Quote:
Global buddy has a sd/electric melee, and gets paid 10-20 mil per solo farm run. Sd/SS would be great too. Shield charge will damn near kill everything and then Lightning rod, or foot stomp would have all but bosses dead. I would go SS because it has the ST dmg for the bosses. or SD/FM.|
Originally Posted by Army-Of-Jack
I've been wanting a new farmer, and decided I haven't tried a tank, so I want to make one, and for farming. I have heard fire/fire, fire/stone, etc. and all but they take about 2 hours to kill the mob, even though you don't get hurt. I want one who can take the damage LIKE a tank, but also give damage too, to actually take a mob out quickly. I was thinking an ice or stone defense tank, but tell me some good tank farmers in my particular reason. (And of course tell me how they are good for that matter)
|
Honestly really anything paird with shield defense will do great. Maybe a fire/fire/pyre will out perform, but that is only 20 seconds at a time.
protector-knight: lvl 50 invun/axe tank
Lillian Brick: lvl 50 stone/stone/pyre tank
Hybrid-knight: lvl 50 db/regen scrap
Vengful-Nature: lvl 50 spines/sr/bod scrap
Element-Wizard: lvl 50 fire/storm/stone troll
Quote:
shield is getting rebalanced remember. It won't be the nuke it is in a couple patches.
|
Originally Posted by protector_knight
Global buddy has a sd/electric melee, and gets paid 10-20 mil per solo farm run. Sd/SS would be great too. Shield charge will damn near kill everything and then Lightning rod, or foot stomp would have all but bosses dead. I would go SS because it has the ST dmg for the bosses. or SD/FM.
Honestly really anything paird with shield defense will do great. Maybe a fire/fire/pyre will out perform, but that is only 20 seconds at a time. |
Quote:
and you think they are gonna alter the power set that drastically? Shield defense ain't nothing with out SC, you reduce that, you can kiss shields good bye. Okay you can soft cap a shield, but even with that, they don't have the staying power that other sets do with out shield charge.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
shield is getting rebalanced remember. It won't be the nuke it is in a couple patches.
|
I hope it isn't power set ending nerf.
protector-knight: lvl 50 invun/axe tank
Lillian Brick: lvl 50 stone/stone/pyre tank
Hybrid-knight: lvl 50 db/regen scrap
Vengful-Nature: lvl 50 spines/sr/bod scrap
Element-Wizard: lvl 50 fire/storm/stone troll
It isn't really getting nerfed it is getting returned to its originally intended values, which someone messed up in a patch.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Quote:
Yep.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
It isn't really getting nerfed it is getting returned to its originally intended values, which someone messed up in a patch.
|
Read here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ge#post2837784
There was a leak a few weeks ago describing some of the in-testing changes for shield charge. From the leak we know that Castle is examining a higher recharge time, probably 2x or more, in order to keep the initial impact damage the same. We still don't know what the final numbers on the modified Shield Charge will be.
What we do know is that it will no longer outpace Blasters for DPS and will be significantly reigned back into scrapper values.
Quote:
| I hope it isn't power set ending nerf. |
Nerf is what happens when a balanced power is adjusted downwards with no compensating changes, or for no justified reasoning. Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set.
If you want to know what a true nerf is, go talk to Ultima Players, Everquest Players, former Planetside players, WarHammer players, WoW players, or just about any other MMO. A true nerf is when a developer just drops the values on an attack, item, or something else because they felt like it. I've been in games, such as Planetside, where weapon behavior would literally change overnight because it a developer felt it was wrong (Lasher, Lancer, Magrider, Thresher, Sunderer, Skeeter, Reaver... actually. Pick a Vanu gun, Vanu Vehicle, or pool vehicle and at some point some developer decided to just change it's attack values or attributes because they felt like it. No database, no datamining, just, change, see what happens.).
As of right now Shield Charge is massively overpowered. It is out of balance. As such, Shield Charge is being Re-Balanced.
Re-balancing is when a power, item, or in-game event, is brought into line with similar powers, items, or in-game events.
If you play Shield just for Shield Charge... well... honestly I feel sorry for you. Really, I do. Shields an excellent all-rounder set, and even without the baster class nuke without the end-drain it's still going to be a good all-rounder.
Quote:
This just seems plain wrong.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set.
|
If we agree to your definition of a nerf, it never happens : in every game, the devs will always think there is a "good" reason for such changes, and that's just rebalancing... Otherwise, why would they do them ? And there will always be some players to agree with them, just as you do now. So it can never be called a nerf... for those people at least.
If at the end you, the player, are left with a subpar version of what you had before, this is what we call a nerf. And there has been plenty in this game.
But buffs and nerfs, in the process of rebalancing, are unavoidable in a MMO. And there are rarely perfect, because perfect balance is hard to reach.
However, I agree that /Shield as it is now is overpowered in some areas, not only due to Shield Charge, but also to AAO buffing each one of your attacks to deal more damage than it would with another set.
Edit : and to answer the OP's question, SD/Fire/Fire, SD/Elec/Fire and SD/SS/Fire are certainly the three best picks for a tank farmer nowadays.
Quote:
This ! 100% true.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
If you play Shield just for Shield Charge... well... honestly I feel sorry for you. Really, I do. Shields an excellent all-rounder set, and even without the baster class nuke without the end-drain it's still going to be a good all-rounder.
|
Having finally tried Shields on a Tanker after only playing it on several scrapper combinations over the last year or so, I now know what it feels like to have Super Reflexes on a Tanker. Its the toughest Defense-Based character I have ever played pre-SOs and after I get him IOed out, I will be a monster. Dont even have Shield Charge yet, so whatever it gets changed to is still just icing on the cake to me. I am glad that I did not spend alot of time enjoying its current "state" because it would kinda suck, but that ONE power does not "define" the set. Now, if they touch AAO, THEN I will be pretty unhappy.
For the OP, my best Farmer to date is a WP/Fire Tanker. Simple, easy to level, easy to play and gets the job done. There are very few villains out there that are actually a problem, but anything that kills your regen is not fun.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
No I don't play my shield toon for Shield Charge. I play her because it allows me to create the concepts I love (medievil). It just seems like the "I win button" has spoiled me a bit. She does however have a 45 second recharge on it. A bit slow by a lot of peoples standards.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Yep.
If you play Shield just for Shield Charge... well... honestly I feel sorry for you. Really, I do. Shields an excellent all-rounder set, and even without the baster class nuke without the end-drain it's still going to be a good all-rounder. |
Also what I may be seeing is my tank durability and trying to think my scrapper has achieved that. She is tough as nails, can tank for most teams, even some AV's.
Thanks for reminding me... Not sure where the SD is crap with out SC came from. Maybe it is the near death hits. I dunno maybe I wish the set had a more balanced res/def feel. Curse me for roleing a invun tanker first :P
She is also the only scrapper I have that can solo +3x8 on a vast majority of enemy groups. Didn't mean to throw dirt on the power set like that. heh... damn. ur right SD is more rounded than I care to give it credit for. Sounds like I need to re connect with my favorate toon, over my 3+ yrs of game play.
protector-knight: lvl 50 invun/axe tank
Lillian Brick: lvl 50 stone/stone/pyre tank
Hybrid-knight: lvl 50 db/regen scrap
Vengful-Nature: lvl 50 spines/sr/bod scrap
Element-Wizard: lvl 50 fire/storm/stone troll
Quote:
thirded. Just for experiment sake I just have done a +4/x8 no bosses radio with my semi-IOed lvl 49 SD/Elec... Half the spawns with SC other half with SC removed from the trays. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
I am glad that I did not spend alot of time enjoying its current "state" because it would kinda suck, but that ONE power does not "define" the set. Now, if they touch AAO, THEN I will be pretty unhappy.
|
Ok, no SC means no "speed of farm" (mainly because you got more strays with full health) but you still can do pretty much everything you did with SC. And it was still fun to play.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 3dent
thirded. Just for experiment sake I just have done a +4/x8 no bosses radio with my semi-IOed lvl 49 SD/Elec... Half the spawns with SC other half with SC removed from the trays.
Ok, no SC means no "speed of farm" (mainly because you got more strays with full health) but you still can do pretty much everything you did with SC. And it was still fun to play. |
That is true. (I've done the same thing, used all three of my SD toons without SC available at all: The change is nearly imperceptible.)
The problem with SD isn't only in SC, it's in AAO. Against All Odds is a toggle +damage, and VERY strong, to-boot.
The toggle means it does not affect your damage chain. You don't have to pause to hit build up (although build up is a joke, DPS-wise). You don't have to work in a sub-par attack either. (Oh, followup, how I love and loathe thee in equal measure.)
SD needs at least one or two further adjustments AFTER they fix Shield Charge.
But that's just my opinion. What do I know?
Quote:
It seems you have forgotten about how much of a gem Against All Odds is. Not that one power makes the set, but AAO has a more consistent and reliable effect on gameplay than SC.
|
Originally Posted by protector_knight
and you think they are gonna alter the power set that drastically? Shield defense ain't nothing with out SC, you reduce that, you can kiss shields good bye. Okay you can soft cap a shield, but even with that, they don't have the staying power that other sets do with out shield charge.
I hope it isn't power set ending nerf. |
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
I farm with either a Fire/Fire Tanker or a SD/Axe Tanker.Both Rip mobs apart rather fast.
Quote:
I can't help but snicker reading this. I think you are lending to much of a credit to the term nerf. Obviously nerf has to do with making a power less powerful, but there is not always compensating going on. Most of the time it's take and no give. Some of the time it's cut off a hand and give back a thumb, lol | Nerf is what happens when a balanced power is adjusted downwards with no compensating changes, or for no justified reasoning. Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set. |
I'm probably snickering 'cause I'm remembering when regen scrappers were the red-headed step children of CoH and were "nerfed" or "balanced" with almost every update for over a year
Then there was the burn power, oh what a ride it's had. Anyway your choices are few: learn to live with it, try to campaign for less severe changes after it's changed, or move on to other power sets. Personally, I've made decisions for each option.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
Quote:
Castle posted in the thread about tweaking Shield Charge that he is fine with how AAO works. It's strong, sure, but it's not out of whack like Shield Charge is right now. And as I pointed out in that thread a long time ago, even if he ups the recharge significantly or reduces the damage to what it once was, it's still going to do good damage. I actually haven't played my Shields/SS much since it got the buff, and it was ridiculously good before that buff.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
That is true. (I've done the same thing, used all three of my SD toons without SC available at all: The change is nearly imperceptible.)
The problem with SD isn't only in SC, it's in AAO. Against All Odds is a toggle +damage, and VERY strong, to-boot. The toggle means it does not affect your damage chain. You don't have to pause to hit build up (although build up is a joke, DPS-wise). You don't have to work in a sub-par attack either. (Oh, followup, how I love and loathe thee in equal measure.) SD needs at least one or two further adjustments AFTER they fix Shield Charge. But that's just my opinion. What do I know? |
To the OP, Fire/Fire is pretty good with multiple mobs. I have pretty good success with a couple of the builds in my sig.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Have to ask.
Someone mentioned how they might be doubling the recharge of SC.
How does it get this far when it's "supposedly" that broken.
*shrug* oversight. Devs been busy with GR.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
Good point.
|
Originally Posted by Silas
*shrug* oversight. Devs been busy with GR.
|
Quote:
Yopu just destroyed any credibility you could've had in that long statement with a single sentence.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set.
|
As far as being "overpowered"...I'm SICK of the devs...who get paid to put this @$&! together correctly, not takign the time to test something sufficiently, then wanting to take back something that players have had in thier hands for months!
Alot of people have spent alot of time and money (both influence and game fees for the time they've spent buildign thier shielder). If you're going to nerf, "adjust," or alter the set in any way, the only decent thing to do would be to give those who already have Shield toons the option of continuing the way it worked when they made the toon, or switchign to the new guidelines. Anything else eseentially $#@!s on all that time and effort / money.
I have a Fire/Stone/Pyre farming tank that melts mobs. He's not quite as fast as my best runs with my Fire/Kin, but he's not that far behind. Plus, he never dies. The AoE possibilities are sick and the single target damage with Seismic Smash is as good as you'll see on a tank. Tanks aren't the best farmers, but with a considered (possibly expensive) build, you can make one that will do the trick admirably.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
Quote:
That's the way it works in MMOs. You're not guaranteed of anything staying the same. While our respec system could use some help, CoX is pretty easy on us in that regard. And our devs are even better... they don't like changing things precipitously, and things like the cottage rule help keep powers from changing too drastically. Still, thinking no changes are going to happen in an MMO is a bit unrealistic, so I would adjust your expectations a bit.|
Originally Posted by troy26
Yopu just destroyed any credibility you could've had in that long statement with a single sentence.
As far as being "overpowered"...I'm SICK of the devs...who get paid to put this @$&! together correctly, not takign the time to test something sufficiently, then wanting to take back something that players have had in thier hands for months! Alot of people have spent alot of time and money (both influence and game fees for the time they've spent buildign thier shielder). If you're going to nerf, "adjust," or alter the set in any way, the only decent thing to do would be to give those who already have Shield toons the option of continuing the way it worked when they made the toon, or switchign to the new guidelines. Anything else eseentially $#@!s on all that time and effort / money. |
And that's all before you get into what MIGHT happen to Shield Charge. At worst, it'll take longer to recharge or go back to doing the damage it did when the set was launched. That means it will still be quite good, and anything you did for your build (+recharge, +damage, etc.) will still be worth it. No need to get upset with it at all. Such a change really will help the game work better.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Dude, good post. +rep
|
Originally Posted by protector_knight
ur right SD is more rounded than I care to give it credit for. Sounds like I need to re connect with my favorate toon, over my 3+ yrs of game play.
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
My fire/fire/fire kills max'd aggro groups in 3 AoE hits. So saying it take 2 hours is a bit of an uneducated statemant. My stone/fire/earth does kill slow. Granite having a -damage the killing is slow (his rech and speed are IO'd to be above average). But don't dis fire tanks.
Shield rocks. btw.
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
I already gave you ALL of the builds :P SS/Fire. And, GET OFF OF FREEDOM 
Liberty all the way
Quote:
Fire/SS works very, I'd agree. I'd imagine fire/fire edges it out, but I've never played it. Fire/SS is definitely great though, especially since rage will boost your damage aura and burn in addition to your regular melee attacks.
|
Originally Posted by CoHplayer
I already gave you ALL of the builds :P SS/Fire. And, GET OFF OF FREEDOM
Liberty all the way |
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
I've been wanting a new farmer, and decided I haven't tried a tank, so I want to make one, and for farming. I have heard fire/fire, fire/stone, etc. and all but they take about 2 hours to kill the mob, even though you don't get hurt. I want one who can take the damage LIKE a tank, but also give damage too, to actually take a mob out quickly. I was thinking an ice or stone defense tank, but tell me some good tank farmers in my particular reason. (And of course tell me how they are good for that matter)