How much KB protect should I aim for?
By
Athanatosis,
Posted on: 2010-06-20 07:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
4 pts is good enough for most PvE. You will rarely get knocked around.
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I've never felt the need for more than 4. It protects against 95% of all kb situations you'll run into. The other 5% are the times you get hit with stacked kb powers simultaneously and the extremely rare attacks that have more than mag 4 kb to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Eislor
4 pts is good enough for most PvE. You will rarely get knocked around.
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If you're running a tanker without built-in kb protection though, such as Dark or Fire Armor, you'll probably want more than 4, simply because so many enemies will be focusing their attacks on you, so you're much more likely to run into stacked kb. In a case like that, I'd go for mag 12 protection.
The above posters are right. In my experience, 4 points will protect you against every power which has a secondary effect of knockback. I.e, AoE attacks which just happen to also knockback.
The only powers I have seen get past this are powers specifically designed for knockback, and they are exceptionally rare. So rare, I can't even think of an example. Its also unlikely you will get stacked knockback unless you are the tank.
PvE, of course. 
/agrees with the above.
I go for 4 on most characters I use those IOs on, and find that fine. Fire or dark tanks, I typically try to fit in a second one somewhere.
Just wanted to throw in, that for situations where 4 isn't enough, it is unlikely that 8 will work either. The few powers that have more than mag 4, usually have a lot more. For example, I believe the fake nemesis force bolt is around mag 10.
You forgot the most important part: on what AT?
The question arose for my Fire/Fire Brute, but the information is good to have for any AT. I'm also working on a Dark Armor tank, so now I know that I'll need more for him.
I know that 8 won't protect from a super mag KB ability, but would 8 protect against multiple KBs at once on a tank? Or for the tank should I still be going for 12?
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Personally, I'd go for 12 over 8. Also, you could consider taking Acrobatics instead of, or in addition to, -kb IO's. That's mag 9 right there. I used Acro on a DA tank, and never had any issues with knockback.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
The question arose for my Fire/Fire Brute, but the information is good to have for any AT. I'm also working on a Dark Armor tank, so now I know that I'll need more for him.
I know that 8 won't protect from a super mag KB ability, but would 8 protect against multiple KBs at once on a tank? Or for the tank should I still be going for 12? |
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KB doesn't stack as other controls do - its an instantaneous effect, either the single attack has enough KB to knock you down/back or it doesn't. You can get hit by multiple attacks in a row that 'chain' KB you but even then with the rag doll physics model they use it has to be timed just right AND each hit still has to be enough to overcome your KB protection. |
Originally Posted by Athanatosis
The question arose for my Fire/Fire Brute, but the information is good to have for any AT. I'm also working on a Dark Armor tank, so now I know that I'll need more for him.
I know that 8 won't protect from a super mag KB ability, but would 8 protect against multiple KBs at once on a tank? Or for the tank should I still be going for 12? |
If you really want to make sure you have enough KB to cover everything I would recommend slotting 1 -KB IO and then taking acrobatics - the 9 points there + the IO will give you 13 points which I am fairly sure will cover everthing in the PvE game except possibly fake nemesis attacks, but it might even work against those. There is no way to cover everything in the PvP game as players have access to some truly insane KB powers (force bolt - base mag 18, enhancable to mag 50).
As noted before though, the base 4 points in your IO will cover 95+% of the game, maybe even 99%. I would really not worry about it unless you plan on doing hami raids or tanking the STF (and I have seen a fire aura tanker handle lord recluse just by putting his back to a wall so the KB didn't throw him out of range to manage aggro).
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Just to echo what others have said, you'll want 12 pts of KB protection for everything in the game. Or take acrobatics if you can afford another toggle power. I can't remember the last time I was knocked back with just acrobatics.
But if you need to maximize power choices and can fit in KB protection IOs, strive for 12 points and you will be covered.
In PvP play, its a MUCH higher number.
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Yeah, I'd say 4 for most characters, 12 for tanks and maybe scrappers/brutes depending on how many hits you expect to be taking.
My fire tank gets by with one Karma -KB.
The only time it was ever an issue was running the Katie Hannon TF.
Other than that, he gets by fine.
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It will always be on, unless you exemp more than 3 levels below the level of the IO. For example, if you slot a lvl 50, you'll loose the KB protection when you exemp to level 46 or lower. So if you do a lot of lower level stuff, get it as low as you can.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
(Btw, will that always be on? Or only when Combat Jumping is on?)
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I agree with the 4 pts of -KB crowd as well for PvE. That covers most stuff.
Additionally, don't forget about Base Empowerment if you need more -KB
for a specific tf/mission. It lasts an hour and (iirc) it's 10 points of -KB,
and quite cheap to make...
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Knockback_Protection_(Empowerment)
For PVP - it gets quite a bit more involved (and vocal). 
Conventional Wisdom says 41-45 points to deal with Force Bolt, Power Push,
Repel and such, especially in the arena.
In zone (depending on *which* zone), it can be a lot less because you're
much less likely to encounter those powers.
High Stealth characters can usually take less as well since the presumption
is they can avoid many of the players that are problematic... For instance,
my PvP stalkers usually slot in the 4 to 12 range for -KB.
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4 will cover you for the vast majority of things, easy.
I put in 12 on all of my toons that don't have kb prot from their primary/secondary only for hami raids.
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Best way to check on this question (and similar) is to open the combat attributes window and check what your actual KB Prot (for example) is while toggling on/off.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
(Btw, will that always be on? Or only when Combat Jumping is on?)
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For most ATs one -KB IO is fine. For scrappers, two are generally fine (I have that on my Dark/Dark scrapper). For tankers, two are good 99% of the time, but there will be things that knock you around. So I go for three on my Fire tankers. However, if you can't fit the third one in you'll rarely miss it.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
Right now I'm gonna toss one Karma: Knockback Protection IO in Combat Jumping. (Btw, will that always be on? Or only when Combat Jumping is on?) That will give me 4 points of protection. Seems that actual toggles that give Knockback protection give 10+ points of it, though. Should I try to fit another, or even two more KB protect IOs into my set at some point? Or will the one IO pretty much have me only getting knocked back by mac trucks?
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yeah, mary will slap you around like a 2 dollar garden tool. i forget how much you need for her, but it is way more then anything else in the game other then PvP.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
My fire tank gets by with one Karma -KB.
The only time it was ever an issue was running the Katie Hannon TF. Other than that, he gets by fine. |
Tanks with KB protection in their sets are usually fine.
12 points should keep you on your feet against Mary and Fake Nems.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Others have answered the kb IO questions, but I wanted to correct this. KB can be stacked, but the hits have to happen at exactly the same time. I assume they both have to be in the same server tick.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
KB doesn't stack as other controls do - its an instantaneous effect, either the single attack has enough KB to knock you down/back or it doesn't. You can get hit by multiple attacks in a row that 'chain' KB you but even then with the rag doll physics model they use it has to be timed just right AND each hit still has to be enough to overcome your KB protection.
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I've done this with a teammate before, and I've had it happen to me with stacked grenades. My teammate and I both had knockdown attacks, but a few times if we hit the enemy at the same time he got KBed. These were enemies that we had both KDed earlier, but when stacked they went flying back.
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More than fine. With the exception of Grounded (ElA), in-set KB protections grant 10 points of KB protection and 10,000% KB resistance. KB resistance works exactly like damage resistance; that is, 100% resistance reduces the incoming effect to 0. So the mag 10 protection is protecting you from mag 0 KB effects.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Tanks with KB protection in their sets are usually fine.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I think you will need more than 8 for Rikti Pylons too. I believe I tried to solo one with a /fire brute and couldn't stay on my feet with Mag 8 kb protection.
Pylons do a scale 4 KB, and have 40% chance for an additional scale 2 KB, but I'm not entirely certain what their Ranged_Knockback modifier is. With player ATs, the Ranged_Knockback modifier hovers around 2 at lv50 (with Brutes and Tankers up around 2.6), so "more than 8" sounds correct.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I'm staggered you need so much in PvP (guess I would be staggering getting up off the ground in the PvP zone).
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
For PVP - it gets quite a bit more involved (and vocal).
Conventional Wisdom says 41-45 points to deal with Force Bolt, Power Push, Repel and such, especially in the arena. In zone (depending on *which* zone), it can be a lot less because you're much less likely to encounter those powers. High Stealth characters can usually take less as well since the presumption is they can avoid many of the players that are problematic... For instance, my PvP stalkers usually slot in the 4 to 12 range for -KB. Regards, 4 |
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Right now I'm gonna toss one Karma: Knockback Protection IO in Combat Jumping. (Btw, will that always be on? Or only when Combat Jumping is on?) That will give me 4 points of protection. Seems that actual toggles that give Knockback protection give 10+ points of it, though. Should I try to fit another, or even two more KB protect IOs into my set at some point? Or will the one IO pretty much have me only getting knocked back by mac trucks?