Super Booster UPDATE!
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-06-16 11:34 in The Global Training Room Test Server
"Hey, folks. So its always fun to be the bearer of good news, and thats exactly what weve got for you today: an exclusive announcement that were revealing to you first. Weve hinted at the possibility of a proper, fluffy wolf tail for a while now, and yknow what? How about we give that to you sooner rather than later?"
Ok so if they give us the Beast pack that a lot of people are asking for and the wolf tail was part of it then it would have cost $9.99 also.
Instead of thinking you are getting screwed over think of it like DP and DS; The real pack that it is in isnt going to be around for 6 + months and they gave it to us early because we are great players.
If you do not want to buy it thats fine lets try not to convince people that it has to be free because then every thing we get should be free! We have all asked for DP and we are gladly paying for it.
Now think like a marketer for a min. If we put this tail in and it sells like hotcakes then we need to do a beast pak. Simple right?
I for one have no need for it; But my 10 y/o little girl has at least 9 toons that this will work with; So will I get it of course so I can see the look on her face when she puts it on her main scrapper.
Id probably pay twice the amount. Thanks Dave and Jay and their team for fighting to get this put in for us.
Plus, David had told us that the tail was in production a few weeks ago.
Products like this sometimes have things lined up that have no solid plan on how/when they will be implemented.
They made the decision to throw it in with this pack.
Whether or not any of us want to scrutinize the decision they did make, its not a simple matter of people "screamed" and the Devs reacted.
I can find fault in including this item in a pay-for pack... But what is so wrong about the company you subscribe to for entertainment purposes throwing their customers stuff that they've asked for?
"Bad precedence" and all that silliness... Yesss... those pesky developers showing a human element and fitting customer requests into their plans last minute... From tube socks to color television, sure enough, this is another sign of the end of the world. Next thing we know... people will be expecting everything they complain about to get what they asked for within three days! Just wait for the backlash from that when they don't don't get what they wanted!! Muhahahaha! Doooooooom!!
Meh... why's everybody have to make a big deal out of every little thing?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't... Damned how you did, damned how you didn't...
Sometimes... stuff just happens, ya know? Sometimes you might find that it is good stuff.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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It's not just the tail itself, it's the story behind the tail, and the way devs handle these things.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
While I admire the Jay and David Nakayama for their resolve to please their fan base, I can't get over how the simple inclusion of a single Tail was enough to change that fan base from angry protesters into adoring fans. We are all so delightfully dramatic sometimes.
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CoV added some animal parts. We got wolf heads and legs and the monstrous arms. But none have really been added since then. People have been waiting patiently for devs to add some more animal parts for YEARS now. If you look around we have A METRIC TON of cyborg and tech parts (seriously you could build a bridge to the moon with all of them), but very little in the way of non-human animal types.
Devs had two chances to include animal parts and missed the mark both times. Lots of us were expecting animal parts for the science pack. You know, Jeckyll and Hyde sort of thing or the Hulk where you turn into a beast and have crazy stuff. Instead we got lab coats. We expected animal parts for the mutant pack. Positron even made a comment that animal parts sound like things that would be in the mutant pack. Instead we got glow in the dark zebras. The opportunity came up twice, and the devs missed it both times.
Now don't get me wrong, these are nice parts, and so were the ones in the science pack. However, they weren't what most people were expecting or wanting. It caused a divide between player and developers where we were all feeling very ignored because what we wanted wasn't what we were getting. It's going to a burger joint and asking for a burger, but they bring you a taco. A taco is a fine meal but it's not what we wanted. The point of communication breakdown is what we were not liking.
The addition of the tail shows that the devs are saying "Okay guys, sorry -- we ARE listening and we DO care." As I mentioned I've bought packs in the past that I don't even want, just to support CoH. This one was the first time I didn't feel like doing that. The change to add the tail due to player concern changed my mind on that stance.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Putting the wolf tail in the mutant pack is like putting the ties from the "Day Job" suits in the natural pack. Sure, you can still make a guy in a suit, just like you can still make a werewolf character, but you have to put up with missing out on a small but crucial detail unless you pay up.
Right now I can make a lycanthropic character with a wolf's head, a furry body, monstrous claws (hands and feet), and even use a costume change emote explicitly designed to facilitate such transformations all by default, but I can't have the tail for free?
Once again I ask: What's so different about a wolf's tail compared to a cat or lizard or demon or rat or bunny tail that requires a $10 price tag? Why can I make a complete cat-man character for free, but have to pay for a complete wolf-man?
And that's all ignoring the fact that on the whole, I don't consider animal people to really fit under the "Mutant" designation anyway. Considering the game itself features scientific werewolves, the iconic werewolf mythos tends to lean towards magic, and that pre-existing races of animal folk would fall under natural origin, any connection being put forth is tenuous at best.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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That's my issue with it.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Once again I ask: What's so different about a wolf's tail compared to a cat or lizard or demon or rat or bunny tail that requires a $10 price tag? Why can I make a complete cat-man character for free, but have to pay for a complete wolf-man?
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Again - I plan to buy the pack regardless. I don't have the fortitude to make a stand on any sort of principle not to buy it! But I think it just should be included with the other free tails. Anything above and beyond in a Beast Pack - make us pay for that (and I will - gladly).
My Corner of DeviantART
The Queen's Menagerie
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Nicely put...things might become a little more vocal when this hits live!
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Originally Posted by Goblin_Queen
That's my issue with it.
Again - I plan to buy the pack regardless. I don't have the fortitude to make a stand on any sort of principle not to buy it! But I think it just should be included with the other free tails. Anything above and beyond in a Beast Pack - make us pay for that (and I will - gladly). |
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That's exactly what I fear. I can promise you that they would not give away an item that people had already paid for.
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Originally Posted by Exodus_V
Nicely put...things might become a little more vocal when this hits live!
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Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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What is the difference between having in this pack rather than the beasts pack later on? People have been clamoring for beast mutation stuff in this pack so at the very least the tail was fast tracked into this pack, which still fits in the theme.
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Once again I ask: What's so different about a wolf's tail compared to a cat or lizard or demon or rat or bunny tail that requires a $10 price tag? Why can I make a complete cat-man character for free, but have to pay for a complete wolf-man?
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
While I agree, throwing in the tail was probably a bit of a cynical marketting stunt (normally a pack sells like hotcakes no matter whats in it), the Mutant pack had certain expectations put on it by people, I admit, I was one of them so when released it was greeted with quite a lot of 'oh...that it?' reponses and general 'meh' from people as well. So the Mutant booster didn't look like it had the near universal acceptance. Now they've added a tail that people want, it'll sell like hotcakes like the rest of the packs.
Look at it this way, the meat and potatos of the pack is the two costumes, the Tail is thrown in for free with the pack.
I WILL buy a pack if it has one thing in it I can use, Martial Arts for the Ninja run was a good example, I barely use the rest of the pack but I use that temp power like nobodies business, to the point where I have a few characters who are pure Ninja run travel power only. Cyborg I bought for the Arms, because I have a character who needed a decent tech upgrade, Science for the Cosmetic Surgeon. Magic was the only one I bought and have used almost all the parts from it.
Now that Wolf tail, I've got a number of concepts I can probably use that for, since there's now something in the pack that I actually want, I'm going to buy it. I'm was disappointed with it, now I don't mind blowing a £6 on it to get the tail, since I'll get the self buff temp power out of the deal and a set of wings which I can ponder using on something or other.
This probably would have ended up in a 'Beast Pack' or require Going Rogue required to buy anyway, it's doubtful it would have ever ended up being free.
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Even if the wolf tail showed up in a Beast Pack, I'd still be posting about it, because it's still an unfair inconsistency. But at least it wouldn't look quite so much like a quick cash grab as it does currently.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
What is the difference between having in this pack rather than the beasts pack later on? The difference is obvious, you can use it now. People have been clamoring for beast mutation stuff in this pack so at the very least the tail was fast tracked into this pack, which still fits in the theme.
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And, as shown by the rest of the post you quoted, I disagree about it fitting the theme.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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[sarcasm]What's the difference between a wedding dress and a pencil skirt that I can have one without paying and have to pay for the other[/sarcasm]|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Once again I ask: What's so different about a wolf's tail compared to a cat or lizard or demon or rat or bunny tail that requires a $10 price tag? Why can I make a complete cat-man character for free, but have to pay for a complete wolf-man?
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The whole concept of paid cosmetic parts is that you have to pay to make characters that you couldn't make before. That's how the entire distribution model works. I don't know why it's so confusing to people when it comes to tails when that's exactly how it's worked for every other booster pack that's come out so far.
Every other pack has had costume pieces that are just as important (in terms of character concept) to the people who use them as this tail is to you people who want it now. There is nothing unique or special about restricting access to this piece that makes it different than restricting access to a pair of wings or shoulderpads.
You can't make a boxer character without waiting for a veteran reward. Why is making a dog character a more fundamental choice than a boxer character?
Finally...
Oh, you have to be a Mutant Packer to get a wolf tail.
I see...
And that's a picture of a mutant?
I kind of always thought werewolves were supernatural ....
...oh...yeah... new stuff ... have to pay to be cool ...
... very well ... maybe I'll get that instead of Going Rogue (how many character slots?). We'll have to wait and see.
I hate to be a downer, but some of the marketing moves in this game are really getting me down lately, but an animated Wolf tail is certainly a good lure for selling a booster pack.
With "animated wolf tails" being in the "Mutant" booster pack - I certainly can't imagine what other "mutant" things will be in there!
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I vehemently disagree. It was entirely possible to make a cyborg prior to the booster pack, it was entirely possible to make a mad scientist prior to the booster pack, it was entirely possible to make a ninja prior to the booster pack, and it was entirely possible to make a wizard prior to the booster pack, which I won't bother linking to, since that one has about three kajillion possible permutations.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
The whole concept of paid cosmetic parts is that you have to pay to make characters that you couldn't make before. That's how the entire distribution model works. I don't know why it's so confusing to people when it comes to tails when that's exactly how it's worked for every other booster pack that's come out so far.
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And before you ask, I decided to mostly link to NPCs using player-available pieces because it would've eaten up too much time to go grab screenshots of actual player characters that I didn't have lying around.
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| You can't make a boxer character without waiting for a veteran reward. Why is making a dog character a more fundamental choice than a boxer character? |
On the other hand, I've never raised a big stink about booster packs before, because for the most part their pieces weren't character-defining in my opinion. They were generally extensions of existing costume themes with slightly higher-quality designs and other bells and whistles. Even the initial Mutant booster sets operated like this.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
Let's see...
They could keep wolf tail in, sell bunches of booster packs, make oodles of money, have lots of happy players, and upset IanTheM1
OR
Take the wolf tail out, sell a lot less booster packs, anger lots of players, but make IanTheM1 happy.
Tough choice.
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Fixed, because you don't seem to be keeping up with my argument here.
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Originally Posted by ZedOmega
Let's see...
They could keep wolf tail in, sell bunches of booster packs, make oodles of money, have lots of happy players, and upset IanTheM1 as well as others that agree with her. OR Take the wolf tail out of the pack, and put in the main game for free, sell marginally fewer booster packs, but still make lots of players happy. |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Personally, I love that a dog/wolf/fox tail option is being added... but don't like that the tail will be part of the Mutant Booster pack. It should really be part of the free portion of Issue 19, IMPO. But I guess they'll just figure that having it in there will sell even more copies of the booster 
The wolf tail was never going to be free in this reality or any other. It was going to be in some future booster pack. We are just getting it early which is nice.
So the best way to look at it is "you have to have the beast pack to get the wolf/fox tail (and bodies) but if you have the mutant pack that includes the tail TOO."
Yeah, for whatever it is worth, I, too, would rather see this tail put in as a free addition to the game. Not only from my own selfish/wanting stuff for free stance, but also (And the only honorable aspect of it, hehe) I would like to see all players (Including brand new players) have a canine tail to use in the costume creation screen.
I'm not sure what their plans were for the tail, beforehand (If they had a plan yet). So, who knows.
Maybe they'll have another canine tail included in another patch,
Even if the shape is the same, there are many patterns that could be added to that particular tail model (Unless it already includes such options).
Still, a more curved and slender (yet still shaggy) canine tail could certainly be added in the future.
Regardless, I do agree that basic, generic sorts of pieces would be better represented in the core game... and only expanded on to a more specialized or detailed degree through boosters and such.
Just my opinions.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I think the part you're missing is "if the devs happen to agree with it".|
mercykilling forgets some: Content of the booster aside, all this says to me is "if it's screamed about long and loud enough on the boards, the developers will eventually cave in and give it to us". Which isn't a good precedent to set, guys. Especially given your stance on it in the past. |
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| *shrug* I -am- all for listening to the playerbase and trying to appease, but....when game bugs and glitches that have been around forever (and asked to be fixed for just as long) gets pushed aside just so some people can have a freaking furry tail to add to their characters......it saddens me. |
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| Kudos for listening to the playerbase......but a big subtraction in the methodology. Something like this should've been included from day one. |
Dec out.
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And it's entirely possible to make a wolf-man prior to this booster pack. Since when is "tail" a critical part of a wolf-man? I made a wolf-guy (long since deleted) my first week or so way back in 2006.|
IanTheM1 argues badly: I vehemently disagree. It was entirely possible to make a cyborg prior to the booster pack, it was entirely possible to make a mad scientist prior to the booster pack, it was entirely possible to make a ninja prior to the booster pack, and it was entirely possible to make a wizard prior to the booster pack, which I won't bother linking to, since that one has about three kajillion possible permutations. |
EDIT: Duh, sorry, I totally missed your point, didn't I? Um, nevermind. **blush**
Dec out.
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I have such an amusing image in my head that goes with this post.|
Originally Posted by Sapphire7
*deep inhale* SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE!!! Thank you David! Thank you Sexy Jay! Thank you thank you! I had no idea I would be this excited about one piece. Yes, I've wanted more animal bits for quite a while, but I thought I'd just be like "yay!" - but no! I am all atwitter over just this one piece! I've had a character idea mulling around in my head for a while but was unsure what direction to go with her, and seeing this, now I know! THIS IS SO AWESOME! |
It involves much runing in circles, jumping up and down, and waving of arms/hands...
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Originally Posted by Goblin_Queen
That's my issue with it.
Again - I plan to buy the pack regardless. I don't have the fortitude to make a stand on any sort of principle not to buy it! But I think it just should be included with the other free tails. Anything above and beyond in a Beast Pack - make us pay for that (and I will - gladly). |
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
The wolf tail was never going to be free in this reality or any other. It was going to be in some future booster pack. We are just getting it early which is nice.
So the best way to look at it is "you have to have the beast pack to get the wolf/fox tail (and bodies) but if you have the mutant pack that includes the tail TOO." |
I just dont get they listened to one thing and added a tail now im happy over hey the tail is free and later you will be offered a complete animal booster set!
Things to consider:
1. Did Jay knock out a tail that fast?...i know he's good but mercy!
2. It was going to be part of GR and now u get to pay for it? Sorry animal booster fans(me included)
3. A beast/animal booster is already in the works? Can we get a heads up(looks at marketing dept).
Few seem to care about the cash strapped animal/booster fans who could care a flip about the mutant pack but would jump all over something they have been waiting for...except now they get to pay for it on top of GR.
I guess its totally moot now...yes i will be buying the pack and not for the tail...yes im thankfull for the hardwork by the dev's...but something smells fishy...i wonder if there is internal argument going on between the rednames and marketing?
Annnnd we've pretty much passed the "lock thread because of massive topic drift onto one of the Usual Flamewars" point.
---Dave
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Do you honestly think|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I'm also still a little shell-shocked that people immediately praised Jay and David for listening to what they wanted (and that is great, and David's overall level of communication has been top-notch), but they glossed over its presence in a booster pack they otherwise didn't like or were already going to buy. In other words, everyone asked for a "Beast Parts" Booster Pack, and what we got was a single piece tacked onto an unrelated pack. I don't consider those to be the same thing.
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a) that the tail was made in about a week, just in response to people complaining
b) that if you believe "a)" they could have made an entire animal part booster pack in time for the pack to go live?!?
Entirely separate from this, I think that David isn't quite aware yet what "public demand" means. The public demands new things, and also fixing old things. It demands that something be included, and also that it not be included. It demands that items be free, and also that they be premium, and also that they be unlockable. "The public" is a hundred thousand self-absorbed screaming infants (I'm the one in the ducky blanket). The public demands everything, and they demand it yesterday, and by god they'll quit right now if they don't get it.
Providing, in good time, some of the things that are requested, when they can be made to fit into the schedule and in accordance with larger development initiatives, is a good thing. Acceding to the "public demand" is a cynical stunt at best, and I sincerely hope that this late addition is just what it appears to be: a clever cash grab and means to placate the vocal public while gauging demand for a future more focused beast pack. Because if this is really David feeling that he is obliged to try to make all the players happy, then I worry for him and for the game.
@SPTrashcan
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