Maybe you should try a WP tanker. If you're crazy enough to take quick recovery, stamina, stealth, tough, weave and maneuvers and slot IO's that have defense set bonuses, you can get over 30% defense on every type of damage except melee, ranged and AoE. (and almost 60% fire/cold def for your demon farms.) And you'll never run out of endurance.
WP also has Rise to the Challenge, a toggle which holds aggro like Against All Odds, but boosts regen and to hit debuff instead of damage. (the aggro holding toggle is probably more critical for a scrapper, which needs the help to keep the Freaks from running away.)
Couple Rise to the Challenge aggroing 10 foes with Fast Healing, Health and IO set bonuses, and you can get about half the regen of Rest (1000%), and about a quarter (500%) with no foes. (which you'll need since WP doesn't have much damage resistance except to S/L/Psi)
Only drawback to farming is WP doesn't have a damage Aura.
I use an elec/elec tank to farm -2, x7 demons and freaks (I made sure to get the farm missions at level 49) and mow right through them, but not as efficiently as a fire/kin or other comparable builds. I don't know how good it is up against +4, x8, though.
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Also wrong.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Wrong word. Nerf is what happens when a balanced power is adjusted downwards with no compensating changes, or for no justified reasoning. Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set. |
I fell victim to my first nerfed character before you had even joined the forums. Nothing has ever been nerfed? Tell that to my fire/ice tanker (Dreck farms anyone), my Spines regen scrapper (MoG Fail), and my AR/Dev blaster ('nuff said).
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Where did you hear this?.. My fire/fire tank can clear out the demon farm in 45 minutes solo... Thats 1 hour and 15 minutes less then 2 hours..|
Originally Posted by Army-Of-Jack
I have heard fire/fire, fire/stone, etc. and all but they take about 2 hours to kill the mob,
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But yea..
fire/fire tanks
Shield/fire
Willpower/elec
fire/elec
stone/elec (IO slotted for +rech and +dam)
shield/elec
But honestly any combo can farm, just gonna know how to do it..
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Originally Posted by Crindon
Where did you hear this?.. My fire/fire tank can clear out the demon farm in 45 minutes solo...
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The common issue with Fire Melee paired with FA is the total lack of mitigation, which can be manageable but it's not quite the same auto pilot that SS is.
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I'm sure there are lots of Stormies, Trappers, Psi Assault Doms, EM Brutes, /Energy Blasters, /Devices Blasters, Fire Controllers, Controllers/Dominators/Masterminds that used pets, Regens, and Elec Assault Doms that would disagree with that assessment. That's even after ignoring ED, the GDN, target caps, and aggro caps. And then there are the thousands of PvPers that miss having a balanced system that made sense...|
Originally Posted by je_saist
City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set.
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(Also, 45 minutes to clear the demon farm? Ouch.)
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Mac- stop arguing with je noob, I'll sooner teach my cat to make a perfect margarita that you'll get him to make sense.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Oh, I gave up on arguing a long time ago. I just make sure to offer a counterpoint so that other people don't read his posts and take him seriously. 
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set.
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That is the most easily disproved, and ridiculous blanket statement possibly ever offered on these boards. Well done, you win the intrewebs.
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That is a pretty awful time indeed, and doesn't really go very far in the way of helping the Tanker's case.
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Originally Posted by macskull
(Also, 45 minutes to clear the demon farm? Ouch.)
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It was a necessary nerf. The game's state back then was comparable to everyone running with maxed out IO builds: something that just won't work in the long run. And this was, indeed, everyone, because you everyone had access to SOs which made the whole thing possible. Then there were HOs, too... In essence, ED wasn't there to balance between powersets, it was there to balance between players and the environment. In other words, a blanket PvE balance. I don't know why you only included blasters being nerfed by ED because everyone was hit in a similar fashion.|
Originally Posted by idea123
I would consider ED to be an outright nerf. taking away 6 slotting perma-hasten and reducing it by more than half with 3 slots of diminishing returns.
Blasters got nerfed big time by ED. ED was not necessary to balance anything between any powersets. It just forced everyone to slot pretty much the same. |
Also, I can't agree with you saying that ED forced everyone to slot pretty much the same. Prior to ED, everyone slotted defensive toggles with 5-6 Resistance or Defense, 0-1 Acc. All attacks were slotted 5-6 Damage, 0-1 Acc. Everything on a long recharge timer (godmodes, BU, Dull Pain, you name it) were slotted 6 Recharge. I think we have much more variety after ED, even though we still have the "basic cookie cutter slottings" (3 dam, 1 rech, 1 acc, 1 end). It's just that nowadays you aren't gimped if you didn't get perma hasten and six slot all your attacks with damage.
I digress, so let's get back to the topic. I only have two tanks, SD/DM/Pyre and an Ice/SS/Pyre and while they both are good in a team environment (= bashing loads of enemies) the Ice/SS takes the edge because it has a damage aura and two AoEs I can spam, instead of one. Sure, SC makes a difference when you open with it, but I'd say with my build (not focused on farming or +Rech) I have it up only every other spawn.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
SD, even after balancing, is still going to be really solid. I think of it as more like the burn nerf, it still works, but not nearly as stupidly good as it did before.
As for other tankers and farming, all it takes is finding a good mission/map for whatever sets you are running.
In fact, the only tank I have that has just been really disappointing for farming has been my DA/DM, and that is only because his only real AoE is his damage aura. He can still farm, just kinda slow.
but my other level 50 tanks, which include, inv/fire, fire/fire, wp/em, ice/wm, stone/ss, and my fire/ice(who is retired to the test server), have no serious issues with farming, and that is with basic SO builds. If I decided to invest in my inv/fire, he would be a monster in farming, as would my fire/fire.
Would my fire/kin still be faster, a bit, but not enough for me to never use my tanks again. I think farming with my tanks is more fun anyway.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Oh I know that.. just saying outright that it takes a fire/fire tank 2 hours to take out one mob is rather insane. When my fire/fire tank was slotted with just SOs I ran out of endurance rather quickly, but I could still clear out a mob within 10 minutes..
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Originally Posted by Acemace
The common issue with Fire Melee paired with FA is the total lack of mitigation, which can be manageable but it's not quite the same auto pilot that SS is.
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My Fire/Fire/Earth (Quick Sand--Burn spec) tank with has about 300 mill in him clears the Disrupt Portals-Axis America set for +1/x8 in about 26-28 minutes.
My Shield/Elec tank isn't quite as expensive a build, but runs Hasten and has a few IOs in it can nearly equal that, maybe a minute or 2 slower.
My fire/kin clears it in about 16-18 minutes if I am really working it and not chatting with friends, and so on.
I prefer to make inf through playing the market but occasionally its fun to go make a run on this or Harvey's demon farm.
After playing through all the TFs and a number of arcs with my friend on this BS/SD scrapper, it is clear that SC needs some kind of adjustment. Most times he was leveling the entire spawns save a Lt here and there with a sliver of health left and bosses down to 1/3. We had a kin defender with us in our team of regulars and SC was back up for basically every spawn. It NEEDS an adjustment in my opinion - example: the MA scrapper with us basically had nearly nothing to contribute and would lament maybe getting 2 attacks in each spawn.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
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Given this usage, you have a point, but this is a pretty surprising definition to me. I've consistently seen "nerf" and "buff" used as pure antonyms, with no reference to causality or justification. If it's tougher, it's a buff; if it's weaker, it's a nerf. Doesn't matter whether the change is the best thing to ever happen to game balance or the worst, if a power got weaker, it's a nerf, no matter WHY it got weaker.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Nerf is what happens when a balanced power is adjusted downwards with no compensating changes, or for no justified reasoning.
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I've never seen the term defined to depend on whether there was a good, or sufficient, reason, or even any reason at all; it's just a general term for reducing the effectiveness of a power or tactic.
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Yep. He's trying to "redefine" a word to his usage, and when he does that, he can prove anyone wrong (at least in his head, that is.) Btw, all words are this way. It's a frame and set of rules. Change the frame or the rules, and the definition changes. He's not talking to us. We're not converted.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Given this usage, you have a point, but this is a pretty surprising definition to me. I've consistently seen "nerf" and "buff" used as pure antonyms, with no reference to causality or justification. If it's tougher, it's a buff; if it's weaker, it's a nerf. Doesn't matter whether the change is the best thing to ever happen to game balance or the worst, if a power got weaker, it's a nerf, no matter WHY it got weaker.
I've never seen the term defined to depend on whether there was a good, or sufficient, reason, or even any reason at all; it's just a general term for reducing the effectiveness of a power or tactic. |
Also, no informed player would stack 5-6 damages into any attack power except snipe. It was well known back then that using recharges would return more damage per minute. However, now no one can choose to slot 5-6 damages for a specialty toon any more because the extra 5 to 10% damage from doing that would be unnoticable, and the toon's damage per minute would be horrendous. Thus there's less variety now.
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Have to take exception with that last bit. For any given attack there are at least a couple main SO slottings (damage focus, recharge focus, end reduction focus, secondary effect), Hamis, frankenslotting, proc loading, and a considerable number of IO sets that may be more or less desirable depending on the overall build focus desired by the player.|
Originally Posted by idea123
However, now no one can choose to slot 5-6 damages for a specialty toon any more because the extra 5 to 10% damage from doing that would be unnoticable, and the toon's damage per minute would be horrendous. Thus there's less variety now.
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In terms of variety for attack slotting, I would contend that we are at an all time high.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
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I realize this is an old post, but seriously. Stop jumping down peoples' throats and go get some fresh air or something. Your opinion about the universe and "the way things are" doesn't become more factual the more bold lettering you use to articulate it.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Yep.
Read here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ge#post2837784 There was a leak a few weeks ago describing some of the in-testing changes for shield charge. From the leak we know that Castle is examining a higher recharge time, probably 2x or more, in order to keep the initial impact damage the same. We still don't know what the final numbers on the modified Shield Charge will be. What we do know is that it will no longer outpace Blasters for DPS and will be significantly reigned back into scrapper values. Wrong word. Nerf is what happens when a balanced power is adjusted downwards with no compensating changes, or for no justified reasoning. Let me make this clear: City of Heroes has not experienced a genuine nerf to any power-set. If you want to know what a true nerf is, go talk to Ultima Players, Everquest Players, former Planetside players, WarHammer players, WoW players, or just about any other MMO. A true nerf is when a developer just drops the values on an attack, item, or something else because they felt like it. I've been in games, such as Planetside, where weapon behavior would literally change overnight because it a developer felt it was wrong (Lasher, Lancer, Magrider, Thresher, Sunderer, Skeeter, Reaver... actually. Pick a Vanu gun, Vanu Vehicle, or pool vehicle and at some point some developer decided to just change it's attack values or attributes because they felt like it. No database, no datamining, just, change, see what happens.). As of right now Shield Charge is massively overpowered. It is out of balance. As such, Shield Charge is being Re-Balanced. Re-balancing is when a power, item, or in-game event, is brought into line with similar powers, items, or in-game events. If you play Shield just for Shield Charge... well... honestly I feel sorry for you. Really, I do. Shields an excellent all-rounder set, and even without the baster class nuke without the end-drain it's still going to be a good all-rounder. |
Anyway.
Does anyone else hope they nerf the damage rather than the cooldown of Shield Charge? It's the playstyle of Shield Defense that I like the most. I don't need all that damage.
I IOed out my SD/SS tank on Union and she was by far my most fun character. So much so, I remade her since joining the US servers.
This is the first I've heard about a SD nerf, and I really hope they don't decide to double the recharge of Shield Charge. I could deal with a damage nerf, bringing it down closer to Foot Stomp levels of damage but surely doubling the recharge would make Shield Charge look even more like a nuke.
I would consider ED to be an outright nerf. taking away 6 slotting perma-hasten and reducing it by more than half with 3 slots of diminishing returns.
Blasters got nerfed big time by ED. ED was not necessary to balance anything between any powersets. It just forced everyone to slot pretty much the same.
And Burn was nerfed. So was the whole Invulnerability powerset. They just took away and gave nothing back. It might have introduced more balance between sets, but the individual powers were outright nerfed. I'm not against balancing the game, but individual powers were definitely nerfed.
But, since the game is written by humans, errors are inevitable and changes must be made for the sake of balance. It's funny that after taking away so much, they ended up giving it all back in terms of speed of leveling up.