Powerset killed by power _____

With DISPROPORTIONATELY enough preparation to the point where it crosses over from "not worth it" territory and becomes "are we there yet?"

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Oh yes it can! In fact, Devices is one of the few secondaries that actually does what you apparently want a secondary to do: help a Blaster solo by keeping enemies at range. And as I already mentioned, it has the single highest damage spike in the game by a wide margin - if you prepare. Which you have all the time in the world for, if you are soloing.

1. Yes I can. On a team. With buffs or debuffs from a Defender, and a Tank pulling the spawn together. Specialists do better on teams, especially if you build with that scenario in mind.
2. Damage auras actually deal enough damage to break even in terms of DPE on just one target. Check the numbers sometime - it's quite amazing.
3. Power Sink + Static Field is excellent mitigation.

If soloability is an important consideration, maybe a specialist AT designed to shine on a synergistic team is not for you.

VS actually used to have a shorter duration a while back. Before it was changed it was rather annoying. Now it has a 1 min. duration and gives you a 20% damage buff upon summoning thanks to "new" defiance, which is also the reason, I'd gather, why sparky can't be permanent or even on a longer timer... it would basically nullify the defiance buff from him.

Extending the duration of VS to four minutes would actually be to the detriment of the power, and electric blast as a set, IMO. Starting off a fight by summoning VS + BU + AIM nets you a near 200% damage buff for your first few attacks, and with decent recharge you can get that damage spike approx. every 30 seconds or so, which is a big help on a set that most people consider "sub-par" as a blast set.

Resummoning VS also helps in keeping a constant, good defiance buff FWIW. As battles drag on, like in AV fights, using VS+BU+AIM stacks with whatever defiance buffs you've accumulated through attacking, and each time you use it, you get an even higher spike damage buff.

Consequently, I respecced VS out of my build some time ago in order to get more protection for my blappery playstyle with him. At some point I'm going to find a way to put it back in though, maybe I'll just make use of his 2nd build for it

Something of a tangent here - Burn uses the Avoid effect whereas Hot Feet uses the Afraid effect. There are subtle differences in the systems as presented, though practical differences probably come down more to power setup than exact power effects.

That's kind of what I'm saying - Blasters are built to stay out of melee range (even if Hover does better than all the secondaries combined), so it just BAFFLES me what damage auras are doing there. And it's not just Blazing aura. I've actually tried to use these damage auras by deliberately going into melee to deal damage, and it took getting damn near insta-killed a few times until I realised I was putting myself in a HELL of a lot more danger than the added modicum of damage was ever going to be worth. I was then advised to combine it with Hot Feet for the Afraid effect, which then made enemies scatter away from my damage aura and made me go O.o

And what slays is me is there ARE terribly useful powers available to Blasters... In their Epics, that only open up long after you no longer need them because you've either deleted the character or fought your way through the pain.

Blaster secondaries just feel like they were thrown together from whatever was left off after the corresponding Blast set was constructed and the corresponding armour sets removed. Especially in things like Devices, it felt like they just ran out of ideas.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

That one is the biggest plus and bane of Kinetics. I love playing Kinetics because of how much it can add to a team, but I agree, the Speed Boosting of 7 other people (especially when they're never within range to Speed Boost without chasing them down) gets quite tedious. Of course, I still play Kinetics quite a bit, with over 300 levels of Kinetics, but man, I can't play it all the time.

I used to vigilantly watch the tiny buff icons for the flashing of Speed Boost wearing off, but now, I've done it so long, I just 'know' when it's about time to reapply. I guess you could argue it's no more tedious than using any other power, but with only 120 seconds duration, it sometimes feels like it's almost time to reapply Speed Boost, even if you just finished Speed Boosting the team not long ago.

This is frequently unnecessary and can significantly reduce your effectiveness, depending on build and circumstance.

One thing is certainly true: trying to make a blanket statement about Blaster secondaries is more or less futile. All Blasters can deal damage at range; what else they can do is determined in large part by their secondary (and how it synergizes with their primary), and varies considerably.

According to the "old" manual (mine covers Issues 1-6, which is far outdated), Blaster Secondary powersets are classified as Support. It also goes on to say, and I quote:

"Blasters have a superior set of crowd control capabilities in their secondary powerset. and, even alone, a blaster can be more than a match for several mobs at once - with the right strategy, of course"

It also says under the AT's Cons:

"Since you're primarily endowed with heavy-duty ranged attacks, melee combat is decidedly not your forte. While some blaster secondary power sets do feature melee options, you're better off, in almost every case, to only get one or two melee attacks and concentrate your power choices and slotting on ranged attacks (after all, you are not a scrapper or tanker)."

and...

"Blasters are made of tissue paper (relatively speaking), so if you're drawing too much aggro, retreat to the cover of the nearest tanker or scrapper within range and/or fly or superleap for the highest skyscraper for cover."


This is sound advice for someone new to the game, or even new to blasters, but as experience and playstyle preferences develop, some people are going to find that the melee options in blaster secondaries have a far superior damage potential than most, if not all, of the ranged attacks... so, even while the risk can be greater, the fun factor can be too.

I personally have the most fun while playing in melee range, surrounded by large mobs and surviving through it. I've tried my hand at melee AT's in consideration of this, and while I enjoy them somewhat, I can never get quite the same level of satisfaction with them. I prefer blasters, dominators and corruptors, and to a slightly lesser extent, controllers.

Regardless of what the manual says, (most) Blasters who only stay at range, IMO, are not living to their full potential... just because it's a blaster doesn't mean it's supposed to be at range all the time. Conversly, just because I prefer to be in melee most of the time, doesn't mean that I feel everyone else should be too... however I do feel that some are missing out on their full capabilities by never entering melee, some of the best tools from blaster secondaries are melee-range powers.

This statement is Completely fictitious, every blaster secondary has more melee powers than anything else, with the only exception being Devices. See below for a comprehensive listing of melee powers in blaster secondaries, as you can see for yourself, all blaster secondaries sport, at minimum, five melee powers out of 9, except Devices, which has one melee and three questionables. Granted that they aren't all primarily damage powers (i.e. attacks), but they are all Melee powers (again, foregoing the exception of devices).

Electricity Manipulation

Charged Brawl - Melee ST damage
Lightning Field - Melee PBAoE damage toggle
Havoc Punch - Melee ST damage
Lightning Clap - Melee stun/kb PBAoE
Thunder Strike - Melee damage/stun/kb PBAoE
Power Sink - Melee end-drain/end-recovery PBAoE
Shocking Grasp - Melee ST damage/hold

Fire Manipulation

Fire Sword - Melee ST damage
Combustion - Melee damage PBAoE
Fire Sword Circle - Melee damage PBAoE
Blazing Aura - Melee PBAoE damage toggle
Consume - Melee damage/end-recovery PBAoE
Burn - Melee damage PBAoE
Hot Feet - Melee PBAoE damage/slow/afraid toggle

Ice Manipulation

Frozen Fists - Melee ST damage
Ice Sword - Melee ST damage
Chilling Embrace - Melee PBAoE slow/damage-debuff toggle
Ice Patch - Melee PBAoE knockdown/slow
Freezing Touch - Melee ST damage/hold
Frozen Aura - Melee PBAoE sleep

Mental Manipulation

Mind Probe - Melee ST damage
Telekinetic Thrust - Melee damage/knockback
Drain Psyche - Melee PBAoE +regen/recovery foe -regen/recovery
World of Confusion - Melee PBAoE confuse toggle
Psychic Shockwave - Melee PBAoE damage/ foe stun/-recharge

Energy Manipulation

Power Thrust - Melee ST damage/knockback
Energy Punch - Melee ST damage/stun
Bone Smasher - Melee ST damage/stun
Stun - Melee ST damage/stun
Total Focus - Melee ST damage/stun

Devices

Caltrops - see note 2 below - Melee/Close-Range Damage TAoE
Taser - Melee damage/stun
Trip Mine - Melee PBAoE damage - (see note)
Time Bomb - Melee PBAoE damage - (see note)

NOTE- Devices Trip Mine and Time Bomb, while not technically Melee "use" powers, actually need an enemy in melee range of them in order to work after being placed. It also seems "toe-bombing" has become a fairly wide-use practice with devices, especially on teams, hence them being put into the Melee powers category.

NOTE 2- Caltrops has a much shorter range (25ft) than any TAoE I've seen in the game, but calling it a melee power is still quite a bit of a stretch... however, from the majority of times I've seen it used, it's been within melee range.

Hate to burst your bubble there, but that question has been answered. Blaster secondaries are intended as Support. Go dig out that manual and take a look

My personal opinion on the matter is that the manual is only half right. The majority of Blaster secondaries are built for Melee/PBAoE damage and soft controls (support) to help keep you, the blaster, and your teammates alive. None of the secondaries do just one thing... they're a mix of damage, soft controls and survivability tools, and are meant to compliment your choice of primary. (well, except Fire, which is pretty much a one trick pony)

The majority of blaster secondaries can deal gobs of damage to foes in melee range, and for a majority of the powers, their primary purpose is to deal damage, while providing mitigational "support" tools to help you survive.

So, my personal answer your question is, Blaster Secondaries are supposed to compliment your primary powerset and provide a number of tools for damage mitigation and overall survival, most blaster secondaries are also adept at dealing massive amounts of damage while in Melee range of enemies. Damage and Mitigation ability can vary depending on which specific secondary is in question... Some may deal more damage, like Fire Manipulation, whose primary mitigation is the ability to dispatch multiple weaker enemies quickly, while others are geared more toward control and survival, a-la Ice Manipulation... with plenty of tools to control when and how often your enemies can attack you.

or the tl;dr version, blaster secondaries allow you do deal additional damage while adding mitigational support for you and your teammates survival.

1. Blasters need a damage aura to deal more damage, dealing damage being their primary (and for the most part, singular) focus.

2. Anyone with a brain isn't going to jump into a mob and just stand there while they kill you... that's just dumb. I will however jump into a mob and proceed to pummel them in short order.

3. Yes, depending on your powersets and personal ability it would be perfectly survivable. If you need to use some inspirations, so be it...

My Elec/Elec doesn't have any problems most times, He spent the majority of his career in melee range while levelling, I've since respecced him as a blapper and Added some IO's to his repertoire, but he still did fine in melee on SO's... Same goes for the DP/Fire Blaster I played on test during beta. My Grav/Kin Troller, Earth/Psi Dom and Energy/Kin Corr also spent the majority of their careers in melee, as does my DP/Dark Corr I'm currently levelling, along with several other toons.

Obviously if you're in a situation where you're getting pummeled, you should back off and use ranged attacks or run until you get it back together. I don't spend every waking second in melee on all my alts, my Elec blaster can handle it for the most part, but others tend to dodge in and out of melee, setting up cones or what have you.

If you're going to be in melee on a squishie, you need to know which attacks draw the most aggro and when to use them, how much your alt can handle and what it can't, and know what enemy groups are bad for you so you can take extra care around them... Trial and error, and gradually pushing up the difficulty settings can usually give you a good idea of your limitations.

if you just jump in melee, damage toggles active, and start spamming AoE's like they're going out of style, or you don't wait for the aggro to be split with your team (i.e. go in first for the alpha), you're usually going to faceplant quickly.

You're counting a lot of things here that you shouldn't be. First of all, I don't recall saying that what Blasters lack is high-level melee POWERS, but rather high-level melee ATTACKS, and that's true. Total Focus is the only real one, and Shocking Grasp is about a half-way attack in terms of investment efficiency and stupid-long DoT. Furthermore, within the context of the discussion, I made the distinction between dashing in and out of melee and STAYING in melee for long periods of time. Almost all of those powers you mentioned can and really SHOULD be used with quick excursions into melee without the need to actually STAY there. This is usually limited to the animation time of the given power, but shrewd Blasters have been "jousting" to enable them to use melee attacks while effectively avoiding being in melee range with enemies pretty much at all.

Furthermore, you're counting a LOT of things as melee range that actually aren't. Specifically, PBAoE attacks ARE NOT MELEE, not unless you want to Nova as a melee attack, which it honestly isn't. Off memory, things like Lightning Clap, Combustion, World of Confusion and TIME BOMB are not melee range at all. Melee Range is defined as 7 feet away from your character, which damage auras like Blazing Aura ARE, but control powers like Frozen Aura ARE NOT. Hell, even Hot Feet is more than that.

Lastly, you CANNOT count pet summons as "melee" attacks. Not only are things like Time Bomb and Trip Mine not actually melee-ranged, but the concept of a melee attack is something that has to be used within melee range OF YOU, because it assumes that when an enemy is within melee range of you, you are within melee range of that enemy, thus imparting the danger of NPCs much stronger melee attacks. Melee range of something that not only isn't you, but isn't actually even attackable... Isn't melee range at all. I don't know about you, but I don't tend to drop my Ice Patch at the feet of my enemies. I drop it around a corner I expect them to come around, and then back out of it so they can't swing at me in-between bounces.

Seriously, what powers require you to STAY in melee range? More to point, what powers beyond Blazing Aura, Lightning Field, Chilling Embrace, World of Confusion and the like? In fact, let's do a bit of number-crunching to see why damage auras LOOK like a good investment, but actually aren't. Let's compare Fireball to Blazing Aura.

Fireball does about 3.708 points of damage to each unit of endurance cost and has a DPS value of around 3.312. Mind you, that's per target, so if you hit, say, three targets, both values triple.

Blazing Aura does about 7.128 points of damage to each unit of endurance cost and has a DPS value of around 5.560, again per target. So you'd think Blazing Aura would obviously be better, but I remind you - this is PER TICK. In order to get that kind of efficiency, EVERY TICK needs to catch enough targets and hit enough targets.

I'm gonna' eyeball it and say that a non-suicidal Blaster will only spend around a tenth of his time in melee. Yes, if you wanted to fire all of your secondary powers in quick succession, that would take some time, but let's take a less suicidal practice and go for just two at a time. Say Fire Sword and Fire Sword Circle. This gives you a time in melee of four seconds (exactly), assuming you go in, hit the powers and go out. Even with a bit of leeway for movement time, that only gives you two ticks on Blazing Aura, with the rest of the time spend running an aura which costs a not insignificant amount of endurance, but does nothing because enemies are out of range.

At a 10% time spent in melee, Blazing Aura actually has a DPE of around 0.7 and a DPS of around 0.56. You have to understand that the only reason Blazing Aura looks good on paper is because on-paper calculations assume you are always constantly in melee and hitting all targets... Which simply isn't the case. It's not the case in how I find it to be at all survivable, and it's not the case in how I see other people playing their Blasters, including people who are rather a lot better at survivng than I am.

Blasters are not Scrappers, but they more or less HAVE to play like Scrappers if they want a damage aura to be at all worth it. And considering damage auras have lengthy, rooting activations and long-ish recharges, toggling juggling with them doesn't really work.

Yeah, saying the powers are "support" is akin to saying that the man who mugged you was, in fact, a man. Yeah, that's useful to know, but it doesn't really say much, does it? Especially since there's practically NO support in Fiery Manipulation.

This does not even begin to be true. Disconouting Energy Manipulation, "the majority" of Blaster secondaries are very much not designed to deal damage. You counted a lot of non-damage powers in your "melee" list, but let's count attacks only. I'm instantly going to exclude T1 immobilize powers, because while these DO deal damage, their cost for doing is is absurd. You CAN use them for damage, but then you CAN use Beanbag for damage, or indeed you CAN use Soul Drain for damage. As in, you can, but why would you want to?

Fire Manipulation, the "damage" secondary, gets three - Fire Sword, Fire Sword Circle and Combustion. Consume does not count and Burn REALLY doesn't count. I mean, OK, I can give you a fourth power if you REALLY wanted a crappy Avoid damage patch and didn't mind wasting oodles of time that could be better spent on actual attacks, but four out of five is still not "the majority."

Ice Manipulation has two: Frozen Fists and Ice Sword. A few other things do deal damage, like Freezing Touch, but that IS NOT AN ATTACK. It deals far too little damage at far too high a cost with far too long a recharge. It's basically Brawl. In fact, Brawl has better DPS than Freezing Touch, and a zero cost.

Mental Manipulation has Mind Probe, Telekinetic Thrust, Scream and Psychic Shockwave, and I actually see Psychic Shockwave as the equivalent of Total Focus, a T9 attack that's out of norm. I have a bit of a hard time counting Scream, as that's a power which should have been in the PRIMARY (it's a Psychic Blast power), but somehow migrated in the secondary when they were proliferating, once again proving that what goes in the secondary is "whatever powers are left lying around."

Electric Manipulation... OK, I'll give you that. It has Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, Thunder Strike and Shocking Grasp, which while not a very efficient attack, is still very much an attack. And that's still four out of nine.

And I'm not even going to look at Devices, as you mentioned.

Basically, you have to count attacks that aren't attacks to get an impression that Blaster secondaries are mostly about damage. They're not. As a matter of fact, you can't even count damage auras, because their contribution is silly. If you get all ticks on all targets, maybe, but seriously - what kind of Blaster stays in melee with 10 people for 10-12-14 seconds to get a decent return? Because I can very much blast 10 people into dust in about three seconds FROM RANGE on your average Blaster. Seriously, if I can't get even JUST Fire Sword Circle and Combustion before I'm either in the red or in the dead, what use is Blazing Aura going to be when its range is shorter than BOTH powers?

Except they don't do that. You keep citing Fire as THE damage dealer, ignoring the fact that it's really not. You have Fire Sword, which is the only decent damage power in the set. Fire Sword Circle is both slow and not very strong and Combustion is EVEN SLOWER. They'e not bad AoEs, but unless you go Mental Blast, your primary AoEs are better and SAFER. Basically, unless you're Electric or Energy, the damage your secondary deals is incidental. It's not BAD, but it's more than made up for by the risk you take to deal it, especially when it's AoE AND SLOW AS HELL.

And as far as adding mitigation... They don't really do that, either. Yes, Ice Manipulation kind of does, Devices doesn't do a whole lot else (or a whole lot in general) and I'd be hard-pressed to say Mental does. But Energy Manipulation? Electric Manipulation? The only mitigation they have is an orphaned status effect, and in the case of Electric, a mag 2 one that doesn't even catch lieutenants. I can get more mitigation out of that from Munitions Mastery... Or Force Mastery, or Electrical Mastery... Or practically ANY Epic pool that Blasters get access to.

So your argument is that because it deals ANY amount of damage, Blasters need it? Brawl deals damage. Do they need that enough to have it as part of their secondary?

Yeah, if you intend to do that with SECONDARY attacks, I dare say that's pretty ambitious. Discounting the fact that Fire is the only one with meaningful AoE in its secondary, even that doesn't have enough punch to kill sufficiently meaningful enemies before they kill you. And if you think I'm looking at enemies that are too hard, these are the same enemies I can take out at range with relatively little trouble. And if you think you'll jump in and use mitigation... WHAT mitigation? Outside of Lightning Clap, you have no AoE mitigation in any secondary, and even Lightning Clap will just scatter enemies and make it impossible to kill them before they wake up. It's not exactly long-duration. And even then, it won't stun lieutenants, which if you happen to meet a Mentalist, will tend to kill you in pretty short order.

"Depending on your personal ability" is a pretty... Unconvincing argument. Specifically since it depends most of all on BUILD. Inventions build, more specifically. And if I need to use some inspirations AND DON'T HAVE any because I needed to use some inspirations on every fight in the entire mission and I simply ran out, what then? Run out to buy more and sink ten minutes into that? How many times per mission?

Furthermore, if we're going to be feeding on inspirations constantly, then my Scrapper is going to ANNIHILATE the same enemies without even noticing they are there, because he's currently capable of facing them without inspirations. It's a REALLY bad argument when you compare Blasters with inspiration use and other ATs without inspiration use. And if you compare them with inspiration use, Blasters come far behind. And I've looked.

What are you fighting that doesn't insta-hold you or two-shot you? Because even basic sapwns of Nemesis and Rikti enemies basically kill me before I can get a word out if I come into melee range of them. Nemesis lieutenants, especially, who don't stun from Lightning Clap, whom you DO NOT want to kill first, and who both stun you AND deal a ton of damage with their bayonets. And who, might I add, keep spawning in twos, and on one particular day insisted on spawning in threes.

Yes, I'm sure proper aggro management will save my life when I'm all by myself with nothing else for the enemies to aggro on in the first place. And please, let's stay out of the "just get a team" arguments here. If I wanted to get a team to do my fighting for me, I wouldn't even spare a thought about what I'm actually doing to build my character. Teams in this game scale in power so severely you could get eight blind monkey's together and they'll be just fine unless they decide to crank the difficulty up beyond reason or logic. Obviously, playing Blapper on a team with people to pull my *** out of the fire is easy. It's easy because I could be NOT PLAYING on that same team and the difference in spawn-to-spawn speed would hardly register.

"I could as well fall asleep" is not a good basis for power comparison. OF COURSE if there's someone to get attacked instead of me, it'll be easy to do. I'm talking about when all the fire is coming at YOU for lack of anywhere else for it to go. All other ATs seem to be able to do this, including ones that aren't really intended to be. All the ones I've played certainly can. Only Blasters can't, not really, not without crutches and cheats.

And again - if you want a decent test of merit, try fighting the Praetorians. Say, pick Siege's minions, decent-sized spawns of them. And when 10 people hit you with simultaneous Power Bursts, let me know how that goes. Because that exact situation is what made me rage-quit the last time I played one of my 50 Blasters.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You're not constantly using up endurance running another toggle. That makes it worth remembering to click to me.

How does one abuse inspirations, exactly? They drop so you can use them. Careful management of inspirations =/= abuse.

One-second activation and a hold that can stack with holds from your primary and your APP make the stupid-long DoT worth it.

You fire off a power, it roots you, the enemy takes a step forward and melees you. Might as well be melee range.

It is still a PBAoE, regardless of how you, personally use it.

Didn't you just say World of Confusion wasn't melee range? Now I'm confused.

Ok, so Mental Manipulation has a bunch of powers that do damage but they don't count as powers that do damage? Must be that World of Confusion aura going off again, because now I'm very confused.

According to Mids, Shocking Grasp does 100 damage for a 1-second cast time, while Total Focus does 198 for a 3.3 second cast time. Please explain to me your definition of "efficient."

Fire Sword Circle: 99.5 damage. Fire Breath: 109.8 damage. Both have the same cast time, and Fire Sword Circle's damage is mostly upfront rather than the DoT of Fire Breath. I agree with you that Combustion sucks.

Energy Manipulation: Fast-recharging knockback, (cause, you know, some people don't want to be in melee with some enemies), two powers with guaranteed mag 3 stun and two with a chance of stun, and a power that increases the duration of said stuns. And if you still think range = mitigation you have an easily perma-able power that helps you stay there.

Electric Manipulation: Two powers with a chance of sleep, one of which also has a chance of knockback. One power with guaranteed PBAoE knockback and a chance of stun. One power, that you hate so much, with a guaranteed hold. One power with high End drain, which combined with the other powers in the set (including the one you hate so much) can drain a boss in short order.

Ice patch. I've been told Hot Feet is mitigation. World of confusion. Shiver. Thunderstrike. If you're /Electric and you meet a Mentalist, well you should have taken Shocking Grasp, shouldn't you?

Funny, I managed to play Blasters in melee, as did a lot of other people, long before inventions and Defiance 2.0.

I'm fighting Carnies, Malta, Cimerorans, Council, CoT, and Rikti and Nemesis too. I've fought every enemy in the game at some point with a ranged/melee Blaster. On Unyielding or Invincible. Before Inventions. If you're getting "instant-killed" by basic spawns you need to either learn to play or stop exaggerating. I'm guessing it's the latter.

If you're putting yourself in a position to be hit with 10 simultaneous Power Bursts, then you really need to go home and think long and hard about how not to be in that position. And if you HONESTLY think you could survive that if you were playing a Defender or Controller, then maybe you should go home and think long and hard that maybe the Blaster AT just isn't for you.

100% agreed.

PBAoE and / or "Affect My Team while they're within X ft" would have been the way to go. As is, playing a 'buffer' ...

*Ahem* Isn't for me. Let's say that.

Needing several inspirations EVERY FIGHT is abusing them, because they simply don't drop that fast. Most ATs can run around with only having to "resort to" inspirations from time to time. Blasters are the only AT that I am continually told to just use inspirations all the time on, and it has actually been suggested to me that I drop out of a mission to go buy more.

Against... 10 enemies? Care to elaborate?

Ooor... You take Hover. When enemies aren't running hopelessly in circles underneath you, they're forced to use ranged attacks. So, no.

I don't recall ever saying PBAoE powers aren't PBAoE powers, I merely said that not all of them count as melee. In fact, I dare say not more than half of them do. The reason I say this is that if you can hit an enemy with a power from outside his melee range, you're not using a melee power.

I might have, but if I did, it was wrong. I lost the post several times, so it's possible I left a few mistakes from one of the re-writes. At one point I DID say World of Confusion didn't count as melee, but that was before I checked its range. I went back to weed it out of the post, but I could have missed a spot.

"Powers that deal damage" is not the same as "attacks." Beanbag deals damage. Taser deals damage. Tesla Cage deals damage. They are still not attacks. So if we're counting the number of powers in Manipulation secondaries that deal damage, then that number is rather a lot higher, but it's also meaningless because things that "just deal damage" are actually useless for the most poart. The only things that are useful for their damage are actual attacks, or in the case of Controllers, the next best thing.

Speaking of World of Confusion, yes it deals damage... Just about.

OK.

Total Focus deals 197.97 points of damage and costs 18.51 endurance points, giving it an efficiency of around 10.694 points of damage to the endurance point used. Shocking Grasp deals 101.16 points of damage and costs 18.2 points of endurance, giving it an efficiency of only 5.558, or roughly that of Fireball, only fireball hits multiple targets and tends to generate multiple times that efficiency.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Fire Breath is not a power from Fire Manipulation. Yes, Fire Sword Circle is a decent AoE... It's also AoE, and is balanced as such, both in terms of recharge and in terms of cost. I don't feel like running another full set of numbers right now. Are you suggesting that Fire Sword Circle has the efficiency of a single-target attack? That could be interesting if it were true.

I should have a spreadsheet for a Fire/Fire/Pyre Blaster somewhere, but I don't think I have access to it here. Never mind, found it. And it sucks. Don't have "per activation" stats on it, but I can already tell that Fire Sword Circle's endurance efficiency is less than half that of Fire Sword and its DPS is between a third and half of that of Fire Sword. Doesn't look good if you care about endurance.

Fast-recharging knockback that's single-target. The stuns, at least, last for a while, and I actually DID forget about the stun in Total Focus, you have me there. On paper, that's how it ought to work. I'm not sure why I don't remember it working that way when I played it...

Are you seriously counting chance to SLEEP as meaningful mitigation? Most people wouldn't count guaranteed high-mag sleep, let alone random chance to sleep. And as far as Thunder Clap goes, its knockback does fat lot of good. Yes, it knocks a spawn back, but it also scatters it making AoE less effective and, really, what have you achieved? You've delayed the enemies by two seconds. The stun on that power is worth more than that unenhanced.

As far as Lightning Field is concerned, it's probably one of the few damage auras I'd be willing to actually take and use... But not for the damage.

I'll grant you Ice Patch, but Hot Feet? Yeah, I was told it's mitigation, too. It isn't. I'd give you World of Confusion if it actually did ANYTHING. Pity it actually doesn't. A low-mag confuse effect that hits at .6 base to-hit, lats half the power's cycle and doesn't even do much when it lands is pretty much nothing. And the damage on it isn't even worth talking about. The end cost isn't bad, though.

I wouldn't count Thunder Strike as mitigation, because it isn't. It has a chance for knockback and its damage on the AoE scale is laugable. It may stun, but it only stuns what you hit.

And as far as that Mentalist goes, I'd love a world where I could casually walk up to a Chief Mentalist and give him a Shocking Grasp before he's hit me with Mesmerise from range, but that just doesn't happen when I play. And even supposing I COULD do that. What do I do about the other Mentalist that spawned right with him? And, yeah, that happens. It's always happened. I still have nightmares of double Malta TacOps spawns back before the Defiance changes.

In melee the whole time in long fights? I'd really like to see that. See what I'm doing wrong. But the last person who showed me a FRAPS video of that had capped ranged defence and I believe 30 or 40% melee defence. I usually don't, what with Inventions not being mandatory and all that.

Well, then I'd like to know what you're doing that I'm not, or possibly what you're not doing that I am. Because every time I walk in melee, all the enemies fire up their melee attacks they had been saving and I lose half my hit points. That's what got me to stop trying to use Combustion in the first place.

Yeah... Every one of Siege's minions, lieutenants and bosses has Power Burst. Every one of them. That's what they open with. And when I'm facing a spawn of around 8 minions and 2 lieutenants, I very much AM on the receiving end of ten Power Bursts. Seriously, go fight them yourself and you'll see what I mean.

And I actually don't know what Defenders and Controllers could survive. I don't think they would, but people are constantly beating their chests about how they're tanking 8-man spawns on their Controllers and Defenders, so I figure there must be something to it.

I will freely admit that it looks like the Praetorian's henchmen break the usual rules of how many of what power are available to each enemy rank, but again - they are in the game in several very large, very long, VERY TEDIOUS missions each.

I'm actually talking about the mission to beat Siege at the top of the that tall tower in one of the industrial complex outdoor instances. I finished that mission, killed practically all of the robots there were to kill, beat up Siege himself and completed my objective. Only it took me two hours on the clock and many more deaths than I'm comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I'm not dismissing team performance. I just don't accept "get a team" as a valid fix for the problems a solo Blaster faces. That's just an extension of my general dislike of the "get a team" response to ANY complaint whatsoever.

Yes, I'm well aware that if there are other people for the enemies to attack, a Blaster will have a much easier time. It kind of goes without saying that if the enemies aren't attacking you, you're not going to die. Having someone else for the enemies to attack is, however, not an option as I'm not rich enough to own my own slave and the game doesn't seem very willing to provide AI bots every time I ask for one.

Blaster team performance is fine, but team performance for all ATs is more or less fine because teams are generally overpowered against normal content. There's really no point in discussing the obvious when it doesn't actually help.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It's a very common response whenever I try to roll a Blaster.

"Hey, I'd like to roll a Blaster to try getting it to 50, but I solo exclusively. How are Blasters solo?"

"They're great! You have to be a bit more careful, but Blasters can definitely solo well."

*some time later*

"Hey, so based on your recommendations for a good solo secondary, I picked Mental Manipulation, and I'm not sure how Drain Psyche works. It doesn't seem all that impressive."

"Are you hitting groups of enemies with it?"

"I'm not jumping into groups of more than three enemies at once, if that's what you're asking."

"Why not?"

"Because I get hit by all of them and die."

"You shouldn't be. What's the Tanker doing?"

"I'm solo. No Tanker."

"Solo? Why are you playing a Blaster solo? Go play a Dominator."

It happened several times. I don't really know why.

Yeah, no. No, thank you. That's not how things work.

Especially since trying to play a Dominator like a Blaster gets you killed. A lot. I tried. And I died. A whole lot. I asked Dominator veterans what to do, and was given bizarre advise like leaving mid-mission to go build up Domination, immobilising things so I can run away and rest, altering my difficulty so I'm fighting fewer things of a higher level (thereby removing any fun to be had in the game) and generally things that made me scratch my head big-time. If THAT is what it takes to play a Dominator well, then I want no part in it.

Besides, Dominators just aren't for me. I can admit it when an AT just isn't fun for me and when I just can't play it well. I try to play them like Blasters and I die. People tell me to build them like Controllers first, and I just remind myself why it is that I never wanted to play Controllers in the first place. Their playstyle just bores me. I don't know how much slotting I'm supposed to give to my control powers, but I do know that by the time I have enough spare to slot my attacks I'd have lost interest in the character twice-over.

'Sides - no nukes, no ticket.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Interestingly I'm the opposite: I like playing Controllers, and fighting fewer things of a higher level, mostly because I want to know where everything is and what everything is doing. Fighting fewer enemies makes me feel better, or rather neater, than blasting lots of enemies all over the place. (Higher levels is just for a better rate of XP.)

I can't play Dominators because they feel like less effective Controllers. I keep expecting Containment to go off (possibly doesn't help that my first Controller to 50 was Illusion/Radiation), and I keep wondering where my debuffs are.

Domination falls under my problem with Inspirations: I don't do well under pressure, since I panic easily, and I always forget that I have Domination built up. I've tried firing it off whenever I have it (assuming there are enemies in sight, of course), but I keep feeling that I'm wasting it, when I could be saving it for a boss or something. Of course, when I fight a boss, I don't use it, in case there's a stronger boss fight coming up soon.

To bring it back to the topic, an entire AT is, if not killed, then at least discouraged for me, due to the AT power.

Also, I'm really tired of villainside contacts treating me like dirt. At least heroside, even if they send you on the same sort of missions, are polite about it.

Maybe I'll try a Dominator again for GR.

How does the latter follow the former? Is this only in the case of Blasters? Of all Blasters, or of some? Does it also apply to all Dominators?

Please elaborate.

But they don't do better solo! Not for me, anyway. I gave them a try (more so than I've given to any other AT "I don't like") and I just couldn't force myself to play them. On this one, I can admit that I suck because I know I'm doing something wrong. But here's the rub - from what I understand it, I don't want to do what it takes to play Dominators right. It's not fun for me. Same way I probably COULD play Defenders, but I just WON'T. Not how I like to play.

Outside of the obvious (that is to say Scrappers, Brutes, Stalkers and Masterminds), Blasters are the next best AT I've found at soloing. They move fast (faster than Scrappers by a fair margin), they're not boring like Tankers are, they're not tissue paper like Corruptors are... And they have Aim + Build Up Really, I'm sure other ATs are safer than Blasters, but they just bore me to tears, Tankers especially, or stress me out to the point where I feel like a two-dimensional loser. Not what I want out of my games.

I'm not saying I CAN'T play Blasters solo. I very much can. Somehow, I ended up with two of them at 50 without realising it, and more are on their way. So it's not like they're BROKEN. It's just more... Stressful to play them than practically everything else I could be playing.

'Course, just as I'm typing this my 41 Sword/Regen Scrapper is getting MURDERED by Malta and Crey, but I managed to get by without too much real trouble. I'm seeing more incoming damage than I remember.

That's not quite what I said, though. My biggest beef with Blasters is that their Secondaries are just a frikkin' mess of leftover powers that could have been a LOT better. Seriously, every secondary has at least one power that's useless, and some have multiple.

And I STILL want to see damage auras gone. Even if that leaves them with 8 power picks. Seriously.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.