Powerset killed by power _____
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 11:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The devs also fought against changing MoG for years. And this is a more complex situation than is useful as an example, because while MoG has always had a weird reputation, its original incarnation was actually much better than it was changed to over time. Perma-MoG was actually a legitimate, valid defensive options (and a really powerful one) so long as you didn't use superjump too much. The devs were certainly not going to spend too much time trying to "fix" a power that many players said was broken, but many others thought was good enough to keep running forever.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Ah, I got one! The original Moment of Glory was seen by many as not just useless, but actually debilitating to use, as I'm sure Evil Geko would agree. I don't really know what, the exact original design was, but it seems to have been intended to work similar to powers like Unstoppable, only with different drawbacks. When THAT bombed, Moment of Glory was turned into what has since been called "defence build up." I honestly wouldn't see that as enforcement of old design so much as salvaging a BAAAD power.
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(The problem came down to recharge: at 90s cycle time MoG's inability to heal was compensated by its effective heal to full on every cycle: when its duration *and* recharge were increased, the power was no stronger but its heal to full was severely diluted.)
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| I kind of feel that that's what happened to Blaster melee attacks when they bombed in Beta, but of course, that's just assertions with no proof at this point. |
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That's actually the best explanation I've seen on the matter, because it neatly describes how they feel to me in one word - rushed. A lot of sets actually felt rushed back at Launch, but most of those have been retweaked and fixed. Blaster secondaries... Not so much. I mean seriously - when's the last time something was added to Energy Manipulation, say? A few things were taken out of Power Boost and Total Focus' stun mag was dropped to 3, but was anything ever added? What was added to Devices? Smoke Grenade was fixed, Targeting drone was given that cop-out buff and a laughably broken power was barely even touched in the form of the Auto Turret to Gun Drone changeover. But that helped the set exactly... Not very much. By comparison, things like Super Reflexes got scaling resistances, defence debuff resistance, a decent T9 and a lower cost on Evasion, while Invulnerability got several incarnations of Unyielding Stance and later Unyielding with ever better stats and Regen go... Changed around a lot. Seriously, for something that feels as rushed and slapped together as Blaster secondaries, you'd think more would have been done about them over the years. |
Scrapper secondaries, sure, they were tweaked a lot, but that was both up and down. SR was actually changed more often - and nerfed more times - than Regen, actually, although a lot of that is only evident in hindsight. The devs were basically shooting in the dark on defensive powers in general, which is why SR, Invuln, and Regen were one step away from being randomly set in every issue. The question for me is less about what things were touched the most, but rather which needs were addressed by which changes. Blaster secondaries may have been rushed, but most of them aren't really demanding more attention. /Energy, /Elec, and /Ice I think most people would rather the devs leave alone. /Fire and /Devices people have been asking for more attention to, but the requests for attention aren't all consistent in what they want, and many just want the entire sets to be changed beyond recognition, which isn't going to happen.
So I would expect that since scrapper secondaries were broken every which way (too high, too low, sometimes both at the same time) but blaster secondaries are less so, its entirely logical that scrapper secondaries would have gotten more attention, keeping in mind lots of that attention was unwanted. Blasters as a whole have had as much attention as any other archetype, though, and probably more than most.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Sam,
I think that basically, the main issue is that you want/expect a particular playstyle to work with every blaster combo you choose. And in some cases whichever AT you choose.
I understand that rushing headlong into danger with abandon is your preferred choice of playstyle, but as someone who plays a lot of blasters, I can tell you that foresight and planning are what makes for a great blaster.
You seem to want a certain speed of progress, while playing in a certain way. Blasters are far too varied an AT for that to work. Unlike scrappers, you need to always be conscious of exactly which attacks will fit the situation and on which enemies to use them. Which mob do you stun/hold, while you take out others. Which enemy has to die first etc.
In terms of melee. I approach it like this. For some of my blasters, melee is where I go nuts. My elec/elec/elec for instance will prefer melee in many situations. Some blasters are melee light, but good enough that if a mob DOES get through, then I can give them some serious hurt. Like my DP/Ice.
My sonic/elec is pretty much my favorite blaster currently. He has an a wide cone AoE sleep. Nothing more needs to be said. Combine that with the smashing good fun of elec melee attacks and go wild!!
Anyway, in short, you might want to stop projecting so much of yourself into the AT that you become blind to its strengths and weaknesses.
I once soloed a +2 8-man Nemesis spawn with my Archery/Devices blaster when I got split from my team. I was level 39ish or so. One of the proudest blaster moments of my life as the Warhulk exploded(away from me) and my teammates rushed in to help...and found nothing but arrow-filled bodies.
Try my case, then.
Me: Hey, I'd like recommendations on a Blaster set, since I want to play like This solo.
A: Well, you could try the combination X/Y, it's good for that playstyle. Do this and this and this.
Me: Okay.
*some time later*
Me: Hey, I'm having problems even on Heroic (or +0/x1), even though I did this and this and this.
B: Why did you do all that anyway? You can't play that set like This, not unless you're in a team! You should have gone X/Z!
*more time later*
Me: I'm having problems with X/Z, does anyone have any suggestions? Heroic, solo.
C: Whoever recommended X/Z is a lying liar who lies. You should have gone for X/W.
I'm beginning to think that many players don't know what each Blaster secondary is for either.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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That's because they are for different things in different situations.|
Originally Posted by DKellis
Try my case, then.
Me: Hey, I'd like recommendations on a Blaster set, since I want to play like This solo. A: Well, you could try the combination X/Y, it's good for that playstyle. Do this and this and this. Me: Okay. *some time later* Me: Hey, I'm having problems even on Heroic (or +0/x1), even though I did this and this and this. B: Why did you do all that anyway? You can't play that set like This, not unless you're in a team! You should have gone X/Z! *more time later* Me: I'm having problems with X/Z, does anyone have any suggestions? Heroic, solo. C: Whoever recommended X/Z is a lying liar who lies. You should have gone for X/W. I'm beginning to think that many players don't know what each Blaster secondary is for either. |
One thing that people probably need to remove from their minds is that the blaster is a 'glass cannon'. The blaster is a precision cutting tool. You don't just aim it at a group of foes and have them all drop dead(although that is sometimes possible). You need to know where and how to strike and when.
I have a friend in the game who keeps complaining that her blasters are not as tough as her scrappers. But she keeps approaching fights like she is playing a scrapper. You cannot do that. It entirely depends on the situation and makeup of the enemy force you are fighting. That's not a strong rule for scrappers, brutes and tanks. It is, however, critical when playing a blaster.
If you leverage Defiance and always keep aware of your situation and enemies, you can do very well with a blaster. You will probably never be able to play as carefree as you do with a scrapper, brute or tank, but you can get the job done.
After ED hit, I was very pissed off about blaster performance, but the changes that came along with Defiance made blasters very playable again for me. This also applies to Dominators and their recent buff.
My fire/fire dominator is an absolute monster. I have to TRY to get myself killed with him these days. But I do not play him like a blaster or controller because dominators are neither. You have to control the fight perfectly with dominators too. The difference is that with a dominator, you have been given the tools for control from the get-go. Now with very decent damage output, dominators are another of my favorite ATs again.
My main problem with Blasters can be summed up as "if I miss, I die". The margin for error is a lot slimmer than any other AT I've tried except for Stalkers and Kheldians.
And my main problem with the advice I keep getting is the comment, eventually made, of "why aren't you in a team?" (Or variants, like "you really should be in a team", or "this only really works in a team".)
It's very weird.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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I generally don't team. And I play a lot of blasters.|
Originally Posted by DKellis
My main problem with Blasters can be summed up as "if I miss, I die". The margin for error is a lot slimmer than any other AT I've tried except for Stalkers and Kheldians.
And my main problem with the advice I keep getting is the comment, eventually made, of "why aren't you in a team?" (Or variants, like "you really should be in a team", or "this only really works in a team".) It's very weird. |
If someone is telling you to team as a solution to your problems, they are probably not worth worrying about as they don't have the insight you're looking for.
If someone tells you to try x/y combo and doesn't carefully explain why this combo would work to do what it is you want to do, then you need to find someone who can(provided what you want to do is feasible).
The odd thing is that from my own experience, I have much better results working things out for myself when I try a new powerset combo. Look, we have Real Numbers in the game now that tell us exactly what our powers do. But I'm still amazed at how many people attempt to understand a power simply by looking at the description only.
I use people's advice as a frame of reference. I can't tell you how many times people both in the game and on the boards have told me x power is the crappiest thing ever invented. Then a different set of people on the boards and in the game tell me that the same power is critical. I usually find that the actual truth for me is somewhere in between if not something else entirely. Chain Induction was a good example of this for me.
In the end, no one can tell you how best to play a blaster(or any AT) if what you think you should be able to do with one runs contrary to the strengths and weakness of the AT. You'll end up trying to reconcile two opposite points of view and have your head explode instead.
Sam, I apologize for offending you, It wasn't my intention to insult your intelligence or imply you're an idiot. I had a bad day yesterday and inadvertently took some of it out on you, so, I'm sorry.
Without multi-quoting through your entire response, I'll just try to answer the questions you put up as best I can... Mind you, I'm answering (and have been answering) your questions based on only MY personal playstyle and experience rather than on behalf of all blasters.
What build am I using? in most things I'll be referring to my Electric/Electric/Electric Blaster. I have others throughout the level ranges, but the E3 is currently my only level 50 blaster.
The damage aura in electric is the 3rd power pick, for fire they are 6th and 9th. In melee sets they are more or less all the 2nd power pick in the secondary.
Yes, you counted shocking grasp as an attack at one point, although you also said (as my interpretation was) that you don't take it.
I would agree with you that you don't have to stay in melee range in order to use all your powers, provided your attack chain doesn't consist of just melee powers, even damage auras have a decent range for the most part (discounting blazing aura). The attack chain on my E3 consists of all melee powers and 1 ranged TAoE, which I use in melee. I can also keep a fairly steady attack chain going with my T1/2/3 blasts if needed, though I'd be doing far less damage.
How do I define melee powers? Well, I agree powers with a 7ft range are melee, and I doubt anyone would say otherwise. But melee powers can also extend to 10ft, 15ft, and in extreme cases (like with Claws>Shockwave) 30ft... and still be considered melee powers. I personally consider any PBAoE's and damage auras as melee powers, along with all the standard punch/kick/slash attacks.
I agree, you don't NEED to use Ice Patch at the foot of your enemies. If I was using it, I would most likely use it in the way I described. That's not to say it's the Only way to use it. So no, I don't disagree with you.
I don't want to convert you to my way of thinking, I simply want you to acknowledge the fact that blasters can hang in melee for more than a few seconds, even on SOs. albeit not at any difficulty, but certainly at more than +0/x0. I'm also not disputing whether or not they can do it as well as scrappers, they can't, but they can do it none the less. I don't play every blaster in melee all the time, my psi/psi often hangs at range and goes in occasionally for things like Drain Psyche. My E3 on the other hand, spends virtually ALL his time in melee, unless there's a runner or I'm pulling.
I'd be happy to try and help you learn how to blap, PM me and let me know what server(s) you're on and hopefully I'll have something useful there. I moved my E3 to Victory (i think) during the free server transfer period, but I have some other blasters I've been attempting to set up for blapping, mainly a fire/electric, sonic/energy and a fire/energy at 12, 18 and 24, respectively... I haven't played them in a while (alt-a-holic by nature), but I'd be willing to dust them off, or even make a new one somewhere to try and help you out.
My "modus operandi" is basically just to have fun when I'm playing. If i need to use a power that makes stuff run away in order to survive and keep playing, then I'd rather do that than eat dirt. I don't really have a problem with dying or debt, but I really hate running back from the hospital 
I don't spend all my time worrying about whether or not I'm in melee either, I just play, if I need to be in melee then I am, it's really not an active consideration most times for me, it just happens. Even on toons I'm raising as blappers, I'll sometimes go a number of missions going into melee maybe 40-50% of the time. My E3 is in melee nearly all the time, and thats just the way he plays because I don't have many ranged attacks on him, so I pretty much play him like a scrapper with a few blast powers. he was, of course, a bit different before I respecced and added IO sets on him, but still spent quite a good bit of time in melee, probably at least 55-75% of time, as opposed to 85-95% now.
I will admit that on brutes and other "built specifically for melee" AT's enemies running away can be annoying at times, but the reason it's annoying is that I don't have anything to blast them with, I HAVE to run to them, on a blaster I don't.
I classify Stun as a melee attack, but it's purpose isn't damage, it's mitigation. Also, no, I wouldn't slot it for damage.
I don't believe I said you only play a fire blaster, if I did, sorry, I must have been in a daze.
I don't talk about Ice patch because I don't really have any personal experience with it. I do have experience with Electric, Fire, Energy and Mental, even a bit of Devices. I made a /Ice blaster some time ago, but It's still sitting around level 6 on one of the servers because I got swept up with something else and never went back, yet.
I'm also quite certain I never said blaster control mods were the same, or even similar to controllers... only that they get powers in the secondary that originally belonged to controllers' primary.
In order for Burn to be effective with Hot Feet, you really need to slot HF with a good amount of slows. I can probably agree with you that it's certainly not the most effective use of it, and most people hate Burn anyway... I personally find it most useful in conjunction with knockdown. My SS/FA brute uses it constantly along with foot stomp, or with KO Blow on bosses and it works quite well. It also works pretty well with Rain/Hail of Bullets using lethal ammo.
YRMV but WoC tends to confuse minions quite often on my Psi/Psi blaster when I choose to sit in melee with her, so yes, I count it as mitigation. As far as the stun component goes in Psychic Shockwave, I'll withdraw the statement, for now, as I borrowed the information from my Dom and hadn't thought of whether or not Domination has any effect on its duration.
Saying you don't use mitigation was my interpretation of your statements regarding powers like Shocking Grasp and Hot Feet not being "worth it" and was mostly just an observational guess, apologies if I stated it as a fact.
What I said regarding your use of Fire Sword Circle was more of an "if you're doing it this way, you're probably not hitting anything" and wasn't my intention to say that you DO use it that way... In comparison, My wife actually used to use it at 30-40-50ft away until I told her she had to be close... She isn't stupid, but sometimes people don't have to be stupid to do stupid things.
By "survive perfectly fine in melee" I'm not suggesting that blasters have the same durability as scrappers or stalkers. I realize that most posts regarding "blappers" make it seem like they never die, or die very rarely. I believe it's possible, and may even be the case for some, but in my experience that extrapolation is false. in some cases you're going to die and die often, and in others you're going to survive well for long periods of time through many missions, and others still, survive just barely.
You can combine other inspirations in order to make break-frees, I usually keep at least 2 handy.
I never said "don't fight mez-heavy enemy groups"... I personally just don't like Malta and Carnie Illusionists in particular, those aren't the only two mezzing groups in the game, by far, and in fact, I don't really have a problem fighting carnies, for the most part I just really, really hate the Illusionists because their phase is super annoying to me. Malta have tons of KB, and I have to constantly keep running back into melee range. On the other hand, rikti and more-so Lost have plenty of mez, so do CoT and Banished Pantheon (as well as some heavy debuffs).
I see SOs as a waste of money (and time) since IOs were introduced, I hate needing to re-enhance every 3 levels. however I'd gladly go through the trouble of making a second build on my E3 using Common IOs, if you're willing to pay for them. Honestly though, there's no way I could guarantee I could do those missions at that difficulty on SOs or Commons. As I said, I was dual-boxing with my emp when I did them, and further, I never claimed a solo blaster on SOs could do them at that difficulty... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be willing to try 
Guesstimating, I'd say it would probably be more do-able at +0/x3 or +1/x2, which I believe is the equivalent of the old "rugged" difficulty, but could be mistaken. I spent the majority of my levelling career on the E3 at "rugged" difficulty, but I'm not exactly sure what that equates to with the new difficulty settings. Currently my common difficulty for most of my alts is +0/x3 no bosses, and I believe that generates slightly larger spawns than "rugged" used to.
ON TOPIC (and sorry for being a part of massively derailing the thread topic
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Powers that only affect teammates do it for me. like in force field and sonic resonance, etc... especially force field. I have so much trouble getting into them, and I come out of it being bored playing them.
Stalker /Regen and /Willpower.
killed by NO QUICK RECOVERY FOR YOU.
lol, enjoy your wide open to pummeling regen/heal-based sets on a low-Health AT. Hope you have a high tolerance to getting splattered against the wall frequently...I'll enjoy using SR or Nin.
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I think it's more that even with the same powerset combos there are generally several valid ways to play the blaster, especially while solo. Some of it is situational but it's also based on your personal style.|
Originally Posted by DKellis
I'm beginning to think that many players don't know what each Blaster secondary is for either.
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I think Slashman really hits the nail on the head. Blasters have a lot more tools at their disposal than people give them credit for (with the exception of Fire Manipualtion anyway). I personally don't care for the tools provided in some sets (for example Energy Manipulation's reliance on melee range stuns or that Electrical Manipulation doesn't have any decent -recovery built in) but they do have them. The real trick is leveraging them to survive and in many ways that's dependent on your playstyle.
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Part of this is because while you can give me the Numbers and I can calculate everything myself, I can't actually decide whether I'd like the power until I take it, slot it, and use it.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
The odd thing is that from my own experience, I have much better results working things out for myself when I try a new powerset combo. Look, we have Real Numbers in the game now that tell us exactly what our powers do. But I'm still amazed at how many people attempt to understand a power simply by looking at the description only.
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Basically, I don't know what I want. I can look at Drain Psyche, and see that it has a certain PBAoE range, and decide that since it doesn't immediately heal me (but does give +regen), it has a duration significantly longer than its recharge even slotted, and its values don't seem to be useful for the small spawns I fight, I shouldn't even bother with it until I have everything else I want. But according to others, it's an amazing power even solo, and even if I don't like blapping. I asked specifically about this.
I still can't use it without feeling that I made a power pick mistake, since either I die anyway when I use it, or it does nothing for me.
And by all rights numbers-wise, my Fire/Elec attempt should be amazing and awesome, but I'm having more fun with my Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster. What bothers me is that all my Blaster attempts (Fire/Elec, Fire/Ice, Ice/Ice, Ice/EM, DP/Mental) still feel like I'm missing something important, since I fare much better with my Corruptors and Defenders and Controllers solo. (Haven't tried Dominators to a significant level, mostly because I am truly getting sick of redside contacts.)
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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Huh... OK, that'll work. That's where I have most of my Blasters, myself. PM-ing you now.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
I'd be happy to try and help you learn how to blap, PM me and let me know what server(s) you're on and hopefully I'll have something useful there. I moved my E3 to Victory (i think) during the free server transfer period, but I have some other blasters I've been attempting to set up for blapping, mainly a fire/electric, sonic/energy and a fire/energy at 12, 18 and 24, respectively... I haven't played them in a while (alt-a-holic by nature), but I'd be willing to dust them off, or even make a new one somewhere to try and help you out.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That neatly sums up what bugs me the most about Blasters. I remember someone once said something that went like this:|
Originally Posted by DKellis
My main problem with Blasters can be summed up as "if I miss, I die". The margin for error is a lot slimmer than any other AT I've tried except for Stalkers and Kheldians.
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When I play a Scrapper and I accidentally turn a blind corner into a boss, my reaction is "Oh, a boss. OK, I guess." whereas when I play a Blaster and turn a blind corner into a boss, my reaction is more like "ZOMG! OH, no! A boss! Aaah!"
And that really is how it works. With a Scrapper, if you screw up, you have ample time to do something about it, even if that's to use limited consumables. With a Blaster, if you screw up, you're ******, if you'll pardon my English. Miss a hold, you're dead. Mis-target Total Focus on the wrong guy, you're dead. Round a corner into an unexpected spawn... You're either dead or at least running for your life. Man... They're powerful, they really are, but... A lot of the time they don't FEEL powerful. Not as much as they fell when things go just that specific kind of right.
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By the way, here's one thing that just occurred to me, and which is probably the source of my hatred for damage auras - they drop when you get held. On an AT that has no status protection, you WILL get held. For Blasters, that's not as deadly as it used to be, since you can keep firing and kill the mezzer anyway, and you can always just use a Break Free. But no matter what you did, your damage aura dropped.
Here's my experience with Blazing Aura. I'd run into melee to try and use it, and I'd be blindsided by a stun almost immediately. It's a short-duration stun, of course, no more than a second or two. But here's the thing: both Blazing Aura and Hot Feet are now GONE. OK, Blazing Aura I can reactive, but at the cost of a 2.03 seconds of activation time... Nah, not my first priority. My first priority after waking up from a stun is either Blaze, Fire Sword or Fire Sword Circle. Or the flight instinct. But then we have Hot Feet, which I need to wait for for 20 seconds, and even then I have to wait for it to animate. Most often, I'll just finish the fight and THEN activate the two powers (if I don't forget). Thing is, next fight the same thing happens. I start it, I get blind-sided by a half-second enemy-interrupted sleep and both of my auras drop. AGAIN. And since I'm already sick of reactivating them, I leave them down till the end of the fight. Put them back on, get blind-sided by a stun on the next spawn, then pull my hair out.
I highly suspect that I wouldn't hate damage auras nearly as much if they just suppressed, rather than turning off entirely.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I never really looked into how others make their Blappers, but the one I have uses a lot of hit and run. He's Fire/NRG and I make a LOT of use of the KB in that secondary. I've only taken two from my primary and I try not to use those much (and I'm thinking about respecing one out if I can place it right). It's great fun for me, but I don't know about it at your setting, Sam. Maybe I'll test him out on that and see how he does.
EDIT: Oops, I guess I took three from my primary, but only two attacks (Fire Blast and Blaze). The other's Aim.
Dec out.
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I don't recall you specifically mentioning anything about Ignite, but I do recall the sudden turnaround in opinion on the power a few years back. One of the happiest moments of my AR teaming career was the day I discovered that Taunt overrides the avoid effect.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Web Grenade/Caltrops + Ignite. For some reason I don't recall anyone really harping on Ignite until I mentioned a couple years ago that Ignite has scale 5.0 intrinsic damage. Its smaller, but makes Burn look like Power Push.
People don't like it because of its long cast time, but Ignite deals a ridiculous amount of damage if you can just keep the target from running out of it. Like, Nova levels of damage. |
Then came the sad day the Devs realized that too and increased the recharge.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
The funny part is that as far as I can tell, Defender Ignite uses the same pet and deals the same damage. Application on a Traps/AR is left to the reader, but probably ends with AVs burned at the stake.
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Originally Posted by DKellis
My main problem with Blasters can be summed up as "if I miss, I die". The margin for error is a lot slimmer than any other AT I've tried except for Stalkers and Kheldians.
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That may be the problem. Blasters are NOT a safe AT to solo, ever.* They aren't particularly safe on teams either, unless you can rely on your teammates to be on the ball, all the time. If you don't like the high-risk playstyle, the AT might not be for you.
Incidentally, after playing Blasters so much my first Scrapper to 50 was /regen (if I misclick I die) and then I had a stupid amount of fun with /SR (if the RNG gods aren't appeased by my sacrifice of a billion zillion Rikti I die).
*With the possible exception of Sonic/Energy. Seriously, Siren's Song is practically cheating. At that point you're soloing like a Dom who kills faster.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Oh, if only I could handle the audio portion of Sonic to get to that point. So far I've made it 8 whole levels before all that screeching starts to do far more damage to me the player than to anything on the screen.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
*With the possible exception of Sonic/Energy. Seriously, Siren's Song is practically cheating. At that point you're soloing like a Dom who kills faster.
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God yes. Take Energy Meelee: Old favourite Blapper secondary. Also a fan favourite for hover-blasting types. Works extremely well for both playstyles.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I think it's more that even with the same powerset combos there are generally several valid ways to play the blaster, especially while solo. Some of it is situational but it's also based on your personal style.
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And that's just one secondary.
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| And that really is how it works. With a Scrapper, if you screw up, you have ample time to do something about it, even if that's to use limited consumables. With a Blaster, if you screw up, you're ******, if you'll pardon my English. Miss a hold, you're dead. Mis-target Total Focus on the wrong guy, you're dead. Round a corner into an unexpected spawn... You're either dead or at least running for your life. Man... They're powerful, they really are, but... A lot of the time they don't FEEL powerful. Not as much as they fell when things go just that specific kind of right. |
But that's EXACTLY what the AT is about! Screw up and you're dead. Nothing's gonna save you. You died? You screwed up, boyo. No excuses. Thanks for playing and try harder next time.
You know how Tanks are boooooring and sloooooooow? How Scrappers get called easy mode? That's the "feel" of each of those ATs. Blasters get "living on the edge" as their "feel".
WARNING: The above post contains hyperbole. Please consult your doctor before taking hyperbole. May cause rashes and irritation.
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Isn't that a bit overly dramatic? I mean is it anywhere near as bad as a drunken karaoke session for sailors on shore leave?|
Originally Posted by Primal
Oh, if only I could handle the audio portion of Sonic to get to that point. So far I've made it 8 whole levels before all that screeching starts to do far more damage to me the player than to anything on the screen.
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Seriously, I've never found sonic blast audio effects to be so annoying that I stopped playing what is otherwise a great(and under-estimated) blaster primary.
What kinds of sounds would you actually use for the set anyway? Pretty much anything you put there will sound weird when held against the theme. And all comic book sonic blasters I've seen have their blasts represented as loud and disorienting sounds.
Regarding Sonic Blast, the only sound effect that blows it for me is the wolf howl for Howl.
"Aaah! Get this coyote off me!"
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Oh, hey, this reminds me of something ON TOPIC |
Originally Posted by Godpants
Regarding Sonic Blast, the only sound effect that blows it for me is the wolf howl for Howl.
"Aaah! Get this coyote off me!" |
I've never had a powerset ruined for me by a single power (I just grumble a lot then I skip it), but Sonic Blast has been ruined to me because... It's just incredibly lame, in my eyes. I mean no offence to people who like it - to each their own. But to me, one of the WORST concepts is mouth-based blasts, and a whole powerset that's about shouting with your mouth is just... Well, stupid. Can't take it seriously, can't like it, can't play. I probably will at some point anyway, but not in the near future.
If I had the option to shoot my sonics out of a rifle like the Council sonic soldiers, I'd be there in a millisecond. Even something as simple as being able to shoot my sonics from my hands like how Spider-Man villan the Shocker does would be good enough, but shouting? No. Just no. Gonna' take an act of God to make me play it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, technically, the Shocker has more generic vibration powers than sonic, but point taken and agreed with. They're aping Banshee and those like him. On my Virtual Lad, I just assume it's coming from his helmet and he's pretending to yell, but then again, he's an AE only concept that's just "pretending" anyway, so it's kind of moot.
Dec out.
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Pardon me, Black Bolt is writing a message...|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
But to me, one of the WORST concepts is mouth-based blasts, and a whole powerset that's about shouting with your mouth is just... Well, stupid.
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He says he's sorry you feel that way.
(De gustibus non est disputandum, but I fully understand why the devs chose to make Sonic blasts come from the mouth. There's fairly significant precedent.)
@SPTrashcan
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Yeah, I understand why they did it, and I can't really fault them for it. But when and if we ever get Blast set customization, particularly in animation, I'd like to see Sonic Blast get an alternative to shoot from the hands. That alone would make me jump ship and make a Sonic Blaster.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
(De gustibus non est disputandum, but I fully understand why the devs chose to make Sonic blasts come from the mouth. There's fairly significant precedent.)
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Oh hey I should be on topic for a change.
Speed Boost is why I will never play a Kin. I can barely tolerate bubbling on a FF; a 90 second duration targeted ally buff is right out, and Kins that team and don't have SB are really only hurting themselves to a degree I wouldn't be able to ignore.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
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Basically, while you CAN look at this and conclude that the original Blaster attacks weren't living up to their designed intent and so they were driven closer to it, you can also view this as a case where the designed intent (i.e. Blasters scrapping for long periods of time) was simply flawed, the powers were viewed as useless, and so rather than scrap them like what happened to Gravity's T9 power, they buffed them until players saw them as useful.
This isn't really very different from what you suggested, but it has the benefit of suggesting alternate motivations, and as such, suggesting alternate original design. In fact, making useless powers useful is often as much an author's saving throw as it is an incarnation of prior design.
Ah, I got one! The original Moment of Glory was seen by many as not just useless, but actually debilitating to use, as I'm sure Evil Geko would agree. I don't really know what, the exact original design was, but it seems to have been intended to work similar to powers like Unstoppable, only with different drawbacks. When THAT bombed, Moment of Glory was turned into what has since been called "defence build up." I honestly wouldn't see that as enforcement of old design so much as salvaging a BAAAD power.
I kind of feel that that's what happened to Blaster melee attacks when they bombed in Beta, but of course, that's just assertions with no proof at this point.
By comparison, things like Super Reflexes got scaling resistances, defence debuff resistance, a decent T9 and a lower cost on Evasion, while Invulnerability got several incarnations of Unyielding Stance and later Unyielding with ever better stats and Regen go... Changed around a lot.
Seriously, for something that feels as rushed and slapped together as Blaster secondaries, you'd think more would have been done about them over the years.