Blizzard to remove the veil of anonymity


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA View Post
That sounds more like middle management though. Guys like Patrick Bateman.

off topic but Patrick Bateman was actually high level mangement




On topic if it was a game site I posted on meh I don't have anything useful to steal identy wise and no credit to speak of. I definatly can understand why people would be upset though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
That's because people are a sea of statistics. Social policy is not established by the fact that something bad happened to someone somewhere. Bad things happen to good people, and that's unfortunate, but we don't stop the world on account of it. It would be hard to find some aspect of our existence that did not have unfortunate consequences for someone somewhere attached to it. Cars kill 45,000 people a year and injure 2.5 million more (roughly), not to mention the long-term environmental issues, but just try even raising the standards for a driver's license, never mind getting rid of them.
Like I said, I wasn't talking to you. The fact that you're objectively wrong only gives me the smallest amount of schadenfreude because I expect nothing from you.

Rian Frostdrake's response is correct. And it is a fact that decisions are made at all levels of society to minimize dangers, even dangers that are statistically unlikely. This is why civil rights legislation is passed to protect minorities that have a relatively small population, even though, statistically speaking, the discrimination they experience is not relevant to the vast majority of people, it is still relevant to those who do experience it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA View Post
Sounds like an effort. Why not have everyone give their real name as 'George Orwell' when the transition happens?
Honestly, "We Are The World" not that long of a song, it just seems longer because the chorus repeats over and over again.

I'll see what I can do for lyrics


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
...are you sure you're not actually a supervillain in disguise?

Just saying.
you have NO idea . I have often joked that if chase did not hold to an intensely strict moral code, he could be a very dangerous person. He has much nastier ideas than this that his moral code would not allow him to do, but they would have significantly destabilizing effects for a disconcertingly large number of people.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaderath View Post
EDIT: Hell, isn't this against most game company's codes of conducts, including Blizzard's? "Code of Conduct - NO POSTS CONTAINING PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT OTHER PLAYERS."
You missed the important part of that phrase. OTHER players, not yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
Absolutely. When people complain about trolls in City of Heroes, I tell them "You do realize that a troll in City of Heroes is someone who uses the small spoon to eat soup, right? That we faint from the indignity of it?"
Well, we have a few WoW-quality trolls, but yeah, this describes most of ours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed View Post
[...]
If someone won't hire you or date you because you play games, then... their loss. They'll find that alot of others do too, so their choices will become narrowed.

[...]
Maybe its better if everyone just knows you for the entirety of your personality. If they don't like one aspect of that, then whats the use bothering with them?
In many areas, jobs are scarce right now. And the problem of this is, it's not that they won't know you for you, but rather apply what are often harsh sterotypes to you because of a misconception on a hobby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
In the current economic climate, there's little chance of such consequences for employers. Playing MMOs has retained its stigma (as KaliMagdalene points out) even as WoW has carried the genre into mainstream pop culture.
This is a big reason why Blizzards thing is a bad idea.

Quote:
Quite the opposite: True freedom of speech may very well require anonymity, in the same way that the secret ballot promotes a fair democracy. Exemplars of anonymous free speech include Common Sense and the Drapier's Letters, whose authorships were initially concealed, or the Letters of Junius, whose author is still unknown.

While I'm not suggesting that the nerfing of pallies is on the same level as fighting government corruption or fomenting revolution against tyranny, but anonymous free speech on the Internet is recognized by US courts.
That case wouldn't apply. It's not a 3rd party trying to force Blizzard to reveal real names. And private forums don't have all the free speech protections anyway.

But mainly, the fact it isn't some other company trying to force Blizzard to reveal that info makes the case really not apply.


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Posted

You know, I just thought of this...

I knew people who worked in a police task force on online sexual predators, and a few of their officers posed as 13 year olds kids on World of Warcraft and other games trying to catch potential child molesters.

I wonder how many law enforcement activities are going to be disrupted because of this. They kinda need the anonymity also to hunt down these predators.

(P.S. No, I'm not saying which agency or department these people worked for or if they play CoH also)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderRich2001 View Post
You know, I just thought of this...

I knew people who worked in a police task force on online sexual predators, and a few of their officers posed as 13 year olds kids on World of Warcraft and other games trying to catch potential child molesters.

I wonder how many law enforcement activities are going to be disrupted because of this. They kinda need the anonymity also to hunt down these predators.

(P.S. No, I'm not saying which agency or department these people worked for or if they play CoH also)
OMG everyone who plays WoW needs to change their account to Chris Hansen!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderRich2001 View Post
I wonder how many law enforcement activities are going to be disrupted because of this. They kinda need the anonymity also to hunt down these predators.
I wouldn't expect that any would be. One way or another, I've little doubt that such operatives can retain a cover name appropriate to their role.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderRich2001 View Post
Nah, I prefer a good game of Thermonuclear War.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderRich2001 View Post
haha, how did I miss this? Thank you for the payoff.


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Posted

Even after all the furor over this...I don't think Blizzard is going to back down. It's likely that the deals have largely been signed and delivered already with whomever they're collaborating with (in this case, it seems Facebook, the South Korean government), and they see themselves as enough of a juggernaut to survive people leaving.

And let's be honest...with as many players as they have, it'd have to be a mass exodus to really hurt them at this point.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
That's because people are a sea of statistics. Social policy is not established by the fact that something bad happened to someone somewhere. Bad things happen to good people, and that's unfortunate, but we don't stop the world on account of it. It would be hard to find some aspect of our existence that did not have unfortunate consequences for someone somewhere attached to it. Cars kill 45,000 people a year and injure 2.5 million more (roughly), not to mention the long-term environmental issues, but just try even raising the standards for a driver's license, never mind getting rid of them.

Over here the standards and difficultly associated with getting driving licenses has been constantly rising over the last few years with different legislation being brought in relating to effective penalisation & enforcement, more limitations on Learner Drivers and tighter controls on car quality & road worthiness. We now have the lowest fatality rates recorded in the country, while having the most cars on the road and higher speed limits where suitable.


* You're completely wrong here I'm afraid.*


 

Posted

So, this subject. Honestly, I was debating whether to weigh in at all, just because I was wondering if the thread would even be here in a day. Since its still here, I guess that's a sign.

I'd say I'm an internet veteran: I've been active in some part of the internet/usenet since 1985. I've participated and still participate both with my real life identity and anonymously. My perspective on this has changed radically back and forth over the years, but the bottom line for me is that I believe revealing personal details about yourself, and which ones to reveal, is an entirely personal choice. I say quite a lot, actually, but I still do so anonymously. My reasons are entirely personal and entirely my own, and I don't think there's any particular need to justify them. Whether I'm afraid of being stalked by a forum loon or I just want to partition different parts of my life for no particular reason is entirely my choice.

There are many internet forums (and I use that word generically) where anonymity is impractical or forbidden. When I participate in those, its voluntarily and after careful consideration. And if I choose not to, I choose not to. If, on the other hand, I choose to participate in an arena that offers anonymity, I expect that anonymity to be preserved. It really doesn't matter if, say, Kali is right and anonymity is a mandatory safety barrier or if Venture is right and anonymity is a statistically irrelevant attribute. Even if either position was possible to prove absolutely true it would have no bearing on my feelings towards anonymity. Its something I choose for my own reasons, and I expect those reasons to be honored.

I can't directly comment on the specific reasons, both acknowledged and speculated, for what might be motivating Blizzard. And I see that at least in terms of forum participation this policy will not have retroactive effects, which means for the most part its voluntary. However, and I'm not very familiar with all of the details, since I'm no longer a WoW participant, but if there are indeed non-optional aspects of this policy, and particularly if this were to have leaked my identity without my expressed permission, I would be gravely upset. I don't use that term lightly. I can relate completely with the Blizzard customers incredibly upset over this change, and they have every right to be.

Bottom line: if NCSoft were to be so brain-dead as to institute this policy here, I'd be gone. The only question would be whether I would set fire to the place on the way out the door, statistics be damned.


PS: on the subject of internet trolling and flame wars. As some have mentioned, back in the day virtually everyone on the internet was not anonymous. So much so that anyone active regularly on USENET was bound to be a "known" entity by a significant percentage of the people who participated in those forums. We, the collective we, knew each other. While that had a moderating influence on the *number* and *threshold* of flame wars and verbal assaults, once that threshold was breached there is almost *nothing* today that compares to the flame wars of the past, simply because we knew our targets far better than most do today. Today, flames are generic, random, hand-flailing cries for attention. Back then, flames were laser guided bombs aimed at people's pets, sexual preference, uncertain lineage, favorite mode of transportation, hair style, questionable acquaintances, and career trajectories. Anonymity didn't increase flaming on the internet, it just standardized it. And I don't think you can turn the clock back: now that internet abuse is considered a social norm, removing the veil of anonymity won't reduce abuse, it will just personalize it, but without the moderating peer pressure we used to have in the past to at least be a little selective about your public battles.


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Posted

I know you're trying to say it doesn't matter if Venture or I is correct for access to anonymity to be necessary, but I should point out that what Venture is arguing is pretty grotesque in a civilized society and that increasing potential danger for some people is only a sacrifice he's willing to make because he's not one of the people who may be in danger. But it's okay for other people to be in danger because he doesn't think there will be that many, even though fewer will be in danger without such a policy in place. On a purely humanitarian level, there's no justifying his argument.

I agree that there should be no justification necessary, but an enforced lack of anonymity on the WoW forums will drive people away, there's no arguing that, and of course there's no justifiable reason for Blizzard to do this.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
That's because people are a sea of statistics. Social policy is not established by the fact that something bad happened to someone somewhere. Bad things happen to good people, and that's unfortunate, but we don't stop the world on account of it. It would be hard to find some aspect of our existence that did not have unfortunate consequences for someone somewhere attached to it. Cars kill 45,000 people a year and injure 2.5 million more (roughly), not to mention the long-term environmental issues, but just try even raising the standards for a driver's license, never mind getting rid of them.
*blinks*

Ok, let me divulge a small amount of personal information, on the internet, by my own choice;

I am an Engineer (Mechatronic to be precise, dont get me to explain) and I've done some Risk Assessment work in my time, not to mention having to deal almost daily with various safety and compliance standards.

And, let me just say; I hope you are not in the buissness of Risk Assessment, for if you are, you should be fired. Today.

And here is the funny thing; if you were posting with your real name, I could (ethically I might have to) determine your place of employment, and direct your employers to this thread and your comments herein. And you would likely get fired. Today. (or at least get a very firm WTF from your boss)

Funny That.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
... but just try even raising the standards for a driver's license, never mind getting rid of them.
As a funny bonus: in my country, a few years back; we did just that.

EDIT: We lifted standards; we didn't get rid of them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA View Post
Helpful link indeed. It didn't even turn up my online phone book entry. Which is actually kinda weird. And sad, cause I'd like some roses and a dildo in the mail. Well, I don't really need the dildo. Maybe a Russian mail order bride instead?
Those are a total rip-off. Mine suffocated in the box during shipment.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
Quote:
Helpful link indeed. It didn't even turn up my online phone book entry. Which is actually kinda weird. And sad, cause I'd like some roses and a dildo in the mail. Well, I don't really need the dildo. Maybe a Russian mail order bride instead?
Those are a total rip-off. Mine suffocated in the box during shipment.
Tell me about it. I'd assumed Russian Male Order Bride was a typo until Vlad showed up in a dress.


 

Posted

So is this the mythical WoW-killer? I always thought that it'd come from another company, and not Blizzard
I think Bioware wil be quite happy with this situation right now


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
So is this the mythical WoW-killer? I always thought that it'd come from another company, and not Blizzard
I think Bioware wil be quite happy with this situation right now
You should pay attention to me. I always said the only thing that could kill WoW was Blizzard.

I just meant, you know, another MMO or something.


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Posted

Two links so far on the Fark.com Geek page.

This comment cracked me up:

Quote:
they'll get over it. i mean, what's the alternative - not playing WoW? good luck with that, nerds.
It will be interesting how a gaming addiction interacts with nerdrage.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperOz View Post
Even after all the furor over this...I don't think Blizzard is going to back down. It's likely that the deals have largely been signed and delivered already with whomever they're collaborating with (in this case, it seems Facebook, the South Korean government), and they see themselves as enough of a juggernaut to survive people leaving.

And let's be honest...with as many players as they have, it'd have to be a mass exodus to really hurt them at this point.
This is quite true, so it will be interesting to see what really happens. How many times has there been outrage on these forums with people saying they're quitting, only to have subscriptions increase? Most people will not care about this change.

However, I should point out (as I mentioned earlier) I have two friends who play WoW. They didn't care about the RealID stuff at first, but when I showed them the deal Vivendi/Universal inked with Facebook, they canceled their subs.

This is going to be an interesting dynamic to watch, and I'm sure other game companies are watching this very closely.


Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!

Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
Two links so far on the Fark.com Geek page.

This comment cracked me up:



It will be interesting how a gaming addiction interacts with nerdrage.
I have no problem with not playing WoW when I don't want to. I don't find it addictive, though. I do have fun playing with it, until I don't, and then I take a break.

Also, this isn't nerdrage. Nerdrage is fandumb, or "they changed it, now it sucks" or "ruined forever" or "they nerfed my favorite class or buffed my most hated class." These are people who are legitimately upset with the way Blizzard is trying to do business.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
This is quite true, so it will be interesting to see what really happens. How many times has their been outrage on these forums with people saying they're quitting, only to have subscriptions increase? Most people will not care about this change.
This is not comparable to any of the situations you're talking about. Generally speaking, outrage over nerfs and such doesn't really impact a game, but this isn't about nerfs, and nothing any MMO has ever done has prompted the response that Blizzard is getting now. The thread on the official US forum? Up to 37,025 responses as of the moment I write this. There is nothing comparable to this and your comparisons are invalid.


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Posted

Interesting to see how this will turn out.

For the record, Venture, you're wrong. Again.

Have a nice day.

(So glad I stopped playing that idiot mmo over a year ago. )


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
...As some have mentioned, back in the day virtually everyone on the internet was not anonymous. So much so that anyone active regularly on USENET was bound to be a "known" entity by a significant percentage of the people who participated in those forums. We, the collective we, knew each other. While that had a moderating influence on the *number* and *threshold* of flame wars and verbal assaults, once that threshold was breached there is almost *nothing* today that compares to the flame wars of the past, simply because we knew our targets far better than most do today. Today, flames are generic, random, hand-flailing cries for attention. Back then, flames were laser guided bombs aimed at people's pets, sexual preference, uncertain lineage, favorite mode of transportation, hair style, questionable acquaintances, and career trajectories. Anonymity didn't increase flaming on the internet, it just standardized it. And I don't think you can turn the clock back: now that internet abuse is considered a social norm, removing the veil of anonymity won't reduce abuse, it will just personalize it, but without the moderating peer pressure we used to have in the past to at least be a little selective about your public battles.
I want to take this and post it at several other places. Beautifully written & Frighteningly true.