Powerset killed by power _____
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 11:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I can't think of any set killed by a single power, really. There are plenty of sets that generally I don't like, whether because of bad numbers, conflicts with my style (i.e they're boring), or that just bother my sense of aesthetics overall. But if there's one bad power in a set I otherwise like I'll just skip THAT power if it bothers me so.
For the record, I don't care for Electric Blast either, but it's not because of Sparky. I dislike the sound, the relatively lower damage, and a secondary effect I have to really go out of my way to leverage. Awesome tier 9, and the sleep is nice, otherwise meh meh meh.
Speed Boost kills Kinetics for me. I have no no desire to reapply a buff to 7 people every 120 seconds but it's such a strong buff that if I skipped it (or took it and didn't use it) I'd feel like I was shorting my teammates
The only powers that I'd say "kill" any set are the ones that are seen as absolutely necessary to get in order to be effective, whether or not those powers are necessary or not. One example is Granite Armor, Speed Boost is another, but even here, these powers aren't what "kills" the set, it's public opinion.
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Stop thinking of Voltaic Sentinel as a pet, and start thinking of it as an attack you use ahead of time.
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Originally Posted by greencreek99
Can anyone give me a good answer of why sparky can't be permanent or at least on a 4 min timer? It's just stupid in my opinion!
I don't think there is anything else i hate so much in the game as resummoning constantly! |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Devices gets a double whammy in Gun Drone and Time Bomb.
I agree with Stone Armour relying way too heavily on Granite (without serious IO investment) Although really what 'kills' Stone for me (as in, I wont play it) is the combo of Granite and Rooted. Rootes, to me, is a horrible power. Stone itself, IMO, should be overhauled, but in Castles words, it something they have to tread real damn careful with.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Mercs: Serum.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Devices/Defender + Corruptor Traps: Time Bomb. Useless.
Scrapper Primaries: Confront. On the plus side, it means I only have 8 powers to pick.
Gravity Control/Dark Miasma: Dimension Shift/Black Hole. Does anyone use these? Anyone?
Oh, and as Tech and someone else said, Granite. Makes me wish Rushmore was Invun/Stone or Willpower/Stone now. Rooted is part of the problem, stone is another, and no minimal FX option.
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For me, what kills stone is the fuglyness of Granite.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Devices gets a double whammy in Gun Drone and Time Bomb.
I agree with Stone Armour relying way too heavily on Granite (without serious IO investment) Although really what 'kills' Stone for me (as in, I wont play it) is the combo of Granite and Rooted. Rootes, to me, is a horrible power. Stone itself, IMO, should be overhauled, but in Castles words, it something they have to tread real damn careful with. |
I never understood why they changed all the stone armor graphics but granite, back in the days.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Stop thinking of Voltaic Sentinel as a pet, and start thinking of it as an attack you use ahead of time.
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Hmm...not bad I first thought but I still don't like the 5th column Heil pose of the summon anim
Gonna give your thought a try. Thanks
No powerset is killed by HAVING a power to me. Plenty are killed by NOT having a power, however, specifically when it's replaced with something stupid. I'll just keep on trumpeting about Blaster damage auras that require you to STAY in melee on an AT pretty much defined by trying to stay AWAY from Melee.
And, of course, the AR/Dev combo, which gives up a lot of single-target potential and get Smoke Grenade and Gun Drone, instead. Don't I feel lucky...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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because Granite is exposed to the player as an OVERLAY COSTUME. It basically uses the same sort of costume-overlay tech that backs the Kheldian Dwarf forms. |
Originally Posted by Spinomania
For me, what kills stone is the fuglyness of Granite.
I never understood why they changed all the stone armor graphics but granite, back in the days. |
Exposing Costume Overlay Modification to the end user through the interface required more BACKGROUND ENGINE WORK in addition to USER INTERFACE MODIFICATIONS.
The complexity of exposing Costume Overlays to the end user are one of the reasons the developers went ahead and did the power customizations THAT THEY HAD COMPLETED AND WERE READY FOR USE.
If the developers had tried to cover every single player exposed power with the customization system, we would STILL be waiting for the tech to arrive.
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I would argue that the AT is defined by 'as much damage as possible', not the location from where that damage is dealt. Most powers in most Blaster secondaries require you to take the risk of melee in order to deal more damage.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
an AT pretty much defined by trying to stay AWAY from Melee.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Or if you look at it a different way, blaster secondaries like that are there to help you out when THE FOES come into melee with YOU.
Dec out.
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To much work. Granite isn't just some armor you toggle on, it actually replaces your character model with a DE Boulder model. If they wanted to make granite armor a different color they would have to redo the entire model. Which would've taken to much time out of their schedule back then.
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Originally Posted by Spinomania
For me, what kills stone is the fuglyness of Granite.
I never understood why they changed all the stone armor graphics but granite, back in the days. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Yep, this is the one example that sprung to my mind when I read the thread titel.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Speed Boost kills Kinetics for me. I have no no desire to reapply a buff to 7 people every 90 seconds but it's such a strong buff that if I skipped it (or took it and didn't use it) I'd feel like I was shorting my teammates
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I don't think he's talking about power customization, but about how the stone armor powers graphics were changed at some point before that.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
because Granite is exposed to the player as an OVERLAY COSTUME. It basically uses the same sort of costume-overlay tech that backs the Kheldian Dwarf forms.
Exposing Costume Overlay Modification to the end user through the interface required more BACKGROUND ENGINE WORK in addition to USER INTERFACE MODIFICATIONS. The complexity of exposing Costume Overlays to the end user are one of the reasons the developers went ahead and did the power customizations THAT THEY HAD COMPLETED AND WERE READY FOR USE. If the developers had tried to cover every single player exposed power with the customization system, we would STILL be waiting for the tech to arrive. |
Rage ruins SS for me. The set loses a lot by not taking it, and I hate that crash enough not to make another one.
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ID is a much better example of this. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Speed Boost kills Kinetics for me. I have no no desire to reapply a buff to 7 people every 90 seconds but it's such a strong buff that if I skipped it (or took it and didn't use it) I'd feel like I was shorting my teammates
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I've lost count of kins that don't take one of the best temp buffs in the game because it's got such a short timer.
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possible interpretation. Hadn't thought of it that way.
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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Bacon
I don't think he's talking about power customization, but about how the stone armor powers graphics were changed at some point before that.
Rage ruins SS for me. The set loses a lot by not taking it, and I hate that crash enough not to make another one. |
Shield Defense, Ninjutsu and Super Reflexes all have mez protection that's not a toggle, but a click. Not only is it not perma until SOs, but what's the point any more? Back in the day, it made perfect sense. It had to be reapplied, but it couldn't be de-toggled. Nowadays, when mez protection doesn't detoggle, it's just a gimped power, methinks.
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Or if you look at it a different different way, the full potential of a Blaster is realized in collaboration with teammates who cover the gaps in their portfolio, just like Tankers and Defenders, the other specialist ATs. All of whom are still capable of soloing, and all of whom do great things for teams.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Or if you look at it a different way, blaster secondaries like that are there to help you out when THE FOES come into melee with YOU.
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Also, /Dev has the single most powerful damage spike in the game - with enough preparation.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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Well at least in the case of Traps the rest of the set is awesome so while it would be wonderful to have a useful T9 it's not wenough to kill the set on it's own.|
Originally Posted by Zortel
Devices/Defender + Corruptor Traps: Time Bomb. Useless.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
ID is a much better example of this.
I've lost count of kins that don't take one of the best temp buffs in the game because it's got such a short timer. |
Speed Boost on the other hand adds a significant recharge boost to the team which means that potentially game changing powers (like nukes, powerful AoEs or long recharge buffs/debuffs) are up more often which provides a very noticeable benefit to the team overall.
As a player I wouldn't feel bad about not keeping ID on teammates (excluding a few edge cases like fighting GW in the STF or a situation where a player really needs the extra resistance) but by not using SB I really feel like I'm not giving the team my all.
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Yeah, but that applies to pretty much everybody, doesn't it? I look at the solo aspects of sets first, because on a team pretty much everybody rocks.
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SpittingTrashcan thinks globally: Or if you look at it a different different way, the full potential of a Blaster is realized in collaboration with teammates who cover the gaps in their portfolio, just like Tankers and Defenders, the other specialist ATs. All of whom are still capable of soloing, and all of whom do great things for teams. |
Dec out.
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Not so much actually. It's true that everyone contributes damage, survivability, and force multiplication to various degrees, and any team that has enough survivability to keep alive and enough damage to defeat enemies is going to do all right. However, Blasters, Tankers, and Defenders are the archetypes that specifically have damage, survivability, and force multiplication respectively as their specialty, such that they have a significant lead over any other AT in that specialty, and a notable deficit in the other two categories.* Because of their specialization, they have a distinct edge when working on a team that covers their deficits and allows them to get the most out of their specialty. This is the elephant in the room whenever their deficits are being discussed: they're weak alone and strong on teams by design.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Yeah, but that applies to pretty much everybody, doesn't it?
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Fortunately, for those who feel that the deficits are not worth the specialization, there are 5 ATs that have a more even blend of abilities, and 2 ATs that can do everything all by themselves.
* Although I'm well aware that this is increasingly untrue as players, assisted by developers, continue to push the ends toward the middle and vice versa.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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Considering that the developers have told us pretty much what I'm saying several times, I'm inclined to go with that interpretation. It's the old "Range as a form of defence" rhetoric that was never actually true, but was nevertheless officially supported last time I checked. In fact, I forgot who it was that said enemies had higher melee damage mods than ranged damage mods, so it was still safer to be at range.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I would argue that the AT is defined by 'as much damage as possible', not the location from where that damage is dealt. Most powers in most Blaster secondaries require you to take the risk of melee in order to deal more damage.
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Blasters have always been sold as the "glass cannon" of ATs, and I believe even the old manual states as much. I don't want to go digging mine out as it's three boxes down and on a shelf, so I'll leave it to questionable memory.
Besides, look at how Blast sets are designed - those that get melee attacks AT ALL get those up to about their third or fourth power pick. Almost no set gets melee attacks later on, with the exception of Total Focus.
Furthermore, if the intention of Blaster secondaries were to deal damage, then Devices fails SPECTACULARLY bad, and I can just turn the argument around for almost no loss in validity. I could probably put Ice Manipulation in there, too.
This whole thing actually stems from a pretty crucial question that no-one, player or developer, has ever been able to answer - what are Blaster secondaries supposed to do? Deal damage? Devices can't. Act as support? Fire Manipulation can't. Keep things at range? Few actually CAN.
But again - what does a Blaster need with a damage aura? Are you seriously and honestly telling me that you would dive into melee range of a whole large spawn (large enough to make it worth the cost) and STAND THERE while they take swings at you? Can you honestly survive that without softcapping defence or whatever it is the ebil marketeers do with Inventions?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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For me electric blast is killed by the short timer of Voltaic sentinel.
Can anyone give me a good answer of why sparky can't be permanent or at least on a 4 min timer? It's just stupid in my opinion!
I don't think there is anything else i hate so much in the game as resummoning constantly!