Powerset killed by power _____
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 11:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I don't play support, but I sympathise from my experience with Masterminds. I played a Thermal Mastermind recently, and while I could grit my teeth and rebuff all six demons, twice, every four minutes. Fine, it sucks, but I can do it. However, my patience for buffing them with whatever the status protection power was even 90 seconds evaporated after the very first try. No way in HELL am I rebuffing every 90 seconds. In fact, I can barely tolerate doing it even four.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Speed Boost is why I will never play a Kin. I can barely tolerate bubbling on a FF; a 90 second duration targeted ally buff is right out, and Kins that team and don't have SB are really only hurting themselves to a degree I wouldn't be able to ignore.
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So, yeah, if I had a buff that I HAD to do this with, I'd punch something, then delete the character as soon as I realised what I was playing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Been saying that since literally Issue 5 beta, when Sonic was first created (said it in this thread also). If you haven't actually seen or played Sonic Blast, and you tend to dismiss sleep as mitigation, you really can't appreciate this combo.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
*With the possible exception of Sonic/Energy. Seriously, Siren's Song is practically cheating. At that point you're soloing like a Dom who kills faster.
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I dug up a level 19 Sonic/Energy on test that I left there long ago. No inventions. No SOs. Siren's Song itself only has one slot, and its slotted for accuracy. I just found something simple for her to take on, because I'm a bit rusty on Sonic/En: a spawn with two +1 minions and a +1 Lt. This is something any blaster can take on really, but the point is that Sonic/Energy can take on this spawn with literally *zero* risk. It can take on spawns three times the size practically like a controller once it has any sort of decent slotting. But the point was to show what this combo can do practically out of the box, and for its entire leveling career. More importantly, it suggests a reason for a player to invest heavily in blapper attacks: with Sirens, you're heavily rewarded for leaning towards high DPA single target attacks, regardless of range.
The silliness that is Siren's Song is here. At the end you can see the slotting on that character, or lack of slotting as the case may be.
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I love that one emote. Not to spoil it. Now I have to explain what I found funny in a police report, but sometimes those really are pretty funny anyway....
Power Boost and Boost Range turn Sirens Song from "really good" into "completely bonkers". Nonetheless, I have a soft spot in my heart for my mulleted metalhead Son/Elec. I should play him more, but I have a low stress tolerance so I end up rolling moar Tanks.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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That is exactly what I've been saying.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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When I play a Scrapper and I accidentally turn a blind corner into a boss, my reaction is "Oh, a boss. OK, I guess." whereas when I play a Blaster and turn a blind corner into a boss, my reaction is more like "ZOMG! OH, no! A boss! Aaah!" And that really is how it works. With a Scrapper, if you screw up, you have ample time to do something about it, even if that's to use limited consumables. With a Blaster, if you screw up, you're ******, if you'll pardon my English. |
I love that element of playing a Blaster.
For me... it feels a bit more like when reading Spider-Man.
Oh, sure, he's super tough and all... But really, since you're so implanted in his inner dialog... and he gets beat up so much... Heading into a base with a bunch of angry baddies is usually wrought with some tension and use of his quick wit and spidey sense to make it through as unscathed as possible.
That's how I feel soloing as a blaster. "Use your head Spidey... Whoa, who's this guy?? Ack! Better think quick!"
Some people love being in this sort of situation and some people don't.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
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Isn't it AWESOME? That may be the problem. Blasters are NOT a safe AT to solo, ever.* They aren't particularly safe on teams either, unless you can rely on your teammates to be on the ball, all the time. If you don't like the high-risk playstyle, the AT might not be for you. Incidentally, after playing Blasters so much my first Scrapper to 50 was /regen (if I misclick I die) and then I had a stupid amount of fun with /SR (if the RNG gods aren't appeased by my sacrifice of a billion zillion Rikti I die). *With the possible exception of Sonic/Energy. Seriously, Siren's Song is practically cheating. At that point you're soloing like a Dom who kills faster. |
And, funny enough... /Regen and /SR are my two scrappers as well!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Stone mallets kill stone melee/earth manip for me, they're just too good to pass up and yet the look kills any character concept I might want to play.
On Topic:
Another thing I realized is that Power Customization really cut out a lot of One Power Killing a Powerset for me... Mainly because I tend to be a concept sort of player and power-chooser. The visuals can do a power in for me.
I had a SS/Invuln Brute that I ended up remaking as SS/SR because I was a bit turned of with the glows and effects on the Invuln powers.
Now, with the No FX options... I'd have been happy to keep it as Invuln, hehe.
So... Power Customization has saved a lot of powersets for me!
Also, as a Bots/FF MM, I can only imagine the annoyance factor of being a Kin with Speedboost.
I think that putting shields on all of my pets and teammates every 4 minutes is likely my limit.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Oooh! BINGO!|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Stone mallets kill stone melee/earth manip for me, they're just too good to pass up and yet the look kills any character concept I might want to play.
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I knew there was one I wasn't remembering!
Yep, I love the rock fists look, but the mallets just didn't fit the concept I was toying with. I could probably live with it if I really wanted to make the character, but I wasn't that into it (And had plenty of other alts already).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Ha, and alternatively the giant two-handed hammer IS what I was going for with one of my characters (Tanker then Brute and now waiting for GR to be a heroic Fire/Earth Dom), and the stone fists frankly kinda mess it up. Not too horribly though, I just say she has power over stone in general.
A very YMMV game in general, this.
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Mhmm! |
Originally Posted by Primal
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A very YMMV game in general, this. |
And a very beautiful thing that is!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I DO love this kind of tension when playing. The thing is that once I know an enemy group in and out, I can perfectly plan each combat(doesn't always turn out perfect, but still...).|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
That is exactly what I've been saying.
I love that element of playing a Blaster. For me... it feels a bit more like when reading Spider-Man. Oh, sure, he's super tough and all... But really, since you're so implanted in his inner dialog... and he gets beat up so much... Heading into a base with a bunch of angry baddies is usually wrought with some tension and use of his quick wit and spidey sense to make it through as unscathed as possible. That's how I feel soloing as a blaster. "Use your head Spidey... Whoa, who's this guy?? Ack! Better think quick!" Some people love being in this sort of situation and some people don't. |
So if the thrill of being on the edge doesn't appeal to you, then blasters may not be your thing.
Haha! Exactly!
And, funny enough... /Regen and /SR are my two scrappers as well![/QUOTE]
I just like beating things up. Kicks, punches, a staff, a big hammer, a shield, it all works for me. And yeah, they can be statues Jack.
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Cloak of Darkness.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So... Power Customization has saved a lot of powersets for me!
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That is all.
And as for actually contributing something ON TOPIC, Granite and Rooted ensure I will never play Stone Armor. Oh sure, it can be played without Granite, and you can make it look kinda cool with power customization, but Rooted is soooooo slooooooow. And you can't jump.
Ice Shields too. I despise the look, even if they're customized to be as unobtrusive as possible. If we had the option to decline buffs, the Cold shields are the only ones I would decline. I actually find them distracting.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Case in point: Spines/. The bananas sucked ***. The new Spine/ models are pretty sweet.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
On Topic:
Another thing I realized is that Power Customization really cut out a lot of One Power Killing a Powerset for me... Mainly because I tend to be a concept sort of player and power-chooser. The visuals can do a power in for me. I had a SS/Invuln Brute that I ended up remaking as SS/SR because I was a bit turned of with the glows and effects on the Invuln powers. Now, with the No FX options... I'd have been happy to keep it as Invuln, hehe. So... Power Customization has saved a lot of powersets for me! |
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This is probably the reason why I don't like to play Blasters. I like to be in control, not panicking.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
So if the thrill of being on the edge doesn't appeal to you, then blasters may not be your thing.
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Then again, I played a character I hated (EM/DA Brute, before IOs) to 50, so I'm just stubborn. I really want to try having one of each AT at 50, eventually, even if I'll never play that AT again.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
I don't panic on blasters. I just...um, retreat very quickly. The terrifying shrieking? That's my...uh, battle cry! Yeah, that's it! 
Dec out.
Oh, hey! Just thought of another "lack of a power" that kills sets for me. This comes in two parts of the same whole: AR/Dev Blaster
AR lacks almost any sort of single-target damage to it. It has kludges, like trying to use Sniper Rifle in combat (and failing) or trying to use Ignite via the complicated setup of immobilization + Ignite, but really - it's just BAD. Lacking Aim doesn't really help matters any, robbing AR of both frontloading its damage and handling bosses easily. Combined with the fact that Full Auto may well be the weakest, most limited of Blaster T9 powers, and "the lack of decent powers" kills the set for me.
Devices lacks Build Up and any sort of damage that I don't have to waste masses of time to set up beforehand and hope enemies will walk into it at just the right time. This, combined with AR's problems, is crippling. Add to that the fact that the set has a lot of garbage in it, like Cloaking Device, Smoke Grenade, Gun Drone and so forth which could have been used for WORTHWHILE powers, and this kills the set for me.
Both together ensure that I will never, EVER play an AR/Dev Blaster again until something happens to BOTH sets. And it's even worse because I played one to 50 already...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHA...|
Originally Posted by Iannis
lol, enjoy your wide open to pummeling regen/heal-based sets on a low-Health AT. Hope you have a high tolerance to getting splattered against the wall frequently..
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You do not know Regen and Willpower at all if you think that.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
AR lacks almost any sort of single-target damage to it. It has kludges, like trying to use Sniper Rifle in combat (and failing) or trying to use Ignite via the complicated setup of immobilization + Ignite, but really - it's just BAD. Lacking Aim doesn't really help matters any, robbing AR of both frontloading its damage and handling bosses easily. Combined with the fact that Full Auto may well be the weakest, most limited of Blaster T9 powers, and "the lack of decent powers" kills the set for me.
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lolwut? Full Auto is awesome. It's no RoA, but it beats any nuke-type T9, easy. And dude. Flamethrower is one of the best spammable AoE powers in the game.
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Most limited? I would have to argue the opposite; it's the second-most useful Blaster T9 power. I can use it whenever. I can get the recharge down to where it's available every spawn. If I miss a guy, I can immediately shoot him with my other powers without worrying about having blues handy. I don't have to jump into the middle of a spawn to use it.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Combined with the fact that Full Auto may well be the weakest, most limited of Blaster T9 powers, and "the lack of decent powers" kills the set for me.
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If you think of it as a nuke, then yeah, it sucks. It isn't a nuke. Just because all the other Blaster sets get nukes for their tier 9 doesn't make Full Auto and Rain of Arrows nukes. Treating it like one is like expecting Rise of the Phoenix to save your skin. It breaks the pattern of the AT, and should be treated accordingly.
The only thing that Full Auto needs is a 16-target cap. Nukes break the PBAoE target cap rules, why can't Full Auto break the cone rules as well? I wouldn't mind Flamethrower getting a 16-target cap as well, just to buff the set as a whole a little more.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I know that I'm late to the party here, but I'd still like to throw my 2 influence in. Blasters should be at range whenever they can. It enhances their survivability and allows them to create a single uninterrupted attack chain 9 times out of 10.
The existence of Blappers are the reason why Blasters are infamous for dying all the time. The secondary powers, including the melee powers, are "designed" for the Blaster's personal DEFENSE, not offense.
This is why they are called Blasters, and not Punchers.
That being said, it's your money, do whatever you want. I just think you're being less efficient by not playing to your AT's strengths and instead playing actively with their weaknesses.
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The existence of incompetent aggro-magnets is the reason why Blasters are infamous for dying all the time. The Blapper playstyle requires a basic knowledge of game mechanics, which the "I'ma gonna open with Fireball, hey watch this....HEAL MEHsssssssssss" *splat* crowd seems to lack.|
Originally Posted by Westley
The existence of Blappers are the reason why Blasters are infamous for dying all the time. The secondary powers, including the melee powers, are "designed" for the Blaster's personal DEFENSE, not offense.
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Other people have already given a myriad of reasons why your second statement is wrong.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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The data doesn't back you up. If it did, when Castle datamined blasters prior to the Defiance 2.0 changes, powerset combinations with a lower number of melee attacks would have been dying at a far lower rate, and it would have almost certainly showed up in his statistics. Ranged blasters were pretty much dying at a rate comparable to blasters as a whole.|
Originally Posted by Westley
I know that I'm late to the party here, but I'd still like to throw my 2 influence in. Blasters should be at range whenever they can. It enhances their survivability and allows them to create a single uninterrupted attack chain 9 times out of 10.
The existence of Blappers are the reason why Blasters are infamous for dying all the time. The secondary powers, including the melee powers, are "designed" for the Blaster's personal DEFENSE, not offense. This is why they are called Blasters, and not Punchers. That being said, it's your money, do whatever you want. I just think you're being less efficient by not playing to your AT's strengths and instead playing actively with their weaknesses. |
Not everyone has the skillset to be a blapper. And the nerf to total focus made it harder for energy blappers in particular, which were among the more common types. But they self-selected themselves in or out of the lifestyle: if you find blapping keeps getting you killed, most players switch to another style. The ones that continued to do it were the better ones by attrition.
And I have to repeat this, because it seems to not be clear. I specifically asked Castle if blasters were explicitly intended to stay at range, and he said no. I amplified this by asking an additional question: was the intent of the ranged modifier increase to signal that range was the "correct" style for blasters, and melee was secondary? His response was that the exact opposite was true: the evidence suggested to him that melee attacks were *so* good that a lot of players were thinking that it was *melee* that was the "correct" style for blasters, and ranged attacks (except AoEs) were the lesser option. The increase in ranged modifier, he said, was to *equalize* the options, not to make range supreme.
I asked him one more question just to pound the point home: if the ranged modifier increase actually caused people to actually *abandon* blapping altogether because the ranged option was now far better than the melee option, would that be acceptable. He said no, that was not the intent.
As far as I'm concerned the question of whether blasters are *intended* to be ranged only is a settled matter as of Issue 11. There's simply no wiggle room in Castle's answers, and that's deliberate on my part because I asked him if I was allowed to repeat the answers. So I made sure the questions were unambiguous. Short of someone else overriding those decisions, they are very clear.
Whether an individual player *prefers* ranged or melee, or whether an individual player *is better* at melee or ranged is a separate issue. Players are supposed to choose their playstyles individually, and different people can come to different conclusions in that regard. You might personally think the powersets are easier to leverage purely from range, and melee range is for suckers. That's your prerogative. But they are definitely not designed that way: someone who thinks the exact opposite might be wrong in your eyes, but they are making an entirely valid decision in the *devs* eyes.
And will people stop saying Total Focus is a defensive power? Its really getting weird. Energy Punch is an offensive attack. Total Focus is an offensive attack. They are both designed explicitly to be offensive weapons. That's why Total Focus still does 3.56 scale damage, but no longer does Mag 4 stun. It had too good of a defensive side-effect for something that wasn't intended to be a defensive power.
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Quote:
I don't generally give two ***** about how powers look and rarely complain about animations looking bad (the exceptions are the Frozen Fists/Barrage animation and the Bitter Freeze Ray/Energy Transfer animation), but powers which cause negative effects for my character are what kills powersets for me. Really the only example I've got for that is Stone Armor, simply because I generally like to stay mobile and jump a lot, and two of the powers in that set remove my ability to do that. I don't particularly care that Granite turns me into a chunk of rock, but I do care that I can barely move around or jump while I'm using it.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Cloak of Darkness.
That is all. And as for actually contributing something ON TOPIC, Granite and Rooted ensure I will never play Stone Armor. Oh sure, it can be played without Granite, and you can make it look kinda cool with power customization, but Rooted is soooooo slooooooow. And you can't jump. Ice Shields too. I despise the look, even if they're customized to be as unobtrusive as possible. If we had the option to decline buffs, the Cold shields are the only ones I would decline. I actually find them distracting. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Seriously, I've never found sonic blast audio effects to be so annoying that I stopped playing what is otherwise a great(and under-estimated) blaster primary.
What kinds of sounds would you actually use for the set anyway? Pretty much anything you put there will sound weird when held against the theme. And all comic book sonic blasters I've seen have their blasts represented as loud and disorienting sounds.
No, I have no alternate suggestions. The sound of Sonic fits the set. Being appropriate, while admirable, is however not compelling enough for me to turn down the volume when playing. You'll note that I'm not making threads griping about it and claiming to be a majority, I just quietly disapprove. (Except for these two posts.)