tank(insert AT here) sets this pace not the stalker |
I say depends though because, especially with tanks, you can find some that will go left just because *you* went right so they can remind you to "follow the tank". This is one of the things I find less endearing about blueside now that I can take my stalkers there. I didn't find many prima-donna brutes redside who were such control freaks they couldn't stand someone else leading. Blueside? Some of them even have macros set up just to deliver their list of instructions on how everybody should do exactly as they say.But thankfully even this is rare.
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| 2. If you can beat your group to the next undefined mob location your are either psychic or leaving the spawn earlier and thus not contributing to the overall dps of the group. |
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*Take the cast off of AS make the timer longer to compensate for no cast.( Balance it out in other words) ( its the class defining role. Why is it so heavily penalized on a fast moving group?) |
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When your team views one of two bosses going down they also know whats coming next. Everyone gets that jump in moral as they know the fight is going in their favor. So lets add an ae buff to AS. |
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No offense to the Tanker, but if you have a FF Troller, than having a Tanker is pointless... (although I have to admit Tankers are the one AT that I generally avoid inviting to teams... Scrappers and Brutes are Tankers that can actually deal damage...)|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Sadly, on some later level teams, it can become less of an issue with not knowing what's around the corner.
Ran a Faathim of the Kind TF today with 4 Stalkers (KIN/WP-mine, DM/WP, DM/NIN, BS/NIN), a MM (Poison), two Trollers (Mind/FF and Plant/Emp), and a Tanker (Ice/Fire). I think the Tanker was having a hard time keeping up with the stalkers (not a bad tanker), but the stalkers where just beating her to the spawns. I'd lead off with a Burst from Hide, while the DM/NIN's would lead off with an AS when hidden by the next spawn (the DM/NIN was never the first into the spawns, but I know the player and she tends to be a bit more cautious...and face it...Raluruu laugh at stalkers...even ones with a stealth proc and a grant invisibility empowerment buff). So basing it off that TF, I'd say there's a lot of tactics that can work, maybe you might have to change tactics team to team. Now that statement is true for a lot of characters, true, but it seems good advice for the stalkers too Personally, I like to sneak in, make a ruckus then repeat (ie...run into the spawn with hide and then just scrap it out thenmove onto the next). Something to remember though...if you're a stalker, and there's a glowie in the mission, and it's a defeat all, do not go looking for the glowie, it's a waste. |
I didn't say that having a scout was always the most efficient tactic, just that it was under-appreciated. I was running a troller-only TF a while back, and SI saved us from walking into a trap on more than one occasion. But if you have a FF troller and four stalkers, that's one of the most potent combos out there...
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Just another reason not to team with tanks...
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Originally Posted by Zem
Depends. I find that on most teams it's the person in the lead... who leads.
I say depends though because, especially with tanks, you can find some that will go left just because *you* went right so they can remind you to "follow the tank". This is one of the things I find less endearing about blueside now that I can take my stalkers there. I didn't find many prima-donna brutes redside who were such control freaks they couldn't stand someone else leading. Blueside? Some of them even have macros set up just to deliver their list of instructions on how everybody should do exactly as they say. |
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Interesting, so would it be an AoE -ToHit fear if the mob survives, AoE team buff if you single shot them? Or would it be both if you single shot them or nay?|
Originally Posted by InUse
Demoralize/Moralize
When these second in charge guys and minions see their boss going down they know whats coming next. When your team views one of two bosses going down they also know whats coming next. Everyone gets that jump in moral as they know the fight is going in their favor. So lets add an ae buff to AS. It would need to be a very large area, we don't want everyone on top of the mob just trying to get the buff. Make it a very short lived buff 20 seconds? |
Also, would solo artists be able to take advantage of this?
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The thought was if you use AS the buff fires.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
Interesting, so would it be an AoE -ToHit fear if the mob survives, AoE team buff if you single shot them? Or would it be both if you single shot them or nay?
Also, would solo artists be able to take advantage of this? |
Stalker needs a slight buff to in dps so maybe (I don't know how the game engine works) the buff could be slightly amplified on the stalker.
What would people think about AS offering a strong AoE fear whether or not your opponent eats pavement?
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I"m all for it but wouldn't that be breaking the cottage rule?
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Originally Posted by Beelzy
What would people think about AS offering a strong AoE fear whether or not your opponent eats pavement?
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How? AS is still an interruptible melee attack, with very heavy critical damage and a chance of an AoE Fear and to-hit debuff. It's just a better fear/debuff.|
Originally Posted by Negate
I"m all for it but wouldn't that be breaking the cottage rule?
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Changing Conserve Power to Energize didn't break the Cottage Rule, because Energize was still a power that reduced the endurance cost of your other powers, even though the discount and duration got reduced. The Cottage Rule is just about removing functionality from a power.
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I thought the fear has something to do with a pet that was summoned if the mob guy survived no? I can't remember exactly but I thought the pet didn't get a chance to be summoned if you 1 shot the baddie you were targeting?
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
How? AS is still an interruptible melee attack, with very heavy critical damage and a chance of an AoE Fear and to-hit debuff. It's just a better fear/debuff.
Changing Conserve Power to Energize didn't break the Cottage Rule, because Energize was still a power that reduced the endurance cost of your other powers, even though the discount and duration got reduced. The Cottage Rule is just about removing functionality from a power. |
Well, based on changes that have happened recently, the "cottage rule" doesn't prevent them from changing how often a power does something (see: Cobra Strike's stun dropping from 100% to 75%), or even repurpose the power into something else entirely (Cobra Strike again, in becoming a viable attack, and Energize - sure it still has a minor end discount but it's primarily a heal/+regen power). It definately doesn't prevent them from changing how a power goes about doing the same thing (Chain Induction changing from the mob's pet to yours to prevent the xp loss/lack of buff carryover/chaining issues).
As for the pet getting summoned only if the guy survived, that's because it's attached to the target. If it were a PBAoE around the Stalker instead of the target, there would be some positioning issues compared to what you can do now (with a moving target that remains in LOS, since the Stalker can't move), but it would be able to appear even if the target dies - similar to the difference in Twilight's Grasp and Transfusion.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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The way that the power currently works is that AS summons a pseudo-pet with a very short duration linked to the mob your attacking, so if that mob dies, it dies (similar to the way that the Decoy Phantasm has a duration of 60s or until the mob it is linked to is killed in the Illusion Control set) that casts an AoE fear and an AoE ToHit debuff.
This was added in i12, therefore changing it to actually cast before the target would die would not break the cottage rule more than i12 changed the cottage rule... You would simply change it so that the pseudo-pet is summoned before the damage is dealt rather than after. And add an AoE +dam +ToHit for allies as well and we'll have that buff a previous poster termed moralize...
Actually the way Demoralize works is it grants the target a temp power that is flagged for immediate use. Which is why if the mob dies it doesn't work.
This is also why if a Freakshow that was AS'd rezzes the effect goes off again.They still have the temp power and it's still flagged for immediate use.
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Are you sure about that?|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Actually the way Demoralize works is it grants the target a temp power that is flagged for immediate use. Which is why if the mob dies it doesn't work.
This is also why if a Freakshow that was AS'd rezzes the effect goes off again.They still have the temp power and it's still flagged for immediate use. |
ifso, could the damage be delayed by a single tick so that the power goes off before the damage is dealt? I always thought it was like the sleep effect in Spectral Wounds which works with a pseudo-pet.
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Hrmm, that sounds doable actually.
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Originally Posted by Beelzy
Are you sure about that?
ifso, could the damage be delayed by a single tick so that the power goes off before the damage is dealt? I always thought it was like the sleep effect in Spectral Wounds which works with a pseudo-pet. |
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Where there's a will there's a beneficiary...|
Originally Posted by Negate
Hrmm, that sounds doable actually.
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I just always thought it peculiar that not dropping some guy is more demoralizing than dropping some guy... The question is whether a redname will step in to push for this minor change as a start to overall stalker improvements...
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Don't worry you are NOT alone. I hope they do step in and change things around like they did with Doms.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
Where there's a will there's a beneficiary...
I just always thought it peculiar that not dropping some guy is more demoralizing than dropping some guy... The question is whether a redname will step in to push for this minor change as a start to overall stalker improvements... |
I know If I was in a group of fellow ruffians and one of my buds right next to me started gurgling on his own blood b/c his throat was cut by something unseen and then the figure materialized out of thin air I would be scared out of my wits.
Should we be intrigued or worried about two new Task Forces being added for I19? Personally, I feel the greatest problems facing Stalkers isn't actually our powers or stats but rather the design of content and how rewards are given. At the very least, high level Resistance have naturally higher perception so hopefully Stalkers get a small edge over other stealthers.
Depends on if they just have higher perception or if they ignore stealth like Drones and KoA do.
Oh it's higher perception. They have Targeting Drones plus a weird hax stealth that toggles itself on and off but doesn't suppress. Powers are listed for them in Paragon Wiki. The biggest headache is that they have Rikti Drone styled defense (high ST defense but weak to AOE).
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I've always thought that killing your Boss in one hit is more Demoralizing than not finishing him off in one hit. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Actually the way Demoralize works is it grants the target a temp power that is flagged for immediate use. Which is why if the mob dies it doesn't work.
This is also why if a Freakshow that was AS'd rezzes the effect goes off again.They still have the temp power and it's still flagged for immediate use. |
You are rewarded for "not finishing" off the target immediately. weird..
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Just the last few days, I've ran an ITF with 3 stalkers on the team and a Abandon Sewers Trial with 3 stalkers on the team.
Survivability wasn't a problem.
And yes, stalkers tend to lack the AOE, and really that's never bothered me (other ATs have their single target oriented toons, Stalkers just tend to have it a little more).
Not as tough as a scrapper, but eh, still tough enough.
Just need more BOOM, and not instantly taking out bosses 10 levels lower than me, with AS, was just sad
97.78% Damage in my AS as well, with no procs.
I think upping the damage mod would fix that, or they could just up the AS damage on it's own I guess, without messing with the end/rch.
I'll recheck things tomorrow.
But all in all, I love my Stalker.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection