A Market Journal: From 0 to Millions
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2010-06-19 17:30 in Player Guides
great thread Fury, one more thing for us to link when people whine that they can never afford anything because it's impossible to make inf.
Also an interesting juxtaposition to that one thread where someone (topdoc?) went 0-2 billion in a month after me n' Uber pondered the feasibility of the act. Did he do it with pure marketeering? I forget. =/
Anyway, GRATZ to Ghoulslayer on the big win and GRATZ to Fury for providing a weeks worth of entertainment to this jaded marketeer!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Just a thought now that it is over, would we be able to get all of his update posts put together back to back for easy reading/linking to others for future use? Or would people just get annoyed at reposting what he already said, even though it's spread out between a weeks worth of people guessing/commenting.
Easy come, easy go 
Anyhow, if anyone who has any questions about what I did to make the influence or any general questions about marketeering, etc. feel free to ask.
As for giving it all away, no biggie since it was all in the name of fun and since it'll only take me 7 days of limited play to remake it all back if I chose to. 
Thanks all for your comments, encouragement and just going along for the ride.
FF
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You can actually link specifically to one post by clicking the number on the top right side of each post. That would make that easier if you want to refer to a portion of it. As for the experiment as a whole work, I think it's best to link it right from the beginning since you can see the progress. |
Originally Posted by Lillika
Just a thought now that it is over, would we be able to get all of his update posts put together back to back for easy reading/linking to others for future use? Or would people just get annoyed at reposting what he already said, even though it's spread out between a weeks worth of people guessing/commenting.
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Maybe I'll create a post where I just link the major updates per day. I'll see what I can do.
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Maybe I'll create a post where I just link the major updates per day. I'll see what I can do.
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That's what I was thinking. I'm sure it wouldn't be terribly hard to copy/paste the big updates one after another into one thread. Just wasn't sure if it would be frowned upon or not. I know I personally would love to see all this information be saved for future reference.
if you were in the mood you could edit it down a bit and make a guide out of it- How to Make A Billion in a Week with Limited Playtime or something.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I want this stickied. This is one of my favorites threads for all of 2010.
Congrats to everyone, except Ghoul Slayer. 
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Aw I was only out by .13 billion 
Nice thread gratz Mr. Slayer.
Fury - first of all, thank you for doing this and taking the time to post all this wonderful information. going to be a big help to my fledgling marketing career.
quick question, if you don't mind sharing some tips on how you price items. obviously, you have to price an item high enough to make sure you make at least a little profit but do you list it towards the high side of recent bids and just let it sit; price it toward the low side or even under recent bids, going for turnover; or do you keep a side record going of what you sell certain things for?
seeing only the last 5 bids can be a bit deceptive. and with the way the market works, with the lowest for sale price generally geting the next purchase at or above that price, it would seem that putting an item up at a lower price would be the best way to go.
looking at your sales pictures, appears that you frequently get way more than you listed an item for. example, on a recent screen shot, you sold a doctored wounds end/rech for 8M with a selling fee of 600k. if my math is correct, that would mean you listed it at 4M. with salvage needed, crafting costs, etc, 4M would still be a nice little profit but if these regularly sell for 8M or more, would it be better to list it for 6 or 7M to make sure you make a bit more when it sells?
Kendo: if you try for too much you will get undercut. If you're moving low-end stuff people don't care much if they pay 4M or 8 M for it. More accurately, people who care what they pay care enough to craft it themselves. I first realized this when I listed something for (I don't remember the exact numbers) something like 28 million and it sold, the next day, for 42 million. Not an instant sale where someone wanted it and had a bid waiting... someone looked, saw there was one for sale, and didn't even TRY a relatively low bid for it.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
A thoroughly excellent thread, Fury - I greatly enjoyed following it, and
gratz to the Slayer for the winning guess and windfall.
I'd second the other folks who are wondering if the pertinent pieces of this
thread can be consolidated and posted to the Guides section so it doesn't
get eaten by the Forum Monster (or a grue)
I think it would be an excellent resource going forward.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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It's a bit of a judgment call but I tend to list things for moderate profits instead of trying to eke out as much per sale as possible. Even though I get less than the going rate (and conversely, the buyer gets a bargain), I still make plenty of profit. In my guide (in the sig), I recommend going with 75% of the going rate (or lower in some cases). However, if I want to move stuff fast, I'll even list for 50 or 60% going rate. As long as you don't have tons of the same thing, you'll get near max price and the buyers won't catch on.|
Originally Posted by kendo
quick question, if you don't mind sharing some tips on how you price items. obviously, you have to price an item high enough to make sure you make at least a little profit but do you list it towards the high side of recent bids and just let it sit; price it toward the low side or even under recent bids, going for turnover; or do you keep a side record going of what you sell certain things for?
seeing only the last 5 bids can be a bit deceptive. and with the way the market works, with the lowest for sale price generally geting the next purchase at or above that price, it would seem that putting an item up at a lower price would be the best way to go. looking at your sales pictures, appears that you frequently get way more than you listed an item for. example, on a recent screen shot, you sold a doctored wounds end/rech for 8M with a selling fee of 600k. if my math is correct, that would mean you listed it at 4M. with salvage needed, crafting costs, etc, 4M would still be a nice little profit but if these regularly sell for 8M or more, would it be better to list it for 6 or 7M to make sure you make a bit more when it sells? |
Going for this moderate pricing strategy is particularly true in situations where there is lots of supply and you're literally competing with other sellers in making sure your stuff sells before theirs does.
The one exception to that are on weekend days. I priced near the going rate for a bunch of IOs on Thursday evening, Friday morning because I knew sales would be brisk. If you read my Friday post, I noted this shift in strategy for that one day.
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thanks for the quick reply Fury. I saw your Friday post which is partly what prompted my questions. and I wasn't sure if you would have done it that way normally, or if you were making a last push before shutting down your experiment for your forum article.|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
The one exception to that are on weekend days. I priced near the going rate for a bunch of IOs on Thursday evening, Friday morning because I knew sales would be brisk. If you read my Friday post, I noted this shift in strategy for that one day. |
many thanks for sharing all this information, looking forward to putting it to work and seeing how it goes. will let you know if you created another billionaire in a month or so
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thanks Fulmens, |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Kendo: if you try for too much you will get undercut. If you're moving low-end stuff people don't care much if they pay 4M or 8 M for it. More accurately, people who care what they pay care enough to craft it themselves. I first realized this when I listed something for (I don't remember the exact numbers) something like 28 million and it sold, the next day, for 42 million. Not an instant sale where someone wanted it and had a bid waiting... someone looked, saw there was one for sale, and didn't even TRY a relatively low bid for it.
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appreciate the reply and insight. part of the problem, for me, is that I am trying to get used to considering "low-end" stuff being 4 - 8M
spent too long being poor enough that anything more than a couple million gave me a little pause for thought. even when I have 100M sitting on a character, I try to nickel and dime sales and purchases. guess being very "frugal" is a hard habit to break.it's getting easier, especially as I see more and more examples of what you talked about. I list 2 of the same item, one at a lower price to recover costs and fund more purchases and one at a higher price to try to get more profit. as often as not, the lower listed one sells first and at a price higher than what I have the second one listed for.
I know it won't always work that way and need to be careful not to price something too low and have someone come in with my frugality and pick it up at a loss for me. but as long as I am making even a small net profit on every sale, volume and turnover off market slots seems to be a better approach
thanks again
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Fulmens speaks truth.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Kendo: if you try for too much you will get undercut. If you're moving low-end stuff people don't care much if they pay 4M or 8 M for it. More accurately, people who care what they pay care enough to craft it themselves. I first realized this when I listed something for (I don't remember the exact numbers) something like 28 million and it sold, the next day, for 42 million. Not an instant sale where someone wanted it and had a bid waiting... someone looked, saw there was one for sale, and didn't even TRY a relatively low bid for it.
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With my MA antics lately I've been dealing with a LOT of recipes and crafted IOs. I list everything as cheaply as I can to ensure fast sell through. Quite often buyers give me multiples of my modest asking price, all on their own.
One of the great secrets of the market which seems to utterly confuse many, many people is that there is a large population that values their limited gaming time much more than their play money.
If they can save a couple of minutes buying a crafted IO for 20 million NAO instead of messing around crafting their own for less, they pay with a smile on their faces.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Who else winced when reading that? |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I first realized this when I listed something for (I don't remember the exact numbers) something like 28 million and it sold, the next day, for 42 million. Not an instant sale where someone wanted it and had a bid waiting... someone looked, saw there was one for sale, and didn't even TRY a relatively low bid for it.
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I still bid creep on SALVAGE.
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It took me years. Deciding that I wasn't going to pay less than 5908 for salvage has saved me many hours of bid creeping. (it's a couple million difference on an entire build. That's four level 50 crafting costs. )| guess being very "frugal" is a hard habit to break. |
Trying to deliberately destroy billions in market fees helped. I started out with the idea that I could lose on a few of the transactions, and I made a lot of money on 99% of them.
On the 42 million? I still want to yell at that person. 42 million was even above the "last 5". They didn't even TRY !
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
How do you decide what to price at when selling? Well thats the rub isn't it?
Generally when I'm crafting low-end, high-volume IOs like say Crushing Impacts I do the following:
Buy a stack of 10 of the recipe plus 10 of each of the salvage entered into it. Make sure to park the alt who bid on them on the docks outside the market in Cap for discount coupons for crafting (with the accolade).
Once all components are in I add up the cost per IO:
CI:Acc/End recipe 550k each
Salvages: 80k each
crafting cost 470k each (or whatever it is exactly once I've gotten the discounts too)
So I'd know it my exact cost....lets assume here its 1.1M for simplicity (which is why I rounded the numbers)
You also have to price in a 10% fee in the market to cover the black market fee.....so at this point our min price to break even would be 1.21M.
BEFORE I actually craft the damn things I put a bid out at my break-even price. If that fills I just sit on the stuff. Selling prices will be more expensive soon since everyone else is dealing with the same market I am.
If that doesn't fill I slide up to 130% of my break-even or 50%+1 of the last bid (whichever is higher) until one fills. If one doesn't fill I list for 130% of breakeven or 50%+1 of last bid.
If it does eventually fill, I list a bit lower than where it filled (even the 11th I bought from someone else) in order to sell my stock 1st.
In general this strategy has driven profits in niches down, making prices better for players but also driven sales to me.
If someone comes back and relists lower than you in a market PvP maneuver, you can either bail on the niche, selling at 110% of costs to just get out ASAP, or you can market PvP back depending on how you feel about the whole thing and how much time you have.
I've probably given away too much information to people who might be interested in "stealing a niche" from me, but honestly with markets merging I'm not to worried at this time cause I'm going to have to re-write all my rules most likely anyhows since I do about 75% of my work redside anyhows and the new market will be much more like the blueside one.
I'll second what Fulmens says on buy it Nao! folks not caring what they pay too. I've listed things for like 4M when last paid was 6M and seen it sell for as high as 15M so they didn't even bother to look at the last prices. Remember even if you have a big pile of inf in this game, someone probably either has more or has a higher utility associated with spending as much of it as possible playing rather than build assembling.
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I remember when you couldn't stop muling underpriced recipes to the vendor because...because....JUST BECAUSE!|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
It took me years.
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=)
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quick Reply:
I'd like to thank Fury for this thread, with a shout out to Nethergoat as well.
I've always been an OK marketeer, with my own little profitable niches, but I never realized how much raw influence could be generated with tickets. I left the game right before MA hit and only recently came back ... last night playing around, my eyes bulged out of my head when I hit the glowie to complete and saw "700 tickets awarded!". Nice. Very, very nice.
Moral of the story? Hurry up and buy the steadfasts I listed last night from tickets!
Thanks for all the insight, Fury. After playing nearly 3 years, I never managed to accumulate more than 180 million or so on any character. Using the tips in your thread, a little research and a WHOLE lot of luck, I'm actually on track to beat your score this week. Heading into day 7 with about 920 mill. Truly appreciate all the work you devoted to the thread and your "experiment"!
This has been a great thread. Last Friday, I started following the system and quickly made 100,000,000 in a couple of days. Unfortunately, since then, I've been stuck with a lot of fairly priced high-value items that no one is bidding on. These are items like Far Strike (Dmg/Range, Dmg/Rechg) and Adrenal Adjustment, where the price is 1mm to 3mm when they sell; they just don't seem to sell very often. My 16 slots are full!
I got an Energy Manipulation tonight that has a going rate of $25mm to $30mm, with 3 bidders. I put mine up for $10mm and got no takers.
I'm going to keep at it. What's your threshold for activity on an enhancement before crafting and placing for sale?
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It depends on the item. High value items (Heal uniques, some ranges of LoTG +Recharge, purples) can take a while to get the price *you* want. They'll always have a buyer at slightly below the going rate. I usually let these sit until the weekend before I shift pricing.|
Originally Posted by GGG247
I'm going to keep at it. What's your threshold for activity on an enhancement before crafting and placing for sale?
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On some of the other items, it depends on what it is. If sale prices are large but the frequency of sales isn't every day, you probably want to let them sit for at least a week. For my experiment, I didn't do that since I had a time limit. Also, on characters that I play infrequently, I'll just let things sit until the next time I log on. It's nice to logon to a character and realize they have 500M of sales waiting for them.
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Nicely done. Glad you found the thread useful. |
Originally Posted by sofacat
Thanks for all the insight, Fury. After playing nearly 3 years, I never managed to accumulate more than 180 million or so on any character. Using the tips in your thread, a little research and a WHOLE lot of luck, I'm actually on track to beat your score this week. Heading into day 7 with about 920 mill. Truly appreciate all the work you devoted to the thread and your "experiment"!
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I actually never intended this as a guide per se, but I'm honored that a lot of readers are treating it as such.
Nice guess Ghostslayer!
And thanks for the awesome thread! Im definitely gonna be using these strategies to help me get out of the poor house!
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